But. But, we are bringing the entire band back for another year of coaching. Are you saying Belichick > Fox & The Logg?
I'm saying every qb that has ever been in that system has looked like world beaters an then went on to do squadoosh.
And beside the fact that none of that makes any difference since they weren't all of the same talent level going in it's not even a true fact. So I have you down as a no and thanks for playing but we aren't inviting you back to play again because this game requires an open mind and insight. You my friend are nothing but false rhetoric. Have you considered running for President.
I know, I'm just trying to joke about it. If we don't laugh a bit I think we'd cry this season :-)
I wanted the Bears to draft Jimmy, but having to overpay now for the mistake of not drafting him in the past is a bad idea; just like waiting until Cutlers out the door to try and draft a qb was. Now the Bears just have to deal w/their mistake and draft a qb this year; in the first 2 rounds.
If we can get him for close to the value of the same second round pick we'd have had to use to use to draft him to begin with what about that part is overpaying for him? No one is talking about sending the #3 overall pick to NE for him. So explain that to me? What's overpaying mean?
He was drafted at the end of round two so if his trade value is somewhere around a late #1 to an early #2 that's the bonus NE gets as repayment for his development and it's reasonable. If the shoe was on the other foot you'd be saying the same or at least I think you would. Some days I don't know.
So "splain it to me Lucy. How does spending a 2nd or maybe as high as a future 1st for Jimmy G become overpaying when Trubisky will cost us our #3 overall IF he's the top rated passer this year AND SF doesn't take him first.
This is all just hypothetical shit that won't even get close to be real for months but I want to see where you're going with this logic or lack thereof.
And that was never in the cards as a price I would even suggest we pay nor do I see anyone else even coming close to that either. If they do then Cutler is surely worth as much or more. He has played more than two NFL games.
I wanted the Bears to draft Jimmy, but having to overpay now for the mistake of not drafting him in the past is a bad idea; just like waiting until Cutlers out the door to try and draft a qb was. Now the Bears just have to deal w/their mistake and draft a qb this year; in the first 2 rounds.
I agree, except for one thing here. While we should have done it, he is probably more valuable now having worked with the Pats and Brady than if he had come here. May be some added value there. 1st and 4th? I don;t think that makes sense for us, but honestly depending on what your 1st and 4th is as well as how bad you need a QB, I don;t think the price is unreasonable. If he really will part for that, I think someone will bite.
All of this makes sense but Ric's logic tank is on empty and his "don't confuse me with facts" is in overdrive so I'm not accepting being flipped off with nonsensical excuses like the ones he's been using.
First I want his definition for overpaying and second I'd like to know why it's a good idea to compound one mistake (not drafting him) with a second mistake of not trading for him if the price is right and he's still the guy you liked from two years ago.
Here's the disconnect in Ric's thinking.
He wanted to draft him two years ago and that would have cost us a high second round pick we shouldn't spend that or a bit more now for a more experienced version of him because we should know that Belicheats system ruins QB so they all fail when playing elsewhere. Maybe he implants a device in the base of their skulls that makes that happen. Ya think? LOL
I'm not sure I know what to think anymore except I'm glad he lives closer to you then to me. He's got me worried.
Thank you for some intelligent sober thoughts. I was beginning to think I was back in rehab again listening to drunks rationalize why they drink.
The very idea of trading for Garoppolo only works if the price isn't too steep which is why I posted an entire thread that showed what the #1 and #4 Minny paid for Bradford were actually worth in draft capital points = 812. That's roughly equivalent to a later (20th or lower) 1st round pick or a 2nd and 3rd with maybe a 5th in return or a current 2nd and a future 2nd. Who really knows and we won't until it actually happens....if it happens.
It's not our 1st (2200 points) or even Cleveland's #10 pick (1300 points). It's far less than that if that's NE's asking price and because it came from the mouth of Adam Schefter we don't even know how accurate that is. So for those of you who still believe it means our #3 overall pick and our 4th round pick or anything even close to that thank you for NOT taking time to read and understand the base line info a already gave to base intelligent debate on.
