And I haven't see any upward trajectory this year to make me think things are going to change.
You could be right. But I still want to give him the full season to show what he can, and can't do now. Wouldn't it be just like the "Bears bad luck" to cut Fields and have him go to another team and be solid for them? Like the Packers cutting Kurt Warner who went on to have a Hall of Fame career. What does it hurt to let him play out this last half of the season - and if he can't improve then by all means move on from him. I just want to see this last half of the season... but you ARE right in that he hasn't proven he's worth keeping yet.
Oh I want Fields to play every snap he can for the rest of the year. That way there is no doubt when they move on from him.
4300 yards of offense and 35 touchdowns ALL against "garbage defenses"...interesting. Didn't play even one decent defense in his last 17 games?
Yes. Fields tends to rack up a lot of TDs against bad defenses then little to nothing against good ones, other than the occasional garbage time one. As ric pointed out earlier those stats aren't actually that impressive compared to other teams. Look at his last 5 games. 4TDs against Wash and Denver. 1 or less vs everyone else. And the Wash game was almost entirely a DJ Moore show, most of those yards coming after the catch. Can he make a few pretty throws a game? Sure. But when an undrafted Div 2 rookie comes in and has as good or better control of the offense than Fields, what does that say about Fields? He's in his third year. He should look a lot better than this by now. And I haven't see any upward trajectory this year to make me think things are going to change.
I'm just trying to understand the way some people view this thing...the TEAM has shit for talent, but the QB should play like a stud is basically what I'm getting. This year they add a legit receiver to do what legit receivers are supposed to do, but now its a NEGATIVE for Fields to throw the ball to the legit receiver and let him do what he does. That makes sense. Aaron Rodgers clearly wasn't impressive because most of his yards were gained on short passes Davante Adams and then Adams doing work after the catch...right?
As for the undrafted Div 2 rookie coming and having "as good or better control of the offense"...staahp it. The only thing Bagent did better than Fields...THE ONLY THING...was get the ball out of his hands quickly. Thats it.
I'm just trying to understand the way some people view this thing...the TEAM has shit for talent, but the QB should play like a stud is basically what I'm getting.
I think one trap we fans fall into (myself included) is to over-simplify where the blame lies in these situations. I think we can get lost in the weeds a bit and forget that when Poles/Eberflus arrived and we fans wanted "to blow it all up" well, they did just that. I read where the team went into this 2023 season with 30 new players this year. When we did our pole about expectations for this season most of us said the team would be around 7 or 8 wins at best. Everybody understood this was going to be a grim year. In theory a rebuild (blow it all up thing) is not that bad, but in actually living that kind of season out, well, it's not so easy and fans quickly lose patience after 5 or 6 games are in the books and the team only has a couple of wins. Then the "blame game" begins in earnest. We want everyone fired. We want the QB cut.
Fans really don't have the backbone for a "blow it all up" scenario.
I still believe Fields could do better this last half of the season. I base that on two or three games where the team did look like it was coming together better. Better defense and even better offense. Even the OL did a bit better. The last (Chargers) game was bad but then again we said we'd have some of those this season... and we sure did there. Plenty of blame to go around (not just the Division-II backup QB).
I suspect we will have a mix of good and bad games in this second half of the season. But I could certainly see that we could have some improvement - and I don't want to close my mind at this point. Not saying miracles will happen, but saying I want to watch these 9 games before I make up my mind about coaches and players. LOL, in other words I'm open to the possibility that some of these guys could redeem themselves. Or not. We'll see.
I'm just trying to understand the way some people view this thing...the TEAM has shit for talent, but the QB should play like a stud is basically what I'm getting.
I think one trap we fans fall into (myself included) is to over-simplify where the blame lies in these situations. I think we can get lost in the weeds a bit and forget that when Poles/Eberflus arrived and we fans wanted "to blow it all up" well, they did just that. I read where the team went into this 2023 season with 30 new players this year. When we did our pole about expectations for this season most of us said the team would be around 7 or 8 wins at best. Everybody understood this was going to be a grim year. In theory a rebuild (blow it all up thing) is not that bad, but in actually living that kind of season out, well, it's not so easy and fans quickly lose patience after 5 or 6 games are in the books and the team only has a couple of wins. Then the "blame game" begins in earnest. We want everyone fired. We want the QB cut.
Fans really don't have the backbone for a "blow it all up" scenario.
