Getting a high-ceiling QB IS "building the team". It's the most important piece of the team.
Andrew Luck wasn't good? How about Joe Burrow? Payton Manning?
All were #1 overall
Not lately nope. People will say what a quarterback did 10-15 years ago doesn't matter so .....
Burrows really hasn't done much besides getting injured. And Luck..... Again what did he do? He will always be k own as the guy who retired before we all got to see his ceiling.
Dude you can't be serious.
Burrow is an elite QB who took his team to the SB and nearly won it with a garbage OL in front of him. He's beaten Mahomes several times which virtually no other QB has accomplished.
Luck threw for 4400 yards as a rookie and was a 4-time Pro Bowler again on teams that couldn't put together a decent OL.
Manning....well, nevermind.
You're aware that Justin Fields couldn't hold any of these guys jocks as a passer, right? It's amazing the amount of Stockholm Syndrome that has infected Bears fans with regard to pass offense and QB play. Many seem to think that crap is somehow ok because we "don't deserve better".
I've been screaming this since August--the key question is: What is Fields ceiling?
If he had "better" around him, what would his ceiling be? No one, I mean NO ONE, has "perfect". If he needs perfect, then he isn't the guy.
I am not disagreeing with that. But in fairness I don't believe Fields was given "enough" talent to reach his ceiling. And I totally get it that some people can perform better with less talent than others. The question (I think) regarding Fields is can he reach his ceiling with a better OL, WRs and a good coach? That's not the same as perfect but rather "good" coaching and supporting talent. Good. And I know all of this is subjective and we won't all agree on this - it is THE hot button topic for Bears fans. But a lot of the fans believe Fields' ceiling is significantly higher than what we have seen - if - he has what this draft and FA - and coaching hire can provide him in 2024.
Not lately nope. People will say what a quarterback did 10-15 years ago doesn't matter so .....
Burrows really hasn't done much besides getting injured. And Luck..... Again what did he do? He will always be k own as the guy who retired before we all got to see his ceiling.
Dude you can't be serious.
Burrow is an elite QB who took his team to the SB and nearly won it with a garbage OL in front of him. He's beaten Mahomes several times which virtually no other QB had accomplished.
Luck threw for 4400 yards as a rookie and was a 4-time Pro Bowler again on teams that couldn't put together a decent OL.
Manning....well, nevermind.
You're aware that Justin Fields couldn't hold any of these guys jocks as a passer, right? It's amazing the amount of Stockholm Syndrome that has infected Bears fans with regard to pass offense and QB play. Many seem to think that crap is somehow ok because we "don't deserve better".
I'm okay if Fields stays or go, it's a game and I have no bones in it. All I'm saying it doesn't really matter if you draft at 1 or the last pick. Hell we have seen non drafted QB's make it. I also don't watch college ball but others that do often fail at the picks so again, it doesn't matter.
Of course your chances on a home run increase but I think we should build the core then plug a QB in BUT if we don't improve the offense side this whole convo means absolutely nothing anyways.
I've been screaming this since August--the key question is: What is Fields ceiling?
If he had "better" around him, what would his ceiling be? No one, I mean NO ONE, has "perfect". If he needs perfect, then he isn't the guy.
What empirical evidence do you have that leads you to believe Fields has an elite or near-elite ceiling as a passer? He's had very few impressive games. He's only thrown for 300+ yards once. He's only thrown for 250+ a couple times. Likewise, he's only thrown for 3+ TDs a handful of times. His average, typical stat line is roughly 180 yards & 1 TD.
This is where I am gonna hear all about the running element, right? Except that doesn't win games consistently and teams have adjusted to take away his 60 yard TD runs (not to mention the injury risk involved). Consider Fields elusiveness and running ability to be the cherry on top of the sundae.
What tells you the sundae is so special? I haven't seen it.
PS: Mahomes hasn't had the compliment of support this season that he has had in the past. It’s been largely Kelce and that's about it. Yet he still just won a playoff game decisively. That's what a high-ceiling QB gives you. That's the difference between a QB "you can win with" and a QB that "win because of".
Fields isn’t Mahomes. He doesn’t need to be that good for the Bears to be Super Bowl ready by 2025. He will be better than the stats you quote with the additions listed. Evidence is common sense. It doesn’t need to be much better in combination with the running game (top-2 last 2 years) for the Bears to have 6,000+ TOTAL OFFENSE. I said TOTAL OFFENSE. Now look up the teams with 6000+ TOTAL OFFENSE, and you will see it correlates to about 26-29 ppg. And that’s enough to win a lot of games with a good defense.
