LMAO indeed. Sacks are worse than hits, which is one reason the Jones rookies both have higher PFF grades than Wright. The other reason is that they don’t have nearly as many penalties as Wright.
And I did not write a comment on that article, but I do appreciate the research that person did to compile the data on Poles roster.
Last I checked when you sack the QB you hit them...no?
Better check again. If he goes down, that’s a sack, not a hit. He can get hit without going down and throw a TD or run for first down on third down. Fields has done it many times. That’s one reason why a sack counts more than a hit, and why all 3 Jones (Brax, Dewand, Broderick) have higher PFF grades than Wright. Dewand is the best pass blocker of the whole group.
Gordon and Brisker are no more than average starters. Stevenson needs to be replaced this offseason. Dexter and Pickens have shown very little, and PFF grades reflect. NOTHING Poles has drafted so far projects much above average, and that includes Wright and his 60 grade. Do you recall that Brax was about 75 his rookie year?
Yes, I know that. By recruit, I mean he was hired by Poles. Webster: “to secure the services of”
Then you should be more accurate Mr. Webster. He was a Flus recruit because he played in his defense in Indy. But you got a narrative to weakly defend...so have at it.
I didn’t say he was drafted by Poles. I said he was recruited, and I did quote Webster correctly “secure the services of” You can secure the services of a player by draft, free agency, or trade.
But if you got a narrative to weakly defend….have at it.
Here's the stupidity of this post...and I'll directly relate it to Fields, as I've been thinking a lot about this lately. David says guys draft THIS YEAR, who have shown flashes of excellent play, need to be replaced. Think about that absolutely CRAZY statement! He's a second round rookie, and apparently the book is already written on him. And who are you replacing him with? Another 2nd or 3rd round rookie? A free agent? WHO???!!!
That brings me to Fields. He's in his 3rd year. His first year was an absolute waste. Nagy wouldn't even let him take snaps with the 1's in camp, and then wouldn't call an offense that suited his strengths. Then Flus and Poles came in his second year and tore the team down and he had SHIT to work with. Absolute SHIT! And he did whatever he could to try and help this team win games and compete, while attempting to throw to guys who aren't even in the league this year. Now this year he finally gets some o-lineman and a legit receiver, and he's on pace to hit numbers we deemed acceptable to begin the year, and he needs to be replaced. We're in such a rush for these guys to be excellent, and I blame Mahomes and the Chiefs for this. Everyone wants to copy that "model" but everyone forgets Mahomes got dropped into a READY MADE situation!!! They had a great o-line, they had Kelce, they had Tyreek Hill, they had a great play caller in Andy Reed...when the frig has Fields had anything REMOTELY close??!!! And now this year, with Kelce being hurt and Hill gone (and Nagy calling plays), you see the impact that has had on Mahomes. Tua had his owner breaking rules to try an get Brady to come to Miami...he gets Hill and a competent play caller and now he's an MVP candidate. NEWS FLASH...TALENT MATTERS AND SO DOES COACHING!!!! Surround Fields with more talent and if you can't win with that, thats a YOU problem. Just like if you can't win with Hurts, AJ Brown, DeVonta Smith, and that o-line...thats a YOU problem.
Poles has added talent to this team. It should be better than it is. If they keep Fields and draft an MHjr or Odunze and another weapon plus add to the o-line there IS NO REASON this team should not win...except for coaching. Bottom line, end of story.
That makes a lot of sense to me. I think some fans see things is stark images of black and white. There are no shades of gray between the two. One team or one QB will do something great and these fans measure anything less than that accomplishment by the Bears as a failure. To make matters worse, they don't understand that there is a time factor with the development of these athletes. They are not machines created on a factory assembly line. They are unique human beings that mature as athletes on different timelines. Fans (some fans) are expecting instant gratification. Just one example is Poles being seen as a failure by some, before his 2nd season is in the books. Think about that one. The Bears hire a 1st time GM who is extremely young (he was 36 years old) and he understandably, like any GM (even veteran GMs) he makes some mistakes. They want him fired. I don't get that. We are less than 24 months into this guys GM learning curve and they want him fired. That (to me) is bat-shit crazy thinking. But these fans magnify every single mistake (or imagined mistake that exists only in the minds of these guys) and point to them as reasons to fire the guy. It's similar with their player evaluations. Guys are deemed failures as rookies, or second year players. Player development learning curves don't exist in their minds. Player "A" is a failure due to him not being as successful as some dude on another team in another coaching/scheme with different supporting talent around him - who did better. It really really really is pretty nuts, but some people see the world in these sheer black-and-white ways. Some (not all by any means, but some) of these guys go on to put these guys under a microscope trying to "see" any negatives that they can jump on and point out as validation for their views. It's like these "fans" want these guys to fail to justify their views. It's not about the team winning anymore, but rather being proven right.
I have no clue as to how the Bears will handle any of this. Personally, I go back and forth as to what I think should be done this off season. LOL, I change my mind daily on some of these guys. But I am really trying to hold judgment until the season is in the books. Depending upon how these final games go, I could see one scenario where everyone except Getsy keeps their job. But I could see it go the other way and Eberflus is fired too. We'll just have to wait and see. I do think that Poles should be safe. If Fields finishes well, then I hope he stays too.
