Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for

davidl
Hall of Famer

Posts: 5,685

Likes: 2,691

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 10, 2024 8:23:58 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2024 8:23:58 GMT -6

May 10, 2024 7:08:45 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

May 9, 2024 19:35:16 GMT -6 davidl said:

That is a huge difference. Gale was never injured on a kick return. He never completely recovered from his knee surgery. It wasn’t for concussions, although his dementia was probably caused by brain damage.

It will be interesting to see how many kick returners are injured with the new rules. If they aren’t getting injured much, I think (some) teams will start putting their best players in there to maximize field positions. In big games and playoffs, a guy like Hill might beg the coach to let him do the kickoff returns. Watch for it.

Perhaps...but it potentially reduces their impact for the upcoming offensive series. If Hill, for example, busts out a good return he's coming off the field for a play or two to recover from the max speed sprint he just performed. Now you can't use that guy offensively...or he's on the field, but not able to run as fast as he potentially could because he's not fully recovered.

As for Sayers...the most kick returns he ever had in a season was 23 in his second season. It wasn't like he did it all the time.

I remember him doing them all the time, I don’t know how many kickoff returns the Bears had in 1966. EDIT: I checked it. Dick Gordon had 19 returns. But it’s the same idea: Have your best players run back kickoffs. Sayers had 5.38 ypc that year plus 34 receptions for about 500 yards. George probably saved him from kick returns once the game was out of reach, which happened often back in those days! Except for Sayers, the whole offense sucked. JABF will confirm.

A guy on the Seahawks forum wants to take it to the next level: put the whole damn OL out there to open a hole for your best RB or WR. At a critical point in 4Q or playoffs, some team might try it. Why not?

Quote

Last Edit: May 10, 2024 9:58:39 GMT -6 by davidl

Whisky Beer Bob
All-Pro

Posts: 2,597

Likes: 2,676

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 10, 2024 10:05:30 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by Whisky Beer Bob on May 10, 2024 10:05:30 GMT -6

May 10, 2024 8:23:58 GMT -6 davidl said:

May 10, 2024 7:08:45 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Perhaps...but it potentially reduces their impact for the upcoming offensive series. If Hill, for example, busts out a good return he's coming off the field for a play or two to recover from the max speed sprint he just performed. Now you can't use that guy offensively...or he's on the field, but not able to run as fast as he potentially could because he's not fully recovered.

As for Sayers...the most kick returns he ever had in a season was 23 in his second season. It wasn't like he did it all the time.

I remember him doing them all the time, I don’t know how many kickoff returns the Bears had in 1966. EDIT: I checked it. Dick Gordon had 19 returns. But it’s the same idea: Have your best players run back kickoffs. Sayers had 5.38 ypc that year plus 34 receptions for about 500 yards. George probably saved him from kick returns once the game was out of reach, which happened often back in those days! Except for Sayers, the whole offense sucked. JABF will confirm.

A guy on the Seahawks forum wants to take it to the next level: put the whole damn OL out there to open a hole for your best RB or WR. At a critical point in 4Q or playoffs, some team might try it. Why not?

I was reading that one of the UDFA RB that is attending the camp has been thought of for return duties as he is a shifty fast runner but it could be an issue for him unless he switches to WR for the number game of positions needed to be dressed.

Quote

IG omnipotentIdiot -"useless pics of booze, watches, and silly things"

"Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough." Mark Twain

butkus3595
Hall of Famer

Posts: 6,800

Member is Online
Likes: 8,874

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 10, 2024 17:51:31 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 10, 2024 17:51:31 GMT -6

May 10, 2024 8:23:58 GMT -6 davidl said:

May 10, 2024 7:08:45 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Perhaps...but it potentially reduces their impact for the upcoming offensive series. If Hill, for example, busts out a good return he's coming off the field for a play or two to recover from the max speed sprint he just performed. Now you can't use that guy offensively...or he's on the field, but not able to run as fast as he potentially could because he's not fully recovered.

As for Sayers...the most kick returns he ever had in a season was 23 in his second season. It wasn't like he did it all the time.

I remember him doing them all the time, I don’t know how many kickoff returns the Bears had in 1966. EDIT: I checked it. Dick Gordon had 19 returns. But it’s the same idea: Have your best players run back kickoffs. Sayers had 5.38 ypc that year plus 34 receptions for about 500 yards. George probably saved him from kick returns once the game was out of reach, which happened often back in those days! Except for Sayers, the whole offense sucked. JABF will confirm.