Why do we want a one and done team? I want consistent winning year after year. I take what the Packers are doing. Having won a ring since 2010 but have been consistently in the playoffs and even NFC Championship games. Fields is the worst QB in the division. His ceiling is at best a Goff who requires a super team to get him to the super bowl to not score a single TD.
I've been screaming this since August--the key question is: What is Fields ceiling?
If he had "better" around him, what would his ceiling be? No one, I mean NO ONE, has "perfect". If he needs perfect, then he isn't the guy.
I am not disagreeing with that. But in fairness I don't believe Fields was given "enough" talent to reach his ceiling. And I totally get it that some people can perform better with less talent than others. The question (I think) regarding Fields is can he reach his ceiling with a better OL, WRs and a good coach? That's not the same as perfect but rather "good" coaching and supporting talent. Good. And I know all of this is subjective and we won't all agree on this - it is THE hot button topic for Bears fans. But a lot of the fans believe Fields' ceiling is significantly higher than what we have seen - if - he has what this draft and FA - and coaching hire can provide him in 2024.
No one is giving enough talent for anything. Mahomes has no one to throw the ball to but a TE yet won a playoff game because of he's a good QB. I've seen Brady take no name WR's to the AFC Championship game.
Now if you want to say coaching? That is fair but we're keeping the same lame duck HC who hired our OC.
If he fails again in 2024 and Poles missed out on a top 10 -15 QB in the NFL. Do we fire him along side our lame duck HC? It comes a time you have to have a QB to play in the modern NFL. Can't keep kicking the can down the road.
Fields isn’t Mahomes. He doesn’t need to be that good for the Bears to be Super Bowl ready by 2025. He will be better than the stats you quote with the additions listed. Evidence is common sense. It doesn’t need to be much better in combination with the running game (top-2 last 2 years) for the Bears to have 6,000+ TOTAL OFFENSE. I said TOTAL OFFENSE. Now look up the teams with 6000+ TOTAL OFFENSE, and you will see it correlates to about 26-29 ppg. And that’s enough to win a lot of games with a good defense.
Why do we want a one and done team? I want consistent winning year after year. I take what the Packers are doing. Having won a ring since 2010 but have been consistently in the playoffs and even NFC Championship games. Fields is the worst QB in the division. His ceiling is at best a Goff who requires a super team to get him to the super bowl to not score a single TD.
I understand that. I think I told you it’s a personal thing with me. I can see a path to the Super Bowl in 2025. In fact, I said if Bears win SB in 2025, I don’t care if Williams goes Hall of Fame with some other team. If I had another 20 years to live, I would feel less urgency about it. I shouldn’t have to remind you the Bears history drafting QBs.
I am not disagreeing with that. But in fairness I don't believe Fields was given "enough" talent to reach his ceiling. And I totally get it that some people can perform better with less talent than others. The question (I think) regarding Fields is can he reach his ceiling with a better OL, WRs and a good coach? That's not the same as perfect but rather "good" coaching and supporting talent. Good. And I know all of this is subjective and we won't all agree on this - it is THE hot button topic for Bears fans. But a lot of the fans believe Fields' ceiling is significantly higher than what we have seen - if - he has what this draft and FA - and coaching hire can provide him in 2024.
No one is giving enough talent for anything. Mahomes has no one to throw the ball to but a TE yet won a playoff game because of he's a good QB. I've seen Brady take no name WR's to the AFC Championship game.
Now if you want to say coaching? That is fair but we're keeping the same lame duck HC who hired our OC.
If he fails again in 2024 and Poles missed out on a top 10 -15 QB in the NFL. Do we fire him along side our lame duck HC? It comes a time you have to have a QB to play in the modern NFL. Can't keep kicking the can down the road.
You mention two Hall of Fame QBs there who BOTH played for Hall of Fame coaches with some Hall of Fame offense players around them. Do you honestly believe the Bears situation equates to that? Mahomes had about the sweetest landing any QB could have transitioning to the NFL. Tom Brady & Bill Belichick. Patrick Mahomes & Andy Reid. LOLOLOL, how on earth do you equate that with what Fields came into here - a hellish situation by anyone's measure. If you can't see this I just don't know what to tell you.