I still believe Fields could do better this last half of the season. I base that on two or three games where the team did look like it was coming together better. Better defense and even better offense. Even the OL did a bit better. The last (Chargers) game was bad but then again we said we'd have some of those this season... and we sure did there. Plenty of blame to go around (not just the Division-II backup QB).
I suspect we will have a mix of good and bad games in this second half of the season. But I could certainly see that we could have some improvement - and I don't want to close my mind at this point. Not saying miracles will happen, but saying I want to watch these 9 games before I make up my mind about coaches and players. LOL, in other words I'm open to the possibility that some of these guys could redeem themselves. Or not. We'll see.
I'm pretty much there with you JABF...though my patience has worn very thin with this coaching staff. This team could plausibly win 4 more games, and I'd love to NOT have to get a new QB and use those 2 high first round picks to improve other areas, like WR and potentially o-line or defensive line.
Your point about fans not having the backbone for a "blow it all up" scenario is spot on...which is why a lot of teams and GM's don't have the COURAGE to do it. I hear it all the time here in NY when fans call up and complain about the Yankees...but the majority of those fans weren't alive in the 80's when the Yankees absolutely sucked and they wouldn't be able to take that kind of season, and the Yankees know it(plus those fans are spoiled LOL...like I said, they weren't in Yankee stadium with me in the 80's when me and my dad would buy cheap seats and be able to move to seats by the dugout cause nobody was there!)
At this point that's not an excuse. This team certainly has enough talent for adequate QB play, which Fields cannot produce consistently. He doesn't read the field well, he doesn't throw with anticipation, and he is slow on his throws. Watch any break down by other QBs and they point these things out over and over. It's obvious at this point.
Yes he has extraordinary physical talent but you need other traits along with that in the NFL and in 3 years he hasn't shown that he has those traits.
At this point that's not an excuse. This team certainly has enough talent for adequate QB play, which Fields cannot produce consistently. He doesn't read the field well, he doesn't throw with anticipation, and he is slow on his throws. Watch any break down by other QBs and they point these things out over and over. It's obvious at this point.
Yes he has extraordinary physical talent but you need other traits along with that in the NFL and in 3 years he hasn't shown that he has those traits.
Team talent matters. Of all the team sports, perhaps professional level football is more heavily dependent upon overall team talent than any other sport that I can think of. Even within individual units (like the offensive line for example) the overall play level is dependent upon playing well together. On offense it is like a complex and finely choreographed set of play action that requires chemistry and timing. Even being off by 1-second can make or break a play. For example a WR has to be WHERE he is supposed to be, the instant he is SUPPOSED to be there - otherwise at best it's a failed play and at worst it is an interception.
Talent matters.
Fans translate this highly complex set of moving parts and factors into "the QB sucks" when yeah, he may suck - but he may be struggling for a reason (or reasons like failed coaching, OL, play calling, WRs not running correct routes or catching balls that ARE catchable). I'm not defending Fields' play here. He certainly has struggled so far. But I understand the fact that there ARE multiple levels of failure surrounding him too.
Last night I watched the "Generational Talent" quarterback that Bears fans are gushing over acquiring, Caleb Williams from USC. The dude failed his team under pressure last night. He didn't protect the football and fumbled it away at the last minute of the first half costing the team dearly (Washington scored a TD with the ball going into the half). Under pressure he was inaccurate at the end of the game in particular winging the ball missing guys - and not seeing guys who were open. They lost their 3rd game of the season and he looked much like Fields at times. I thought to myself how he would not thrive here under the pressure that the Bears have provided Justin Fields. But the meatball fans equate all of this to "draft Caleb and it will all be good" - but I think it takes more than just drafting more quarterbacks here in Chicago. At some point you need to, you know, give them what they need to thrive here. Talent matters and if you can't do better than what the Bears have done in past decades (where over 40 different starting QBs have failed) then nothing is going to change.
riczaj01 has been beating this drum for a long time now. The team needs to bring in the talent so that a QB can thrive here. Until they do. Well. Don't expect "drafting another guy" is gonna change anything. LOL, how has THAT worked for us over the past decades? It hasn't and it won't.
At this point that's not an excuse. This team certainly has enough talent for adequate QB play, which Fields cannot produce consistently. He doesn't read the field well, he doesn't throw with anticipation, and he is slow on his throws. Watch any break down by other QBs and they point these things out over and over. It's obvious at this point.
Yes he has extraordinary physical talent but you need other traits along with that in the NFL and in 3 years he hasn't shown that he has those traits.
