Every QB needs an awesome cast around them to win. Name me the QB that wins without one. We haven't seen consistent winning the last 3 years because before this year the talent on this roster was dog water.
He is citing statistics for this year, not last year. I am basically on your side in this debate, but he has a point. Does Stroud have an “awesome cast”? Let’s deal with his argument straight up. I posted my defense of Fields, and it’s a bit different. I concede MP some of his points.
"Justin's average gameday passing stat line since coming to the league is:" Thats what MP was citing.
Strouds supporting cast is pretty friggen good. Not sure why people are sleeping on that. Tank Dell was a guy that both YOU and I liked in the draft last year a lot, and he's shown why he was deserving of that until going on IR. Had he not, he's a 1k yard receiver this year. Nico Collins was a highly touted receiver who was expected to have a breakout 3rd year. They're 3rd and 4th receivers are freakin Robert Woods and Noah Brown, who I think would be a perfect slot receiver here next year. They've got a really good TE in Daulton Shultz who broke out in Dallas. Beyond that, the offensive line consists of some guy...may not have heard of him...might be a JAG...Laremy Tunsil, Shaq Mason and Kenyon Green at guard, Juice Scruggs at center, and George Fant at right tackle...thats a REAL FRIGGEN GOOD offensive line! It would be even better if Tytus Howard wasn't lost for the season. Finally, Bobby Slowik knows how to call a friggen offense that takes advantage of players strengths. Amazing what a good play caller can do for an offense, eh?
Not doing as deep a dive this week in my notes...but how many times do you think I've written "nobody open" or "these route combos SUCK" in my notes through 3 drives so far?
Let's see, 3 drives. So 9 plays (assuming 3 and outs). So 9 times?
I agree with all of this. Seems like he needs a bunch of awesome cast around him to win. At least I hope so, as we never saw any consistent winning last 3 years
Fields needs to be better. He says the same thing. His development was stunted to some extent by not having the cast around him to succeed (coaching and also player talent). Any good QB1 needs the best talent around him that you can possibly give him. I am not saying perfect talent, because nobody gets that. But there is a threshold for a guy to reach his QB1 ceiling. This year the Bears are better on offense talent. Not there yet, because the team still needs a few pieces added. The coaching is still bad at OC. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If Caleb or any of these QBs coming to the NFL in 2024 had come to the Bears when Fields did - not one of them would have overcome the issues here in Chicago. They would probably not done as well as Fields did because Fields DOES have freak physical gifts.
I have said this before. If Mahomes had come here instead of to a loaded KC team and Andy Reid (also allowed to carry a clipboard for a season and learn behind a seasoned veteran) - Mahomes fails here. I 100% believe he would be gone now. That's just reality here in Chicago. Now, I do believe he offense has added some talent (not there yet on the OL especially with the flip flopping of guys in the first half of the season due to injuries). But that is now. Not then. Fields can "now" try to develop with at least DJ Moore and part of an OL in place.
Lot to unravel here.
1st off, yes we all agree that last season was a teardown year and the roster had little talent especially in the 2nd half. But there is no way you can know that Mahomes or Caleb would/will "fail here". Stroud isn't failing in Houston and they were a horrid team last year, one of the few teams we actually beat. If you believe that any QB "would fail here" then you may as well quit being a fan. That's a defeatist mentality.
BTW, Fields has a top-10 WR and a top-10 TE RIGHT NOW. And he still can't seem to throw for 3000 yards which is a low bar to begin with.
I honestly don't know what Poles is gonna do. There's big risk either way. If he does keep Justin, that pretty much means you're running the same coaching staff back again. That sounds awful to me.
Personally, I'm out on Fields at this point as I think his ceiling as a passer is simply not high enough. His contract has only one more cheap year left. Poles isn't tied to Fields. Getsy needs to go (as we all agree) and no way you're gonna give Justin a 3rd OC in 4 seasons, right?
All those factors point to Poles moving on in my mind.
He is citing statistics for this year, not last year. I am basically on your side in this debate, but he has a point. Does Stroud have an “awesome cast”? Let’s deal with his argument straight up. I posted my defense of Fields, and it’s a bit different. I concede MP some of his points.
"Justin's average gameday passing stat line since coming to the league is:" Thats what MP was citing.
Strouds supporting cast is pretty friggen good. Not sure why people are sleeping on that. Tank Dell was a guy that both YOU and I liked in the draft last year a lot, and he's shown why he was deserving of that until going on IR. Had he not, he's a 1k yard receiver this year. Nico Collins was a highly touted receiver who was expected to have a breakout 3rd year. Their 3rd and 4th receivers are freakin Robert Woods and Noah Brown, who I think would be a perfect slot receiver here next year. They've got a really good TE in Daulton Shultz who broke out in Dallas. Beyond that, the offensive line consists of some guy...may not have heard of him...might be a JAG...Laremy Tunsil, Shaq Mason and Kenyon Green at guard, Juice Scruggs at center, and George Fant at right tackle...thats a REAL FRIGGEN GOOD offensive line! It would be even better if Tytus Howard wasn't lost for the season. Finally, Bobby Slowik knows how to call a friggen offense that takes advantage of players strengths. Amazing what a good play caller can do for an offense, eh?