A guy on the Seahawks forum wants to take it to the next level: put the whole damn OL out there to open a hole for your best RB or WR. At a critical point in 4Q or playoffs, some team might try it. Why not?

Ok...dudes back then also worked jobs in the off season. It's not 1967 anymore.

As for the idea of putting the starting o-line out there...I hope to god a team who we play trys that. There's still a 5 yard gap between the two teams, so I'll just take my linebackers, safeties and defensive ends and shake the shit out of those lineman in space and make the tackle and out their best RB or WR 3 feet deep into the dirt.

Quote

davidl
Hall of Famer

Posts: 5,685

Likes: 2,691

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 10, 2024 18:43:23 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2024 18:43:23 GMT -6

May 10, 2024 17:51:31 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

May 10, 2024 8:23:58 GMT -6 davidl said:

I remember him doing them all the time, I don’t know how many kickoff returns the Bears had in 1966. EDIT: I checked it. Dick Gordon had 19 returns. But it’s the same idea: Have your best players run back kickoffs. Sayers had 5.38 ypc that year plus 34 receptions for about 500 yards. George probably saved him from kick returns once the game was out of reach, which happened often back in those days! Except for Sayers, the whole offense sucked. JABF will confirm.

A guy on the Seahawks forum wants to take it to the next level: put the whole damn OL out there to open a hole for your best RB or WR. At a critical point in 4Q or playoffs, some team might try it. Why not?

Ok...dudes back then also worked jobs in the off season. It's not 1967 anymore.

As for the idea of putting the starting o-line out there...I hope to god a team who we play trys that. There's still a 5 yard gap between the two teams, so I'll just take my linebackers, safeties and defensive ends and shake the shit out of those lineman in space and make the tackle and out their best RB or WR 3 feet deep into the dirt.

I don’t think Sayers and Gordon had off-season jobs!

Maybe that would happen. Maybe not. It would be fun to watch. I would have the OL drop back to get right in front of the kick returner, and then the whole unit moves together. Back in the “old days” they made a wedge until the NFL made it illegal.

Quote

Last Edit: May 10, 2024 18:48:54 GMT -6 by davidl

butkus3595
Hall of Famer

Posts: 6,800

Member is Online
Likes: 8,874

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 11, 2024 20:28:25 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 11, 2024 20:28:25 GMT -6

May 10, 2024 18:43:23 GMT -6 davidl said:

May 10, 2024 17:51:31 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Ok...dudes back then also worked jobs in the off season. It's not 1967 anymore.

As for the idea of putting the starting o-line out there...I hope to god a team who we play trys that. There's still a 5 yard gap between the two teams, so I'll just take my linebackers, safeties and defensive ends and shake the shit out of those lineman in space and make the tackle and out their best RB or WR 3 feet deep into the dirt.

I don’t think Sayers and Gordon had off-season jobs!

Maybe that would happen. Maybe not. It would be fun to watch. I would have the OL drop back to get right in front of the kick returner, and then the whole unit moves together. Back in the “old days” they made a wedge until the NFL made it illegal.

You really need to read up on the new rules. Neither teams players can move until the ball hits the ground or the returner has caught it...so I'm gonna go with yeah...it would most likely happen.

Quote

davidl
Hall of Famer

Posts: 5,685

Likes: 2,691

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 11, 2024 21:45:35 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 11, 2024 21:45:35 GMT -6

May 11, 2024 20:28:25 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

May 10, 2024 18:43:23 GMT -6 davidl said:

I don’t think Sayers and Gordon had off-season jobs!

Maybe that would happen. Maybe not. It would be fun to watch. I would have the OL drop back to get right in front of the kick returner, and then the whole unit moves together. Back in the “old days” they made a wedge until the NFL made it illegal.

You really need to read up on the new rules. Neither teams players can move until the ball hits the ground or the returner has caught it...so I'm gonna go with yeah...it would most likely happen.

I don’t see how that affects anything I said. You want to minimize the time that the OL has to hold their blocks before the returner hits the hole.

Quote

butkus3595
Hall of Famer

Posts: 6,800

Member is Online
Likes: 8,874

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 12, 2024 11:32:54 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 12, 2024 11:32:54 GMT -6

May 11, 2024 21:45:35 GMT -6 davidl said:

May 11, 2024 20:28:25 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

You really need to read up on the new rules. Neither teams players can move until the ball hits the ground or the returner has caught it...so I'm gonna go with yeah...it would most likely happen.

