And of course MOTM, the broken record, ignores Love has a better team and coach calling plays.
Love has definitely a better coach, I'll give you that.
But I wouldn't necessarily say that GB is a better team. I'd argue that, at least in 2023, we have better receivers and certainly better TEs. And despite having a crappy OL, we had the second best running game (rushing yds per game). And the defense wasn't too bad, either.
Once again, people are trying to make so many excuses for Fields instead of admitting that he's just not special. The way he's playing after three seasons was not worth the 11th pick overall. Sorry.
In fairness, I think a lot of people are not making excuses but just trying to understand after evaluating the contributing factors here and trying to weight them and better understand his ceiling. Just trying to be thoughtful about it all.
Love has definitely a better coach, I'll give you that.
But I wouldn't necessarily say that GB is a better team. I'd argue that, at least in 2023, we have better receivers and certainly better TEs. And despite having a crappy OL, we had the second best running game (rushing yds per game). And the defense wasn't too bad, either.
Once again, people are trying to make so many excuses for Fields instead of admitting that he's just not special. The way he's playing after three seasons was not worth the 11th pick overall. Sorry.
In fairness, I think a lot of people are not making excuses but just trying to understand after evaluating the contributing factors here and trying to weight them and better understand his ceiling. Just trying to be thoughtful about it all.
Two things can be true here: 1. Fields development has been hindered by the supporting cast and poor coaching. 2. Fields has some inherent limitations as a player independent from #1 above.
Fields Contributions to the offense and to this team extend well beyond how many passing yards he throws. But even guys like motm and MP should consider that his passing yards will increase with the addition of Harrison, a center, and a competent OC.
With those additions, I’m betting the Bears can be Super Bowl ready in 2025. That’s all I care about —seize the moment! If somebody sees Williams as a generational talent, I can see how they prefer that direction.
In fairness, I think a lot of people are not making excuses but just trying to understand after evaluating the contributing factors here and trying to weight them and better understand his ceiling. Just trying to be thoughtful about it all.
Two things can be true here: 1. Fields development has been hindered by the supporting cast and poor coaching. 2. Fields has some inherent limitations as a player independent from #1 above.
Fields Contributions to the offense and to this team extend well beyond how many passing yards he throws. But even guys like motm and MP should consider that his passing yards will increase with the addition of Harrison, a center, and a competent OC.
With those additions, I’m betting the Bears can be Super Bowl ready in 2025. That’s all I care about —seize the moment! If somebody sees Williams as a generational talent, I can see how they prefer that direction.
I think you're right. And I just hope the Bears are getting these decisions right. Us fans (me included) want change but then we get anxious about change (in my case the change of moving on from Fields). Heck we have people stressing over the attorney, Stein, being let go. LOL, we all look pretty laughable when you think of it. And again, I'm not criticizing anyone because I am doing the exact same thing. I think the last two seasons, in particular, were pretty hard on the fanbase. It is one thing to say "blow it all up" two years ago, but quite another thing to live through it. The Bears are going to be criticized no matter what they do now. If they draft a QB people will be hot. If they don't draft a QB people will be angry too. No matter who they hire as OC I figure half the fan base will be upset, and maybe more. And think about it. Before this last season began virtually all Bears fans had the team winning between 5 and 9 wins. The odds were at 7.5 wins if memory serves me right. LOL, the Bears achieve that and people are ready to jump off the ledges. We have finally become a fan base of lunatics.
Two things can be true here: 1. Fields development has been hindered by the supporting cast and poor coaching. 2. Fields has some inherent limitations as a player independent from #1 above.
Fields Contributions to the offense and to this team extend well beyond how many passing yards he throws. But even guys like motm and MP should consider that his passing yards will increase with the addition of Harrison, a center, and a competent OC.
With those additions, I’m betting the Bears can be Super Bowl ready in 2025. That’s all I care about —seize the moment! If somebody sees Williams as a generational talent, I can see how they prefer that direction.
I think you're right. And I just hope the Bears are getting these decisions right. Us fans (me included) want change but then we get anxious about change (in my case the change of moving on from Fields). Heck we have people stressing over the attorney, Stein, being let go. LOL, we all look pretty laughable when you think of it. And again, I'm not criticizing anyone because I am doing the exact same thing. I think the last two seasons, in particular, were pretty hard on the fanbase. It is one thing to say "blow it all up" two years ago, but quite another thing to live through it. The Bears are going to be criticized no matter what they do now. If they draft a QB people will be hot. If they don't draft a QB people will be angry too. No matter who they hire as OC I figure half the fan base will be upset, and maybe more. And think about it. Before this last season began virtually all Bears fans had the team winning between 5 and 9 wins. The odds were at 7.5 wins if memory serves me right. LOL, the Bears achieve that and people are ready to jump off the ledges. We have finally become a fan base of lunatics.