The stats and QB rating is nearly the same as last year, so we’re not going to gain much ground on that front. I don’t think many would call the Texans cast is a great deal better than the Bears. Not “awesome”. I don’t think we win there either.
I think the best argument against MP is that Fields is good enough to be Super Bowl ready by 2025 with addition of Harrison, a good center, and better coaching.
"Justin's average gameday passing stat line since coming to the league is:" Thats what MP was citing.
Strouds supporting cast is pretty friggen good. Not sure why people are sleeping on that. Tank Dell was a guy that both YOU and I liked in the draft last year a lot, and he's shown why he was deserving of that until going on IR. Had he not, he's a 1k yard receiver this year. Nico Collins was a highly touted receiver who was expected to have a breakout 3rd year. Their 3rd and 4th receivers are freakin Robert Woods and Noah Brown, who I think would be a perfect slot receiver here next year. They've got a really good TE in Daulton Shultz who broke out in Dallas. Beyond that, the offensive line consists of some guy...may not have heard of him...might be a JAG...Laremy Tunsil, Shaq Mason and Kenyon Green at guard, Juice Scruggs at center, and George Fant at right tackle...thats a REAL FRIGGEN GOOD offensive line! It would be even better if Tytus Howard wasn't lost for the season. Finally, Bobby Slowik knows how to call a friggen offense that takes advantage of players strengths. Amazing what a good play caller can do for an offense, eh?
The stats and QB rating is nearly the same as last year, so we’re not going to gain much ground on that front. I don’t think many would call the Texans cast is better than the Bears. Not “awesome”. I don’t think we win there either.
I think the best argument against MP is that Fields is good enough to be Super Bowl ready by 2025 with addition of Harrison, a good center, and better coaching.
I'd feel a lot better about riding with Fields if that didn't mean we are stuck with Flus for another year. Are we gonna fire Getsy and saddle Justin with his 3rd OC and 3rd scheme in 4 years? If so, do you have faith Flus will attract a good new OC?
The stats and QB rating is nearly the same as last year, so we’re not going to gain much ground on that front. I don’t think many would call the Texans cast is better than the Bears. Not “awesome”. I don’t think we win there either.
I think the best argument against MP is that Fields is good enough to be Super Bowl ready by 2025 with addition of Harrison, a good center, and better coaching.
I'd feel a lot better about riding with Fields if that didn't mean we are stuck with Flus for another year. Are we gonna fire Getsy and saddle Justin with his 3rd OC and 3rd scheme in 4 years? If so, do you have faith Flus will attract a good new OC?
I sure don't.
So, does that mean you’re OK with keeping Fields, if they bring in a new coaching staff? Then there’s nothing to argue about except you and butkus don’t agree on how good Fields is.
I'd feel a lot better about riding with Fields if that didn't mean we are stuck with Flus for another year. Are we gonna fire Getsy and saddle Justin with his 3rd OC and 3rd scheme in 4 years? If so, do you have faith Flus will attract a good new OC?
I sure don't.
So, does that mean you’re OK with keeping Fields, if they bring in a new coaching staff? Then there’s nothing to argue about except you and butkus don’t agree on how good Fields is.
Harbaugh?
YES
If he likes Fields and wants to work with him, I'm good with that. I can't imagine any rookie HC is gonna want to be tied to a QB in his final contract year.
Fields is not a very good passer right now. His stats and watching him tell you that. Like I said, his typical game is 16/29, 170 yards, 1 TD, 1 Turnover, and a crapfest 4th quarter. That doesn't (or shouldn't) impress anyone.
So, does that mean you’re OK with keeping Fields, if they bring in a new coaching staff? Then there’s nothing to argue about except you and butkus don’t agree on how good Fields is.
Harbaugh?
YES
If he likes Fields and wants to work with him, I'm good with that. I can't imagine any rookie HC is gonna want to be tied to a QB in his final contract year.
Fields is not a very good passer right now. His stats and watching him tell you that. Like I said, his typical game is 16/29, 170 yards, 1 TD, 1 Turnover, and a crapfest 4th quarter. That doesn't (or shouldn't) impress anyone.
Does it have to be Harbaugh? Are you OK with keeping Fields, if they bring in some other coach?
Fields needs to be better. He says the same thing. His development was stunted to some extent by not having the cast around him to succeed (coaching and also player talent). Any good QB1 needs the best talent around him that you can possibly give him. I am not saying perfect talent, because nobody gets that. But there is a threshold for a guy to reach his QB1 ceiling. This year the Bears are better on offense talent. Not there yet, because the team still needs a few pieces added. The coaching is still bad at OC. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If Caleb or any of these QBs coming to the NFL in 2024 had come to the Bears when Fields did - not one of them would have overcome the issues here in Chicago. They would probably not done as well as Fields did because Fields DOES have freak physical gifts.