Gordon, Brisker, and Stevenson are all starters. Dexter and Pickens are finally pushing for more reps over Jones and I think Flus is partly to blame for delaying that move. Edmunds I haven't been a huge fan of so far but Edwards has been lights out.
If you had a point there, you failed to make it.
Yes, need more blue chip players no question. We have only had 1 FRP pick to work with so far in the Poles era. Coming Soon
I repeat, the reason(s) the Bears are 4-8 instead of 7-5 or 6-6 are A) their coaching staff blows chunks and B) Fields remains disapppinting as a passer. At least inconsistently impressive anyway. Whether it’s the QB or the coaches or most likely both, these guys haven't "taken the next step" as we all hoped back in August.
Gordon and Brisker are no more than average starters. Stevenson needs to be replaced this offseason. Dexter and Pickens have shown very little, and PFF grades reflect. NOTHING Poles has drafted so far projects much above average, and that includes Wright and his 60 grade. Do you recall that Brax was about 75 his rookie year?
False & false
Dex has been coming on lately and I'd remind you he was given very little PT early in the season as these coaches wanted the vet Jones in there instead. They have coached the whole season to save their jobs rather than to truly develop the roster. Hoge reported that Poles had a talk with Flus a few weeks ago and let him know Dexter and Pickens needed more snaps and Justin Jones (we all know what he is already) needed less. Not surprisingly, we started making some plays from the DT position that weren't happening before.
I think sometimes you just like to be negative and argumentative. I know you love PFF grades but they're hardly definitive, especially on a small sample size with a crappy DL (pre-Sweat). And you sure as hell know that 10-12 games is way too soon to pass judgement on any player unless they're massively Velus-level-bad.
You seem to act like every rookie who isn't an instant star "needs to be replaced" when every coach worth their salt knows that most players make their biggest jump in season 2. Maybe the Rams should have "replaced" Cooper Kupp. Among dozens of other examples.
This borders on the ridiculous and Ryan Poles isn't getting fired, nor should he be.
His predecessor busted a slew of picks his first 3 drafts and somehow survived 4 more years. I think Poles has plenty of leash still, particularly with a boatload of draft and FA capital to work with coming up.
You seem to act like every rookie who isn't an instant star "needs to be replaced" when every coach worth their salt knows that most players make their biggest jump in season 2. Maybe the Rams should have "replaced" Cooper Kupp. Among dozens of other examples.
+1 Even more than that, MP. There are countless examples of players struggling the first couple of years in the NFL and then becoming very good players.
Here is another Poles recruit. Muhammad was just suspended by the league for drug use.
He was not a Poles recruit. He was a 2017, 6th round pick by the Saints. He was signed here as a FA in 2022. He played a season and was released by the Bears. He's with the Colts again now.
Exactly
He was a stopgap FA signing in a teardown season who was coming off his best football the year prior. He sucked here in 2022 and was released as he should have been.
Nothing else to see here. This kind of stuff with lottery ticket FAs happens on almost every team almost every year.
Seriously, David, please stop trolling. You know Muhammed was the minor-est of "misses" and every GM has those all the time.
Here's the stupidity of this post...and I'll directly relate it to Fields, as I've been thinking a lot about this lately. David says guys draft THIS YEAR, who have shown flashes of excellent play, need to be replaced. Think about that absolutely CRAZY statement! He's a second round rookie, and apparently the book is already written on him. And who are you replacing him with? Another 2nd or 3rd round rookie? A free agent? WHO???!!!
That brings me to Fields. He's in his 3rd year. His first year was an absolute waste. Nagy wouldn't even let him take snaps with the 1's in camp, and then wouldn't call an offense that suited his strengths. Then Flus and Poles came in his second year and tore the team down and he had SHIT to work with. Absolute SHIT! And he did whatever he could to try and help this team win games and compete, while attempting to throw to guys who aren't even in the league this year. Now this year he finally gets some o-lineman and a legit receiver, and he's on pace to hit numbers we deemed acceptable to begin the year, and he needs to be replaced. We're in such a rush for these guys to be excellent, and I blame Mahomes and the Chiefs for this. Everyone wants to copy that "model" but everyone forgets Mahomes got dropped into a READY MADE situation!!! They had a great o-line, they had Kelce, they had Tyreek Hill, they had a great play caller in Andy Reed...when the frig has Fields had anything REMOTELY close??!!! And now this year, with Kelce being hurt and Hill gone (and Nagy calling plays), you see the impact that has had on Mahomes. Tua had his owner breaking rules to try an get Brady to come to Miami...he gets Hill and a competent play caller and now he's an MVP candidate. NEWS FLASH...TALENT MATTERS AND SO DOES COACHING!!!! Surround Fields with more talent and if you can't win with that, thats a YOU problem. Just like if you can't win with Hurts, AJ Brown, DeVonta Smith, and that o-line...thats a YOU problem.