Well, for the record, this lunatic predicted 7-10.
In fairness, I think a lot of people are not making excuses but just trying to understand after evaluating the contributing factors here and trying to weight them and better understand his ceiling. Just trying to be thoughtful about it all.
Two things can be true here: 1. Fields development has been hindered by the supporting cast and poor coaching. 2. Fields has some inherent limitations as a player independent from #1 above.
Fields Contributions to the offense and to this team extend well beyond how many passing yards he throws. But even guys like motm and MP should consider that his passing yards will increase with the addition of Harrison, a center, and a competent OC.
With those additions, I’m betting the Bears can be Super Bowl ready in 2025. That’s all I care about —seize the moment! If somebody sees Williams as a generational talent, I can see how they prefer that direction.
I've been screaming this since August--the key question is: What is Fields ceiling?
If he had "better" around him, what would his ceiling be? No one, I mean NO ONE, has "perfect". If he needs perfect, then he isn't the guy.
What empirical evidence do you have that leads you to believe Fields has an elite or near-elite ceiling as a passer? He's had very few impressive games. He's only thrown for 300+ yards once. He's only thrown for 250+ a couple times. Likewise, he's only thrown for 3+ TDs a handful of times. His average, typical stat line is roughly 180 yards & 1 TD.
This is where I am gonna hear all about the running element, right? Except that doesn't win games consistently and teams have adjusted to take away his 60 yard TD runs (not to mention the injury risk involved). Consider Fields elusiveness and running ability to be the cherry on top of the sundae.
What tells you the sundae is so special? I haven't seen it.
PS: Mahomes hasn't had the compliment of support this season that he has had in the past. Its been largely Kelce and that's about it. Yet he still just won a playoff game decisively. That's what a high-ceiling QB gives you. That's the difference between a QB "you can win with" and a QB that "win because of".
True but not many QB's taken at #1 are ranked at the top anyways. I say build the team.
Getting a high-ceiling QB IS "building the team". It's the most important piece of the team.
Andrew Luck wasn't good? How about Joe Burrow? Payton Manning?
All were #1 overall
Not lately nope. People will say what a quarterback did 10-15 years ago doesn't matter so .....
Burrows really hasn't done much besides getting injured. And Luck..... Again what did he do? He will always be k own as the guy who retired before we all got to see his ceiling.
Not lately nope. People will say what a quarterback did 10-15 years ago doesn't matter so .....
Burrows really hasn't done much besides getting injured. And Luck..... Again what did he do? He will always be k own as the guy who retired before we all got to see his ceiling.
Don't forget the legendary Sam Bradford. Talk about a bust...
Two things can be true here: 1. Fields development has been hindered by the supporting cast and poor coaching. 2. Fields has some inherent limitations as a player independent from #1 above.
Fields Contributions to the offense and to this team extend well beyond how many passing yards he throws. But even guys like motm and MP should consider that his passing yards will increase with the addition of Harrison, a center, and a competent OC.
With those additions, I’m betting the Bears can be Super Bowl ready in 2025. That’s all I care about —seize the moment! If somebody sees Williams as a generational talent, I can see how they prefer that direction.
I've been screaming this since August--the key question is: What is Fields ceiling?
If he had "better" around him, what would his ceiling be? No one, I mean NO ONE, has "perfect". If he needs perfect, then he isn't the guy.
What empirical evidence do you have that leads you to believe Fields has an elite or near-elite ceiling as a passer? He's had very few impressive games. He's only thrown for 300+ yards once. He's only thrown for 250+ a couple times. Likewise, he's only thrown for 3+ TDs a handful of times. His average, typical stat line is roughly 180 yards & 1 TD.
This is where I am gonna hear all about the running element, right? Except that doesn't win games consistently and teams have adjusted to take away his 60 yard TD runs (not to mention the injury risk involved). Consider Fields elusiveness and running ability to be the cherry on top of the sundae.
What tells you the sundae is so special? I haven't seen it.
PS: Mahomes hasn't had the compliment of support this season that he has had in the past. It’s been largely Kelce and that's about it. Yet he still just won a playoff game decisively. That's what a high-ceiling QB gives you. That's the difference between a QB "you can win with" and a QB that "win because of".
Fields isn’t Mahomes. He doesn’t need to be that good for the Bears to be Super Bowl ready by 2025. He will be better than the stats you quote with the additions listed. Evidence is common sense. It doesn’t need to be much better in combination with the running game (top-2 last 2 years) for the Bears to have 6,000+ TOTAL OFFENSE. I said TOTAL OFFENSE. Now look up the teams with 6000+ TOTAL OFFENSE, and you will see it correlates to about 26-29 ppg. And that’s enough to win a lot of games with a good defense.