Why do we want a one and done team? I want consistent winning year after year. I take what the Packers are doing. Having won a ring since 2010 but have been consistently in the playoffs and even NFC Championship games. Fields is the worst QB in the division. His ceiling is at best a Goff who requires a super team to get him to the super bowl to not score a single TD.
I understand that. I think I told you it’s a personal thing with me. I can see a path to the Super Bowl in 2025. In fact, I said if Bears win SB in 2025, I don’t care if Williams goes Hall of Fame with some other team. If I had another 20 years to live, I would feel less urgency about it. I shouldn’t have to remind you the Bears history drafting QBs.
We had a true path to the Super Bowl in 2018 with PFF ranking our defense #2 of the decade. We had a legendary turnover ratio that year too. What held us back again was QB play (If we had Watson we would of won it all) And a kicker who should of been gone during that 4 donk FG game against the Lions. 2017 Jags were also the same way. Better QB play would of got them a Super Bowl shot.
Having a Super Team is nice but you can't keep it for long. Having maybe 1-3 year window at max while an elite QB can give you 10-15 years.
I'm personally tired of us doing it the super team way. Having only 1 real shot and having to spend 4-5 years to rebuild it because your players began to age out and losing key players do to cap issues.
I understand that. I think I told you it’s a personal thing with me. I can see a path to the Super Bowl in 2025. In fact, I said if Bears win SB in 2025, I don’t care if Williams goes Hall of Fame with some other team. If I had another 20 years to live, I would feel less urgency about it. I shouldn’t have to remind you the Bears history drafting QBs.
We had a true path to the Super Bowl in 2018 with PFF ranking our defense #2 of the decade. We had a legendary turnover ratio that year too. What held us back again was QB play (If we had Watson we would of won it all) And a kicker who should of been gone during that 4 donk FG game against the Lions. 2017 Jags were also the same way. Better QB play would of got them a Super Bowl shot.
Having a Super Team is nice but you can't keep it for long. Having maybe 1-3 year window at max while an elite QB can give you 10-15 years.
I'm personally tired of us doing it the super team way. Having only 1 real shot and having to spend 4-5 years to rebuild it because your players began to age out and losing key players do to cap issues.
I understand what you are saying. My bucket list item is one more Super Bowl. Give me just one, and anything after that is pure gravy. I could just relax and take whatever comes.
No one is giving enough talent for anything. Mahomes has no one to throw the ball to but a TE yet won a playoff game because of he's a good QB. I've seen Brady take no name WR's to the AFC Championship game.
Now if you want to say coaching? That is fair but we're keeping the same lame duck HC who hired our OC.
If he fails again in 2024 and Poles missed out on a top 10 -15 QB in the NFL. Do we fire him along side our lame duck HC? It comes a time you have to have a QB to play in the modern NFL. Can't keep kicking the can down the road.
You mention two Hall of Fame QBs there who BOTH played for Hall of Fame coaches with some Hall of Fame offense players around them. Do you honestly believe the Bears situation equates to that? Mahomes had about the sweetest landing any QB could have transitioning to the NFL. Tom Brady & Bill Belichick. Patrick Mahomes & Andy Reid. LOLOLOL, how on earth do you equate that with what Fields came into here - a hellish situation by anyone's measure. If you can't see this I just don't know what to tell you.
Bill Belichick is a great coach but one thing his era without Brady has shown us is that he needed Brady to run that offense. He would spend a lot of his time keeping his defense legit. Top 5 and give Brady no name WR's to throw the ball too.
When Brady left. Brady has 2 great years with the Bucs. Wins a Super Bowl as well while BB record has got to one of its worst in history. Forcing him to resign.
Andy Reid before Mahomes was a big chock artist. Something Mahomes helps keep in place with his skill set. Reid spot wasn't as great as it was now with the likes of Alex Smith and etc... He built a super team for him and still couldn't get far. Mahomes is just that good.
Elite QBs are a HUGE difference maker. Chiefs are going to win a few more Super Bowls just on Mahomes alone. May not get to Bradys number but I see 4 Super Bowl rings in his future.
Allen and Burrow having rings as well. Even sadly to say Love who threw for 4k yards. They have that game changing ability as a passer that can win games for you.