So what I get from this poll is that roughly 80% might actually favor spending the same or far more draft capital on an unproven college QB than a QB whose had some decent development in one of the best offenses in the NFL, who actually has significant pro game tape that can be evaluated, who has been part of a winning tradition both in college and the pros, and who has all or most of the traits we're looking for at QB many of which some say Cutler does not. And you still don't want him huh? Hoo boy.
Well then just who do you want because you're all beginning to sound like my ex with this "don't confuse me with facts my mind's made up" shit. I stopped trying to deal with no win deal years ago so I'll let you all decide.
STRENGTHS Has a very quick trigger and good wrist snap that translates to a smooth throwing motion and clean, compact delivery (no windup). Lightning release quickness. Urgent decision maker. Sells play-action. Athletic enough to slide in the pocket and buy time with his feet while keeping his eyes downfield. Good anticipation -- throws his receivers open. Can change ball speeds and drop it in a bucket. Does not take unnecessary sacks and will dump the ball. Will deliver the ball looking down the barrel of a gun. Tough-minded and poised in the pocket -- can withstand a hit and pop back up. Highly competitive. Smart, respected, vocal team leader. Very durable, experienced, four-year starter. Good football intelligence.
Call it the "Dak effect" this year, Soul. Posters see what Dak has accomplished (with a LOT OF HELP I would add), know we could have drafted him, and feel like we can just make up for that "miss" (he was passed on by all 32 teams over 120 times, people forget that) in this years draft.
That MAY be true, but it's also exceedingly unlikely. The "Dak scenario" only happens once a decade or so, if even that often.
Thank you for some intelligent sober thoughts. I was beginning to think I was back in rehab again listening to drunks rationalize why they drink.
The very idea of trading for Garoppolo only works if the price isn't too steep which is why I posted an entire thread that showed what the #1 and #4 Minny paid for Bradford were actually worth in draft capital points = 812. That's roughly equivalent to a later (20th or lower) 1st round pick or a 2nd and 3rd with maybe a 5th in return or a current 2nd and a future 2nd. Who really knows and we won't until it actually happens....if it happens.
It's not our 1st (2200 points) or even Cleveland's #10 pick (1300 points). It's far less than that if that's NE's asking price and because it came from the mouth of Adam Schefter we don't even know how accurate that is. So for those of you who still believe it means our #3 overall pick and our 4th round pick or anything even close to that thank you for NOT taking time to read and understand the base line info a already gave to base intelligent debate on.
So what I get from this poll is that roughly 80% might actually favor spending the same or far more draft capital on an unproven college QB than a QB whose had some decent development in one of the best offenses in the NFL, who actually has significant pro game tape that can be evaluated, who has been part of a winning tradition both in college and the pros, and who has all or most of the traits we're looking for at QB many of which some say Cutler does not. And you still don't want him huh? Hoo boy.
Well then just who do you want because you're all beginning to sound like my ex with this "don't confuse me with facts my mind's made up" shit. I stopped trying to deal with no win deal years ago so I'll let you all decide.
STRENGTHS Has a very quick trigger and good wrist snap that translates to a smooth throwing motion and clean, compact delivery (no windup). Lightning release quickness. Urgent decision maker. Sells play-action. Athletic enough to slide in the pocket and buy time with his feet while keeping his eyes downfield. Good anticipation -- throws his receivers open. Can change ball speeds and drop it in a bucket. Does not take unnecessary sacks and will dump the ball. Will deliver the ball looking down the barrel of a gun. Tough-minded and poised in the pocket -- can withstand a hit and pop back up. Highly competitive. Smart, respected, vocal team leader. Very durable, experienced, four-year starter. Good football intelligence.
Call it the "Dak effect" this year, Soul. Posters see what Dak has accomplished (with a LOT OF HELP I would add), know we could have drafted him, and feel like we can just make up for that "miss" (he was passed on by all 32 teams over 120 times, people forget that) in this years draft.