I have said this before. If Mahomes had come here instead of to a loaded KC team and Andy Reid (also allowed to carry a clipboard for a season and learn behind a seasoned veteran) - Mahomes fails here. I 100% believe he would be gone now. That's just reality here in Chicago. Now, I do believe he offense has added some talent (not there yet on the OL especially with the flip flopping of guys in the first half of the season due to injuries). But that is now. Not then. Fields can "now" try to develop with at least DJ Moore and part of an OL in place.
Lot to unravel here.
1st off, yes we all agree that last season was a teardown year and the roster had little talent especially in the 2nd half. But there is no way you can know that Mahomes or Caleb would/will "fail here". Stroud isn't failing in Houston and they were a horrid team last year, one of the few teams we actually beat. If you believe that any QB "would fail here" then you may as well quit being a fan. That's a defeatist mentality.
BTW, Fields has a top-10 WR and a top-10 TE RIGHT NOW. And he still can't seem to throw for 3000 yards which is a low bar to begin with.
I honestly don't know what Poles is gonna do. There's big risk either way. If he does keep Justin, that pretty much means you're running the same coaching staff back again. That sounds awful to me.
Personally, I'm out on Fields at this point as I think his ceiling as a passer is simply not high enough. His contract has only one more cheap year left. Poles isn't tied to Fields. Getsy needs to go (as we all agree) and no way you're gonna give Justin a 3rd OC in 4 seasons, right?
All those factors point to Poles moving on in my mind.
There is a risk either way. I agree. When I said no QB would be successful here I was not talking "present" situation but past - no QB1 was going to overcome the deficiencies here. JMO. In a solid offense Fields will be very very successful in the NFL. And I believe the Bears can be that kind of offense as soon as next season if Getsy is gone and Poles adds some key upgrades. As far as Getsy getting jettisoned I figure Fields is resilient enough and smart enough and hard working enough to survive a 3rd OC in 4 seasons. As far as Fields ceiling I know what I saw with my own eyes at Ohio State with him passing. He has the talent. The Bears pretty much did everything possible to kill it... but like I said Fields has the gears to overcome this. I believe he is less of a risk than drafting a guy in this draft. But admittedly I am a fan and could be dead wrong. If we do move on from Fields, hey, if the Bears get it right this time I'm going to be a mighty happy camper. And of course I'll be cheering for the new guy, no matter who they bring in if they do replace Fields (and I do see it's not a slam dunk decision here as far as keeping/trading Fields... I hope I've made that clear too).
Fields needs to be better. He says the same thing. His development was stunted to some extent by not having the cast around him to succeed (coaching and also player talent). Any good QB1 needs the best talent around him that you can possibly give him. I am not saying perfect talent, because nobody gets that. But there is a threshold for a guy to reach his QB1 ceiling. This year the Bears are better on offense talent. Not there yet, because the team still needs a few pieces added. The coaching is still bad at OC. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. If Caleb or any of these QBs coming to the NFL in 2024 had come to the Bears when Fields did - not one of them would have overcome the issues here in Chicago. They would probably not done as well as Fields did because Fields DOES have freak physical gifts.
I have said this before. If Mahomes had come here instead of to a loaded KC team and Andy Reid (also allowed to carry a clipboard for a season and learn behind a seasoned veteran) - Mahomes fails here. I 100% believe he would be gone now. That's just reality here in Chicago. Now, I do believe he offense has added some talent (not there yet on the OL especially with the flip flopping of guys in the first half of the season due to injuries). But that is now. Not then. Fields can "now" try to develop with at least DJ Moore and part of an OL in place.
Lot to unravel here.
1st off, yes we all agree that last season was a teardown year and the roster had little talent especially in the 2nd half. But there is no way you can know that Mahomes or Caleb would/will "fail here". Stroud isn't failing in Houston and they were a horrid team last year, one of the few teams we actually beat. If you believe that any QB "would fail here" then you may as well quit being a fan. That's a defeatist mentality.
BTW, Fields has a top-10 WR and a top-10 TE RIGHT NOW. And he still can't seem to throw for 3000 yards which is a low bar to begin with.
I honestly don't know what Poles is gonna do. There's big risk either way. If he does keep Justin, that pretty much means you're running the same coaching staff back again. That sounds awful to me.
Personally, I'm out on Fields at this point as I think his ceiling as a passer is simply not high enough. His contract has only one more cheap year left. Poles isn't tied to Fields. Getsy needs to go (as we all agree) and no way you're gonna give Justin a 3rd OC in 4 seasons, right?
All those factors point to Poles moving on in my mind.
Except if you averaged out his stats this season for a full 17 games, he would throw for over 3k yards.