Poles has added talent to this team. It should be better than it is. If they keep Fields and draft an MHjr or Odunze and another weapon plus add to the o-line there IS NO REASON this team should not win...except for coaching. Bottom line, end of story.
I agree with what you wrote and we will never know how Fields would look right now if he didn't have Nagy and Getsy as his OCs.
In reading the tea leaves, I think we are likely looking at Justin's last 5 games as a Bear coming up here. We have something like a 93% chance of getting a top-2 pick now per Tankathon and I think Poles is gonna reboot the whole thing to reset the contract clock and get the QB-HC-OC axis all aligned. Maybe I'm wrong--I go back and forth on what the are gonna do all the time--but I'm making a reasonable guess since Poles didn't draft Fields.
THAT is why I want Harbaugh. If we get him (and he will assemble an excellent subordinate staff too), we don't have to worry about screwing up another young QB due to sucky coaching. If we hire the favor-of-the-month hot coordinator to be a rookie HC, yeah you're taking a big risk the guy won't be up to the job........AGAIN
Gordon and Brisker are no more than average starters. Stevenson needs to be replaced this offseason. Dexter and Pickens have shown very little, and PFF grades reflect. NOTHING Poles has drafted so far projects much above average, and that includes Wright and his 60 grade. Do you recall that Brax was about 75 his rookie year?
False & false
Dex has been coming on lately and I'd remind you he was given very little PT early in the season as these coaches wanted the vet Jones in there instead. They have coached the whole season to save their jobs rather than to truly develop the roster. Hoge reported that Poles had a talk with Flus a few weeks ago and let him know Dexter and Pickens needed more snaps and Justin Jones (we all know what he is already) needed less. Not surprisingly, we started making some plays from the DT position that weren't happening before.
I think sometimes you just like to be negative and argumentative. I know you love PFF grades but they're hardly definitive, especially on a small sample size with a crappy DL (pre-Sweat). And you sure as hell know that 10-12 games is way too soon to pass judgement on any player unless they're massively Velus-level-bad.
You seem to act like every rookie who isn't an instant star "needs to be replaced" when every coach worth their salt knows that most players make their biggest jump in season 2. Maybe the Rams should have "replaced" Cooper Kupp. Among dozens of other examples.
This borders on the ridiculous and Ryan Poles isn't getting fired, nor should he be.
His predecessor busted a slew of picks his first 3 drafts and somehow survived 4 more years. I think Poles has plenty of leash still, particularly with a boatload of draft and FA capital to work with coming up.
Stevenson is a starting CB. That is a critically important position if we are to be competitive in the division next year. He is performing below average, even among starting rookie CBs. He is #10 of 10 in ranking grades of Bears rookies, according to Bearswire article. Will he be good enough by next year? Maybe so. I will acknowledge that, and already have. That is not the difference between us. The difference between us is that I see him as a big gamble, if we don’t RECRUIT (via draft or FA) someone as insurance in the event that he doesn’t progress.
Butkus and I agree on Fields, but could be dead wrong.
Dex has been coming on lately and I'd remind you he was given very little PT early in the season as these coaches wanted the vet Jones in there instead. They have coached the whole season to save their jobs rather than to truly develop the roster. Hoge reported that Poles had a talk with Flus a few weeks ago and let him know Dexter and Pickens needed more snaps and Justin Jones (we all know what he is already) needed less. Not surprisingly, we started making some plays from the DT position that weren't happening before.
I think sometimes you just like to be negative and argumentative. I know you love PFF grades but they're hardly definitive, especially on a small sample size with a crappy DL (pre-Sweat). And you sure as hell know that 10-12 games is way too soon to pass judgement on any player unless they're massively Velus-level-bad.
You seem to act like every rookie who isn't an instant star "needs to be replaced" when every coach worth their salt knows that most players make their biggest jump in season 2. Maybe the Rams should have "replaced" Cooper Kupp. Among dozens of other examples.
This borders on the ridiculous and Ryan Poles isn't getting fired, nor should he be.
His predecessor busted a slew of picks his first 3 drafts and somehow survived 4 more years. I think Poles has plenty of leash still, particularly with a boatload of draft and FA capital to work with coming up.
Stevenson is a starting CB. That is a critically important position if we are to be competitive in the division next year. He is performing below average, even among starting rookie CBs. Will he be good enough by next year? Maybe so. I will acknowledge that, and already have. That is not the difference between us. The difference between us is that I see him as a big gamble, if we don’t RECRUIT (via draft or FA) someone as insurance in the event that he doesn’t progress.
Butkus and I agree on Fields, but could be dead wrong.
You realize Stevenson is coming off his best game right?
He had a FF, and INT, and allowed zero receptions against one of the league's better pass offenses. Man, give the kid a chance! Anyone who didn't foresee TS getting nailed for PI a bunch as a rookie hasn't watched much NFL football. That he would have a rough start was about as easy to predict as the sun rising in the east.
Regardless, you don't give up on a promising, talented young player after 12 games. That's plain stupid. Jaylon Johnson is playing the best ball of his career right now (Cole Kmet too) and they're in year 4.