That MAY be true, but it's also exceedingly unlikely. The "Dak scenario" only happens once a decade or so, if even that often.
I know you know this (I'm not insulting your intelligence here). The last 10 years of drafts have yielded some very good QB's that were passed over in the 1st round. The other day I was bored and went back through the past 50 or 60 draft years, just looking over some of the great players who were drafted in later rounds. Obviously the 1st round yields a better percentage of hits. But so many great players were not in that 1st round.
It isn't easy to draft good players. Not at any position, not just the QB position. But good teams find good players in the draft anyway. You don't have to "buy" a QB from another team. I'm not saying you never should do like we did with Jay Cutler. Sometimes if you can't draft then, yes, you may have to depend upon another team's castoffs. I get that. And maybe this Garoppolo move is our best move. But maybe not.
I gotta admit, I LOL about that comment regarding Dak "having a lot of help" in Dallas. No offense, but Garoppolo has been playing for Bill Belichick on the New England Patriots. A team as loaded (coaching and players) as any team in the NFL.
I guarantee you that if we do bring Garoppolo here he's not going to "have a lot of help" here :-)
He may not shine like some people believe. John Fox is not Bill Belichick. Our offense isn't New Englands. We are not the Patriots.
Also, there could be a kid in this upcoming draft that ends up having a better career than Garoppolo.
Call it the "Dak effect" this year, Soul. Posters see what Dak has accomplished (with a LOT OF HELP I would add), know we could have drafted him, and feel like we can just make up for that "miss" (he was passed on by all 32 teams over 120 times, people forget that) in this years draft.
That MAY be true, but it's also exceedingly unlikely. The "Dak scenario" only happens once a decade or so, if even that often.
I know you know this (I'm not insulting your intelligence here). The last 10 years of drafts have yielded some very good QB's that were passed over in the 1st round. The other day I was bored and went back through the past 50 or 60 draft years, just looking over some of the great players who were drafted in later rounds. Obviously the 1st round yields a better percentage of hits. But so many great players were not in that 1st round.
It isn't easy to draft good players. Not at any position, not just the QB position. But good teams find good players in the draft anyway. You don't have to "buy" a QB from another team. I'm not saying you never should do like we did with Jay Cutler. Sometimes if you can't draft then, yes, you may have to depend upon another team's castoffs. I get that. And maybe this Garoppolo move is our best move. But maybe not.
I gotta admit, I LOL about that comment regarding Dak "having a lot of help" in Dallas. No offense, but Garoppolo has been playing for Bill Belichick on the New England Patriots. A team as loaded (coaching and players) as any team in the NFL.
I guarantee you that if we do bring Garoppolo here he's not going to "have a lot of help" here :-)
He may not shine like some people believe. John Fox is not Bill Belichick. Our offense isn't New Englands. We are not the Patriots.
Also, there could be a kid in this upcoming draft that ends up having a better career than Garoppolo.
I can almost guarantee you that there will be. All we have to do is one simple thing. Know who that is. If you can't do that (as teams prove consistently every year), then you drop back into the realm of mortal men and you have to try evaluate Garoppolo on what he has done, what me may do in your organization, what you think others that you can draft can do and put that against what you have to give up to get him. In other words, about 5 factors that you really don't know vs. one factor you don't know in the draft. But still.... you have SOME pro history with him and so the allure...
I know you know this (I'm not insulting your intelligence here). The last 10 years of drafts have yielded some very good QB's that were passed over in the 1st round. The other day I was bored and went back through the past 50 or 60 draft years, just looking over some of the great players who were drafted in later rounds. Obviously the 1st round yields a better percentage of hits. But so many great players were not in that 1st round.
