It's Time To Start Peeling The Onion...........

shark86
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Suffering from Bears FHDD

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It's Time To Start Peeling The Onion........... Nov 16, 2016 13:00:10 GMT -6 riczaj01 and JABF like this

Post by shark86 on Nov 16, 2016 13:00:10 GMT -6

Nov 16, 2016 11:37:41 GMT -6 JABF said:

Ditka was handed one of the most talented rosters in NFL history, IMHO. Hall-of-Fame talent. A small army of Pro-Bowl players. Walter Payton was still having good seasons (he had over 1,300 yards in '86). He also had a defense that was one of the best in NFL history. He had a DC in Buddy Ryan who was the greatest DC in Bears history. His OC, Ed Hughs was no slouch either. The team was loaded.

How did Mike Ditka not win 2 or 3 more Super Bowls when handed all of that?

Most of this is my opinion, and is from my memories of having lived through it all, so this could be way off...

Like Soul said, a big part was the Charles Martin assault. It was career-ending. Yes, McMahon still played afterward, but never to the level he did prior. That one criminal assault cost us the super bowl that year (along with the mentioned weak-ass backup QB - the '86 defense was actually better than the '85 D). After that? Egos. Everybody had 'em. Mikey for one. The family chased out all the old-timers from the front office. All the knowledge of how to run a team, how to recruit, how to draft, all the contacts, all the respect - gone. Then they got cheap with the players. A bunch of the good ones left. Ditka was a part of it too. As much as I liked Ditka's playing days, and as an HC his ability to get good play out of his team (up to the the superbowl win), after that, he went a little nuts. He ordered the players not to do commercials and make paid appearances, and went around making a lot of money doing that himself. The players were understandably pissed. And the players developed their own egos. It all avalanched and we've been a laughing stock ever since. And the avalanche is apparently still going down the mountain today...

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Bears FHDD = Frustration, Heartache, Disgust and Despair Syndrome

JABF
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It's Time To Start Peeling The Onion........... Nov 16, 2016 13:14:57 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 16, 2016 13:14:57 GMT -6

Nov 16, 2016 12:27:43 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Nov 16, 2016 11:37:41 GMT -6 JABF said:

Ditka was handed one of the most talented rosters in NFL history, IMHO. Hall-of-Fame talent. A small army of Pro-Bowl players. Walter Payton was still having good seasons (he had over 1,300 yards in '86). He also had a defense that was one of the best in NFL history. He had a DC in Buddy Ryan who was the greatest DC in Bears history. His OC, Ed Hughs was no slouch either. The team was loaded.

How did Mike Ditka not win 2 or 3 more Super Bowls when handed all of that?

Pretty much the same problem we have now. His backup QBs were nowhere as good as his starter and his starter couldn't stay on the field. Of course Charles Martin (may maggots infest his rotting corpse) had a hand in that. It was still an era when it was open game on QBs and Mac became open game one too many times. I still believe that body slam was a career ender for him.

You can win a Super Bowl with an elite QB but not without a competent QB.

Great point.
I know I'm getting off topic here about the past, but one last point. I will always believe a good backup could have been Doug Flute - if they had given him a better chance. We brought him in in October (he had never played in the NFL up to that point) and he was thrown to the wolves for 4 games. He looked terrible. But he went on to play 21 seasons between the NFL and CFL (he passed for more than 58,000 yards). Certainly he would have been a good backup (better than guys like Steve Fuller who were so painful to watch). I also think you're right about McMahon. He played a number of years after that injury, but was never quite the same player.

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JABF
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It's Time To Start Peeling The Onion........... Nov 16, 2016 13:33:00 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 16, 2016 13:33:00 GMT -6

Nov 16, 2016 13:00:10 GMT -6 shark86 said:

Nov 16, 2016 11:37:41 GMT -6 JABF said:

Ditka was handed one of the most talented rosters in NFL history, IMHO. Hall-of-Fame talent. A small army of Pro-Bowl players. Walter Payton was still having good seasons (he had over 1,300 yards in '86). He also had a defense that was one of the best in NFL history. He had a DC in Buddy Ryan who was the greatest DC in Bears history. His OC, Ed Hughs was no slouch either. The team was loaded.

