Ric I'm done with this debate. You use opinion and fallacy as a substitute for fact far too often to ever think we could see this even close to the same way. Your dislike for Cutler is legendary and nothing will change that.
Just don't keep manipulating facts to make them fit your point of view. Just keep disliking him without any other reason than that. It's more honest than the way you often go about it.
If you believe Hoyer gives the Bears a better chance to win well then maybe you'll get your wish and Fox will either whine or blow enough smoke up peoples asses to get his way and Cutler will be gone while we continue to lose games behind Hoyer for another year while this magical QB we don't even have develops into our great deliverer.
Enjoy the dream because that's as close to reality as it will come.
I don't know that it hasn't been proven. No one is going to admit to a potential trade they decided not to do. But per usual where there is smoke there is fire.
And what did you have w/the last 2 HC's. 2 guys that benched Cutler for far lesser talent; why for the same issue he's always had, refusal to run the system. No doubt a HC/OC would tire of that quickly.
You know full well and good you back your players until they are no longer there. Pace failed that why they passed on qb's. Paced opted for an all or nothing; top qb prospect or none at all approach, which is a poor way of doing it.
You've always rejected reality when it came to Cutler so continue to do it; I'm fine w/that.
It has been proven. I told you that and the lack of any logic behind a trade for Cutler when the Titans were lined up on Mariotta proves it. There's only fire if you're the one with the matches or you choose to believe all the pre-draft hoo haa ESPN and the NFL Network have to churn out to keep viewer interest high.
Cutler has never refused to run a system even when Martz nearly got him killed with his.
And what two HCs benched him? Trestman benched him for one game in his dying attempts to keep his job and it was a miserable failure. Fox has never benched him.....yet, and now he can't. Come on Ric stick to facts. You aren't doing that here.
So you know exactly why Pace did what he did huh? I didn't realize you two were so close. What all or nothing approach? He could have traded back in round one and taken Lynch. Two or three more QBs went in rounds two and three and Prescott who even I though would make an ideal understudy to Cutler and for the kind of offense I envisioned the Bears running they passed on. So did he fail or was it simply because he and Fox had expressed their joint satisfaction with the progress Cutler had made last year and therefore QB was a lesser priority than other positions?
If you won't follow the logic trail of that then there's nothing more can say that you'd grasp either. None of your scenarios makes any sense and you're substituting fiction for fact trying to support your position even when you know that will never work with me.
The reality is Cutler is the best QB on this team and if you can even find 1% of knowledgeable football fans who would say differently I would be shocked. You've even turned your recent opinions of Hoyer around to suit your argument here and we can go back and look those up if you like.
Cutler is an above average passer with a bad habit of forcing throws to make plays because in order to win too many times it was the only choice he had. Put him on a better team and he'll win more games than he loses just as he did before the wheels fell off this team about 4 or 5 years ago. On any given week he's as good as a Joe Flacco or an Eli Manning, a Philip Rivers, or a Matt Ryan and a Matthew Stafford who have all had their own issues winning behind crappy team as well.
For Cutlers sake and for the sake of all the whiny ass fans who've forgotten how much worse it was before we even had a QB as "average" as Cutler is supposed to be I really do hope he's traded to a better team and then we'll all watch the Bears go through yet another decade of trying to find that magical franchise QB we never seem able to draft.
What's been proven, that Pace wanted Mariotta? I believe that completely, and I have no doubt he wanted to move up for Wentz also. Why wouldn't you want a talented young qb to start rebuilding your franchise around instead of an aging up never was?
Best on this team? Sure what the hell does that prove? That the team hasn't drafted one early enough to challenge him. He's the best in franchise history too way to leap that laughably short hurdle. Where does that rank him compared to other starting qb's playing right now, or historically? Currently at the bottom 1/3rd of the league and no where historically.
He's not above average at anything anymore. No better team would trade for him Soul, or he would have been traded already. No team in their right minds w/a shot at the playoffs wants him anywhere near their organization b/c he's a turnover waiting to happen, and those cost you games in the NFL, especially in the playoffs.
You've always had this idea that b/c of his 1yr w/Den that he was some great qb, he wasn't and isn't. For awhile he was a top 1/2 of the league qb, but he's not that guy anymore either, as the rules have changed making it easier to play QB in the NFL, he's fallen behind, well behind.
Ric I'm done with this debate. You use opinion and fallacy as a substitute for fact far too often to ever think we could see this even close to the same way. Your dislike for Cutler is legendary and nothing will change that.
Just don't keep manipulating facts to make them fit your point of view. Just keep disliking him without any other reason than that. It's more honest than the way you often go about it.
If you believe Hoyer gives the Bears a better chance to win well then maybe you'll get your wish and Fox will either whine or blow enough smoke up peoples asses to get his way and Cutler will be gone while we continue to lose games behind Hoyer for another year while this magical QB we don't even have develops into our great deliverer.
Enjoy the dream because that's as close to reality as it will come.
Where are your facts again? It's all heresay. Name the GM/HC/Owner that is upfront about getting rid of their starting qb, until it's already happened? McDaniels, who was a complete fool, and even he tried to keep it quite. You try and play on that and say there is no proof, but that is also false.
Have I ever backed Hoyer? Have I ever said Hoyer is a good Qb? Now who's manipulating facts?
I don't dislike Cutler, just his play b/c his play is bad and doesn't help the Bears win; which is backed by the fact that they haven't won w/him at QB; that's not all on him, but it's partially on him.
What happens when/if the next QB comes in and does play better then him? Let me guess, they finally got the OL, WR, HC, GM, OC, QBC, RB, TE, and Def all correct magically after Cutler left.