It isn't easy to draft good players. Not at any position, not just the QB position. But good teams find good players in the draft anyway. You don't have to "buy" a QB from another team. I'm not saying you never should do like we did with Jay Cutler. Sometimes if you can't draft then, yes, you may have to depend upon another team's castoffs. I get that. And maybe this Garoppolo move is our best move. But maybe not.
I gotta admit, I LOL about that comment regarding Dak "having a lot of help" in Dallas. No offense, but Garoppolo has been playing for Bill Belichick on the New England Patriots. A team as loaded (coaching and players) as any team in the NFL.
I guarantee you that if we do bring Garoppolo here he's not going to "have a lot of help" here :-)
He may not shine like some people believe. John Fox is not Bill Belichick. Our offense isn't New Englands. We are not the Patriots.
Also, there could be a kid in this upcoming draft that ends up having a better career than Garoppolo.
I can almost guarantee you that there will be. All we have to do is one simple thing. Know who that is. If you can't do that (as teams prove consistently every year), then you drop back into the realm of mortal men and you have to try evaluate Garoppolo on what he has done, what me may do in your organization, what you think others that you can draft can do and put that against what you have to give up to get him. In other words, about 5 factors that you really don't know vs. one factor you don't know in the draft. But still.... you have SOME pro history with him and so the allure...
Call it the "Dak effect" this year, Soul. Posters see what Dak has accomplished (with a LOT OF HELP I would add), know we could have drafted him, and feel like we can just make up for that "miss" (he was passed on by all 32 teams over 120 times, people forget that) in this years draft.
That MAY be true, but it's also exceedingly unlikely. The "Dak scenario" only happens once a decade or so, if even that often.
I know you know this (I'm not insulting your intelligence here). The last 10 years of drafts have yielded some very good QB's that were passed over in the 1st round. The other day I was bored and went back through the past 50 or 60 draft years, just looking over some of the great players who were drafted in later rounds. Obviously the 1st round yields a better percentage of hits. But so many great players were not in that 1st round.
It isn't easy to draft good players. Not at any position, not just the QB position. But good teams find good players in the draft anyway. You don't have to "buy" a QB from another team. I'm not saying you never should do like we did with Jay Cutler. Sometimes if you can't draft then, yes, you may have to depend upon another team's castoffs. I get that. And maybe this Garoppolo move is our best move. But maybe not.
I gotta admit, I LOL about that comment regarding Dak "having a lot of help" in Dallas. No offense, but Garoppolo has been playing for Bill Belichick on the New England Patriots. A team as loaded (coaching and players) as any team in the NFL.
I guarantee you that if we do bring Garoppolo here he's not going to "have a lot of help" here :-)
He may not shine like some people believe. John Fox is not Bill Belichick. Our offense isn't New Englands. We are not the Patriots.
Also, there could be a kid in this upcoming draft that ends up having a better career than Garoppolo.
JABF, I wasn't talking about about just "some very good QBs". I was talking about a rookie from the 4th round who starts week 1, plays well, and leads his team to 13-2 and the #1 playoff seed in his rookie year. Yeah, that's a pretty rare scenario.
And I'm not taking anything away from what DP has accomplished so far, but do you really think he could have done that in Chicago this year? In Dallas, he has a lot of help he wouldn't have had here. A lot. Like easily the best running game and pass pro in the whole league (an OL of pro-bowlers helps a lot). And a very good receiving corps that's been healthy. And a defense that has been solid all year (#1 vs the run).
i just want us to get our new starter this year and not spend the next 5-10 years in "QB hell" lurching from failure to failure. It could be someone like Trubisky or Kizer or another rookie, you're right. I just am partial to Garrapolo (if a deal can be swung) because SOME of the risk has been mitigated and we aren't starting at ground zero with a guy who has no clue how to take a snap under center. I just dont see Fox and Logg as an inspiring duo to develop a raw rookie QB. I am afraid they will jack it up.
Talk to me in two months. I am so pissed about this shitty season, I don't want anyone coming to Chicago. Players have no chance here, hyperbolic I know but it's just been that bad on Sunday.