I don’t see how that affects anything I said. You want to minimize the time that the OL has to hold their blocks before the returner hits the hole.

You don't see how offensive lineman...who are overall slower, not being able to move until the kick returner has caught the ball and lined up 5 yards away from defensive and some offensive skill players who are overall much faster, puts them at an inherent disadvantage?

Oh...the time they'll hold their blocks is minimized alright using that theory!

Quote

davidl
Hall of Famer

Posts: 5,685

Likes: 2,691

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 12, 2024 20:35:25 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 12, 2024 20:35:25 GMT -6

May 12, 2024 11:32:54 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

May 11, 2024 21:45:35 GMT -6 davidl said:

I don’t see how that affects anything I said. You want to minimize the time that the OL has to hold their blocks before the returner hits the hole.

You don't see how offensive lineman...who are overall slower, not being able to move until the kick returner has caught the ball and lined up 5 yards away from defensive and some offensive skill players who are overall much faster, puts them at an inherent disadvantage?

Oh...the time they'll hold their blocks is minimized alright using that theory!

The OL has a 5 yd. headstart and dropping back toward the kicker. I’d put a couple speed guys on the outside to handle the problem you are talking about. Anyway, I think we’re going to see some creative experimentation with the new rules. I also want a kicker who can launch it a mile high and drop it dead on the 5 yd. line like a pro golfer sticking a pitching wedge dead on the flag.

Quote

butkus3595
Hall of Famer

Posts: 6,800

Member is Online
Likes: 8,874

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 13, 2024 7:21:28 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 13, 2024 7:21:28 GMT -6

May 12, 2024 20:35:25 GMT -6 davidl said:

May 12, 2024 11:32:54 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

You don't see how offensive lineman...who are overall slower, not being able to move until the kick returner has caught the ball and lined up 5 yards away from defensive and some offensive skill players who are overall much faster, puts them at an inherent disadvantage?

Oh...the time they'll hold their blocks is minimized alright using that theory!

The OL has a 5 yd. headstart and dropping back toward the kicker. I’d put a couple speed guys on the outside to handle the problem you are talking about. Anyway, I think we’re going to see some creative experimentation with the new rules. I also want a kicker who can launch it a mile high and drop it dead on the 5 yd. line like a pro golfer sticking a pitching wedge dead on the flag.

The defense also has the same amount of distance to build up speed. Hang time won't give you any advantage as NEITHER team can move until the ball has either A. been caught by the returner, or B. Hit the ground. You are right in that I think we'll see some creative plays coming from the new set up.

Quote

davidl
Hall of Famer

Posts: 5,685

Likes: 2,691

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for May 13, 2024 8:38:43 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 13, 2024 8:38:43 GMT -6

May 13, 2024 7:21:28 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

May 12, 2024 20:35:25 GMT -6 davidl said:

The OL has a 5 yd. headstart and dropping back toward the kicker. I’d put a couple speed guys on the outside to handle the problem you are talking about. Anyway, I think we’re going to see some creative experimentation with the new rules. I also want a kicker who can launch it a mile high and drop it dead on the 5 yd. line like a pro golfer sticking a pitching wedge dead on the flag.

The defense also has the same amount of distance to build up speed. Hang time won't give you any advantage as NEITHER team can move until the ball has either A. been caught by the returner, or B. Hit the ground. You are right in that I think we'll see some creative plays coming from the new set up.

That’s not the point. I want the kick to drop like a stuck pitching wedge on the 5/yd line so it doesn’t get into the endzone.

The kick returner is coming forward while the OL is dropping back. If they are 30 yards apart, that doesn’t work from a blocking standpoint.

Quote

Remembering Dick Butkus

Countdown Clock

Bears 2024 Schedule

Chitown Bears Affiliates

Announcements

Recent Threads

Would you be wiling to give up a 2nd rounder for

Post by davidl on May 10, 2024 8:23:58 GMT -6

Post by Whisky Beer Bob on May 10, 2024 10:05:30 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 10, 2024 17:51:31 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2024 18:43:23 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 11, 2024 20:28:25 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 11, 2024 21:45:35 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 12, 2024 11:32:54 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 12, 2024 20:35:25 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on May 13, 2024 7:21:28 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 13, 2024 8:38:43 GMT -6