I didn't say it was an excuse...THIS YEAR...but this year hasn't been 17 games yet...has it? He reads the field fine...yes he doesn't throw with anticipation consistently and he holds the ball too long some times...but shit...so does Pat Mahomes. He's a big game hunter. You need to call an offense that works for that mentality, not the BS we've been seeing. Some other team is going to win with Fields...mark my words.
At this point that's not an excuse. This team certainly has enough talent for adequate QB play, which Fields cannot produce consistently. He doesn't read the field well, he doesn't throw with anticipation, and he is slow on his throws. Watch any break down by other QBs and they point these things out over and over. It's obvious at this point.
Yes he has extraordinary physical talent but you need other traits along with that in the NFL and in 3 years he hasn't shown that he has those traits.
Team talent matters. Of all the team sports, perhaps professional level football is more heavily dependent upon overall team talent than any other sport that I can think of. Even within individual units (like the offensive line for example) the overall play level is dependent upon playing well together. On offense it is like a complex and finely choreographed set of play action that requires chemistry and timing. Even being off by 1-second can make or break a play. For example a WR has to be WHERE he is supposed to be, the instant he is SUPPOSED to be there - otherwise at best it's a failed play and at worst it is an interception.
Talent matters.
Fans translate this highly complex set of moving parts and factors into "the QB sucks" when yeah, he may suck - but he may be struggling for a reason (or reasons like failed coaching, OL, play calling, WRs not running correct routes or catching balls that ARE catchable). I'm not defending Fields' play here. He certainly has struggled so far. But I understand the fact that there ARE multiple levels of failure surrounding him too.
Last night I watched the "Generational Talent" quarterback that Bears fans are gushing over acquiring, Caleb Williams from USC. The dude failed his team under pressure last night. He didn't protect the football and fumbled it away at the last minute of the first half costing the team dearly (Washington scored a TD with the ball going into the half). Under pressure he was inaccurate at the end of the game in particular winging the ball missing guys - and not seeing guys who were open. They lost their 3rd game of the season and he looked much like Fields at times. I thought to myself how he would not thrive here under the pressure that the Bears have provided Justin Fields. But the meatball fans equate all of this to "draft Caleb and it will all be good" - but I think it takes more than just drafting more quarterbacks here in Chicago. At some point you need to, you know, give them what they need to thrive here. Talent matters and if you can't do better than what the Bears have done in past decades (where over 40 different starting QBs have failed) then nothing is going to change.
riczaj01 has been beating this drum for a long time now. The team needs to bring in the talent so that a QB can thrive here. Until they do. Well. Don't expect "drafting another guy" is gonna change anything. LOL, how has THAT worked for us over the past decades? It hasn't and it won't.
This is where I'm at JABF. Fields is GOOD ENOUGH to win with IMO. Surround him with some damn talent and see what he can do. My hope is he shows enough to go into the draft with the idea of getting Marvin Harrison Jr. and another offensive piece...be it left tackle or tight end. Has the talent improved on this team this year? Yes. Is it great? No. I'm not ready to close the door on Fields, and clearly he gives you more of a shot than Bagent does.
I’m leaning the same way, takes far too long to process the field and also to get the ball out. He can obviously light it up, but then he fumbles and tosses a bad interception costing us the game. Stats look great, but the end result was still a loss…. Have to see a lot of improvement over the rest of the year, before I’m ready to write him a check.
I must have missed all the talent on this team that was being held back by Fields...
Not referring to Fields here but I find the "lack of talent" thing to be a little hard to swallow.
I am certainly not claiming the Bears roster is stacked by any means first of all, obviously not. But I can't get over how little has been done with what there is.
A little over a year ago, the Bears beat New England on the road to get to a 3-4 record at the time. Little did we know that would be the "high water mark" of the Flus/Getsy era. Since then, Flutsy has gone 2-17 which is almost hard to do given how the NFL is designed to promote parity. They have not beaten a single QB who isn't, lets be honest here, totally shitty and backup quality at best.
Since the halfway point of last season after the Quinn & Smith trades here's some of the talent that has been added to the current roster: Billings (DL) Walker (DL) Ngakoue (DL) Dexter (DL) Pickens (DL) Davis (OL) Wright (OL) Edmunds (LB) Edwards (LB) Stevenson (CB) Foreman (RB) RoJo (RB) Moore (WR) Scott (WR)
[I'm leaving out more minor additions and leaving out Sweat as he just got here.]