"With the franchise heading in the wrong direction, the team's brass has begun a full examination of the football operation from top to bottom, according to several sources briefed of their process."
This is the piece that we need to be centering on; this isn't about Cutler or Fox imo, thread got derailed. This group is looking at at HH, not players/coaches. Hopefully this means Swetty Teddy will be moved out of anything having to do w/football decisions, and others in HH might also be moved/fired. This is huge first step if anything comes of it.
I love George. This would not be happening so quickly in the past. He is doing the right thing. Find out what is wrong and then develop a course of action. If the article can be believed, Pace sounds safe for the short term, but some coaches are on the hot seat. My concern is that Vic may be one. Vic suffers no fools and my concern is that he may have been told to play people he did not think were ready. If so, he may be fed up. Depending on who told him to do it will depend on what happens. If it was Fox and he goes, probably ok. If it was Pace and he stays, he may not want to be here.
Stuff is definitely happening behind the scenes. And sounds like they really have not been behind Cutler for a while. Which makes it even more curious that no QB was brought in to learn. We are going to get a new kid and throw him in which most of the time does not work.
"With the franchise heading in the wrong direction, the team's brass has begun a full examination of the football operation from top to bottom, according to several sources briefed of their process."
This is the piece that we need to be centering on; this isn't about Cutler or Fox imo, thread got derailed. This group is looking at at HH, not players/coaches. Hopefully this means Swetty Teddy will be moved out of anything having to do w/football decisions, and others in HH might also be moved/fired. This is huge first step if anything comes of it.
To me the part worth centering on is " rival executives and coaches have roundly criticized almost everything the Bears have done this year " . Sure , no other team has a vested interest in how good the Bears are , but when you hear that people in the same business look at what they're doing and shake their heads , THAT speaks volumes ... cuz on some level , even opponents realize that the players and their fans deserve better .
So **** Ted Phillips and anyone else who thinks like him - the product on the field is way more important than 'the brand' .
"With the franchise heading in the wrong direction, the team's brass has begun a full examination of the football operation from top to bottom, according to several sources briefed of their process."
This is the piece that we need to be centering on; this isn't about Cutler or Fox imo, thread got derailed. This group is looking at at HH, not players/coaches. Hopefully this means Swetty Teddy will be moved out of anything having to do w/football decisions, and others in HH might also be moved/fired. This is huge first step if anything comes of it.
To me the part worth centering on is " rival executives and coaches have roundly criticized almost everything the Bears have done this year " . Sure , no other team has a vested interest in how good the Bears are , but when you hear that people in the same business look at what they're doing and shake their heads , THAT speaks volumes ... cuz on some level , even opponents realize that the players and their fans deserve better .
So **** Ted Phillips and anyone else who thinks like him - the product on the field is way more important than 'the brand' .
I think of it like when you go to a business event and you start talking business w/the competition. And everyone looks at that one company and it's like, wtsf are they doing and why? Who is running it, why did they hire him, and why did they hire who they hired? B/c that place is a F'n mess. Everyone knows, and eventually the company itself hears about it.
To me the part worth centering on is " rival executives and coaches have roundly criticized almost everything the Bears have done this year " . Sure , no other team has a vested interest in how good the Bears are , but when you hear that people in the same business look at what they're doing and shake their heads , THAT speaks volumes ... cuz on some level , even opponents realize that the players and their fans deserve better .
So **** Ted Phillips and anyone else who thinks like him - the product on the field is way more important than 'the brand' .
I think of it like when you go to a business event and you start talking business w/the competition. And everyone looks at that one company and it's like, wtsf are they doing and why? Who is running it, why did they hire him, and why did they hire who they hired? B/c that place is a F'n mess. Everyone knows, and eventually the company itself hears about it.
Shee-ot even the Browns & Bears are doing basically the same thing as every other team . That's why they probably don't think that how they're doing it is wrong ... and basically , they're correct . Where they're a 'mess' is in how they can't even seem to figure out how to do it well enough to get to the middle of the pack .
That's why they have to lure someone away from the Packers or the Pats who actually knows wtf they're doing . Bill Polian is out there doing commentary . Is anyone from the consulting firm even looking at him ?
I think of it like when you go to a business event and you start talking business w/the competition. And everyone looks at that one company and it's like, wtsf are they doing and why? Who is running it, why did they hire him, and why did they hire who they hired? B/c that place is a F'n mess. Everyone knows, and eventually the company itself hears about it.
Shee-ot even the Browns & Bears are doing basically the same thing as every other team . That's why they probably don't think that how they're doing it is wrong ... and basically , they're correct . Where they're a 'mess' is in how they can't even seem to figure out how to do it well enough to get to the middle of the pack .
That's why they have to lure someone away from the Packers or the Pats who actually knows wtf they're doing . Bill Polian is out there doing commentary . Is anyone from the consulting firm even looking at him ?
Are they though? Browns seem to have a theory that they want to get multiple first round picks, pass on a QB w/the early one and take an stud athlete, and then take a lower tier qb w/the later 1st round. What other teams are doing that? Meanwhile the Bears think that a glut of 4th and 5th round picks are how you build your team, and you don't actually need talented players on O outside of the OL.
This thread goes everywhere. Getting Fox as HC seemed a good thing to turn team around. Once talent was here hire a new HC is what I thought. Hiring Fox also brought really good OC and DC with him. Pace, well we will see in a few years. Really never got to see the team at full strength this year. C, well he is what he his. I say half his INT's are do to trying to win / score when Bears are behind. The rest are just some really bonehead throws. When he came here I was really happy, now time to move on. BUT you have to find someone first. Next year if he's the best QB on the team you have to play him. Pace has to fix that.