How did Mike Ditka not win 2 or 3 more Super Bowls when handed all of that?

Most of this is my opinion, and is from my memories of having lived through it all, so this could be way off...

Like Soul said, a big part was the Charles Martin assault. It was career-ending. Yes, McMahon still played afterward, but never to the level he did prior. That one criminal assault cost us the super bowl that year (along with the mentioned weak-ass backup QB - the '86 defense was actually better than the '85 D). After that? Egos. Everybody had 'em. Mikey for one. The family chased out all the old-timers from the front office. All the knowledge of how to run a team, how to recruit, how to draft, all the contacts, all the respect - gone. Then they got cheap with the players. A bunch of the good ones left. Ditka was a part of it too. As much as I liked Ditka's playing days, and as an HC his ability to get good play out of his team (up to the the superbowl win), after that, he went a little nuts. He ordered the players not to do commercials and make paid appearances, and went around making a lot of money doing that himself. The players were understandably pissed. And the players developed their own egos. It all avalanched and we've been a laughing stock ever since. And the avalanche is apparently still going down the mountain today...

+1
But one thing that also crippled him as a coach was the 1987 player's strike. He lost the respect of the team's players. They never gave a rip what he said after how he handled himself there:

"To a man, the players couldn`t stand to look Ditka in the eye anymore, or listen to his motivational spiels. Not after what he had said. In meetings, players sat slumped in chairs, sunglasses on, blindly staring into space.
"

Adds Singletary, ``Backing the replacement players was the single biggest mistake of his coaching career-it was like civil war, a fatal mistake. He tore our heart out. We didn`t want to play for him anymore. That`s when he lost the team . . . it took us a long, long time to trust him again.``

Unfortunately, Ditka came to his senses a couple years too late.Singletary now terms it the ``turning point`` in the rise and fall of the Chicago Bears football team the last six years. ``When he turned his back on us, we felt abandoned

LINK

Coach `Lost` Bears During `87 Strike

September 01, 1992|By From ``Ditka: Monster of the Midway`` by Armen Keteyian.

After the Bears won their 1987 season opener by rocking the National Football League champion New York Giants 34-19 at Soldier Field, signs of Super Bowl fever swept the city once more-and coach Mike Ditka`s popularity hit new heights.

Ditka took advantage of his appeal and quickly boosted his price per commercial into the $75,000 to $100,000 range. Momentum flowed into other areas as well, particularly motivational speeches, where Ditka now commanded $20,000 per talk.

Some players began grumbling. On one hand Ditka had cautioned his players to cut down on endorsements and devote more time to returning to the Super Bowl. On the other hand, he was selling a piece of himself every chance he could.

``Some of the players were saying that Coach Ditka was doing too much,``

says former Bears cornerback Lorenzo Lynch, now trying to survive the final rosters cuts with the Phoenix Cardinals. ``A lot of people talked under their breath. Players were complaining all the time, in the locker room, on the bus. Their comments started to rub off on people. He`d be talking and (the players would be saying), `Oh, he`s just gonna do it for himself.` ``

In week two of the `87 season, the Bears rolled to another win, 20-3 over Tampa Bay. By this time, NFL players were preparing to strike, stressing the same issue-free agency-that helped trigger a 1982 walkout and the current trial in Minneapolis. NFLPA Executive Director Gene Upshaw viewed the Bears as the linchpin of any labor unrest, knowing full well if Jim McMahon, Mike Singletary, Walter Payton, et al. supported a strike, the rest of the league would follow.

On the Friday before the game against Tampa Bay, player representative Singletary discussed various strike options with Ditka, who was none too pleased. ``Don`t do it, Mike,`` said the son of a legendary steelworkers union leader. ``It`s dumb, it`s stupid.``

Here is the LINK to the entire article (it's long)

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It's Time To Start Peeling The Onion...........

Post by shark86 on Nov 16, 2016 13:00:10 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 16, 2016 13:14:57 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Nov 16, 2016 13:33:00 GMT -6