Tell me this -- has the team improved over the last year? Not at all. The only facet you can say has shown substantial growth is the run defense with Billings getting most of the credit for that. Everything else remains the same. The team still loses almost all their games and still often looks uncompetitive and unprepared. And keep in mind our schedule has been incredibly soft all that time. This season we have played only one definite playoff caliber team.
They STILL can't line up right! Cole Kmet pointed that out honestly after Sunday's game. They still commit too many penalties, including pre-snap ones almost every game. They still can't sustain any offensive rhythm, especially in the passing game (which is way, way more important in today's NFL). They still don't take the ball away much. They still are struggling to develop young players (Wright being the notable exception). They still can't snap the damn ball accurately! They are still running Velus out there when its clear to the dumbest fan that he blows and should be released. They still can't rush the passer. Walker & Ngakoue had 8 sacks each last year. Sweat had 6.5 in 8 games with Washington. And Bears D still can't pressure the QB at all.
My bottom line here is that sufficient talent has been added over the last year such that THE TEAM SHOULD NOT BE STILL THIS BAD. None of us expected miracles this season. But 7-8 wins against a weak schedule was certainly a reasonable projection.
These coaches SUCK. Simple as that. I don't see anywhere near enough improvement in any phase to justify keeping these guys one day past Black Monday.
I must have missed all the talent on this team that was being held back by Fields...
Not referring to Fields here but I find the "lack of talent" thing to be a little hard to swallow.
I am certainly not claiming the Bears roster is stacked by any means first of all, obviously not. But I can't get over how little has been done with what there is.
A little over a year ago, the Bears beat New England on the road to get to a 3-4 record at the time. Little did we know that would be the "high water mark" of the Flus/Getsy era. Since then, Flutsy has gone 2-17 which is almost hard to do given how the NFL is designed to promote parity. They have not beaten a single QB who isn't, lets be honest here, totally shitty and backup quality at best.
Since the halfway point of last season after the Quinn & Smith trades here's some of the talent that has been added to the current roster: Billings (DL) Walker (DL) Ngakoue (DL) Dexter (DL) Pickens (DL) Davis (OL) Wright (OL) Edmunds (LB) Edwards (LB) Stevenson (CB) Foreman (RB) RoJo (RB) Moore (WR) Scott (WR)
[I'm leaving out more minor additions and leaving out Sweat as he just got here.]
Tell me this -- has the team improved over the last year? Not at all. The only facet you can say has shown substantial growth is the run defense with Billings getting most of the credit for that. Everything else remains the same. The team still loses almost all their games and still often looks uncompetitive and unprepared. And keep in mind our schedule has been incredibly soft all that time. This season we have played only one definite playoff caliber team.
They STILL can't line up right! Cole Kmet pointed that out honestly after Sunday's game. They still commit too many penalties, including pre-snap ones almost every game. They still can't sustain any offensive rhythm, especially in the passing game (which is way, way more important in today's NFL). They still don't take the ball away much. They still are struggling to develop young players (Wright being the notable exception). They are still running Velus out there when its clear to the dumbest fan that he blows and should be released. They still can't rush the passer. Walker & Ngakoue had 8 sacks each last year. Sweat had 6.5 in 8 games with Washington. And Bears D still can't pressure the QB at all.
My bottom line here is that sufficient talent has been added over the last year such that THE TEAM SHOULD NOT BE STILL THIS BAD. None of us expected miracles this season. But 7-8 wins against a weak schedule was certainly a reasonable projection.
These coaches SUCK. Simple as that. I don't see anywhere near enough improvement in any phase to justify keeping these guys one day past Black Monday.
That is my take on it too. Poles HAS provided quality players. Maybe not all-pros and HoFrs, but certainly the guys listed are starters on just about any team. Our roster is way better than last year. But the result is worse. Why? Coaches. They suck. Plain and simple. Some people like to argue about contracts. That's meaningless. It's the coaches that are screwing this team up. Look at the half-time adjustments. players out of position. Not knowing their assignments. Penalties. bad tackling, etc - basically a complete lack of solid fundamentals. Our coaches SUCK. I've been saying this for a while. Flush 'em all. Now. Why wait till the end of the season? Promote a few temp guys and let Poles start his search NOW. That's if Warren has balls and the authority to make a decision on Poles. Whether he keeps Poles or fires him doesn't really bother me either way, though I'd prefer to keep him. I think the guy has done okay so far, and he's young. Let him grow and learn. But the HC and coordinators must be replaced ASAP.