Rebuilding? On their roster(of note) in 2012: QB Manning WR D Thomas E Decker TE Tamme RB McGahee, Ball, Hillman, Moreno OT: Clady
DE: Wolfe Dumerville, Ayres LB: Von Miller, DJ Williams, Danny T, CB: Champ Baily, Tracy Porter, Chris Harris S: Quinton Carter
How much rebuilding did they have to do?
Players of note on the Bears: RB Howard WR AJ OT Leno OG Massie/Long OC Whitehair
DE: Hicks NT: Goldman LB: Floyd, Danny T, Freeman, McPhee
See the difference?
D Thomas = Kevin White ( Until 2012 season he was a huge question mark similar to White ) E Decker - Never had a 1,000 yard season before Manning Howard is looking to be better than any of the RBs Broncos had at the time Wolfe - Rookie that year Miller - He was a great player Danny T - Late round pick trying to prove himself
Bears:
RB: Howard WR: AJ, White ( Since you put Thomas on there ), Meredith ( 888 yards this year ) TE: Miller OT: Leno, Massie OG: Sitton and Long C: Whitehair
One of the best interior O-lines in the league.
LBs: Freeman, Danny T, Kwiatkoski OLBs: Floyd, Mcphee, and Young DE: Hicks NT: Goldman CB: Porter and Fuller
I know its the cool thing to say that we have no talent but the truth is we are the same as the Broncos in 2012. The only difference is our offense is better than our defense while their defense was better than their offense.
Rebuilding? On their roster(of note) in 2012: QB Manning WR D Thomas E Decker TE Tamme RB McGahee, Ball, Hillman, Moreno OT: Clady
DE: Wolfe Dumerville, Ayres LB: Von Miller, DJ Williams, Danny T, CB: Champ Baily, Tracy Porter, Chris Harris S: Quinton Carter
How much rebuilding did they have to do?
Players of note on the Bears: RB Howard WR AJ OT Leno OG Massie/Long OC Whitehair
DE: Hicks NT: Goldman LB: Floyd, Danny T, Freeman, McPhee
See the difference?
D Thomas = Kevin White ( Until 2012 season he was a huge question mark similar to White ) E Decker - Never had a 1,000 yard season before Manning Howard is looking to be better than any of the RBs Broncos had at the time Wolfe - Rookie that year Miller - He was a great player Danny T - Late round pick trying to prove himself
Bears:
RB: Howard WR: AJ, White ( Since you put Thomas on there ), Meredith ( 888 yards this year ) TE: Miller OT: Leno, Massie OG: Sitton and Long C: Whitehair
One of the best interior O-lines in the league.
LBs: Freeman, Danny T, Kwiatkoski OLBs: Floyd, Mcphee, and Young DE: Hicks NT: Goldman CB: Porter and Fuller
I know its the cool thing to say that we have no talent but the truth is we are the same as the Broncos in 2012. The only difference is our offense is better than our defense while their defense was better than their offense.
yeah, I don't get this no talent thing either. It's just an easy out. Do we have SB talent? no.
But we have decent talent. Definitely more than three wins worth. We have a completely horrible secondary, but that is the only unit worthy of a three win team. The rest of the units all have enough talent to be respectable.
We seem to be getting better talent since Pace arrived. When healthy, we have some good young talent. Not great, but young guys with decent ceilings. But we are not "there" yet. We need this 3rd Pace draft and free agency - and - we need to have the coaches get these young people developed properly. And when the youngster QB lands here that will be true in spades.
I do believe Bears fans tend to overvalue the talent level that we have at this snapshot in time. Some of these guys are works in progress who hopefully will have high ceilings.
For those who think the team is "there" now, I'd ask them to tell me how many first team, All-Pro players we have. We had zero on that team. The upside is that we had 3 rookies on the rookie team. So we are DEFINITELY headed in the right direction. There is still work for Pace to do with the roster though. Serious work. Beginning with the QB position.
We seem to be getting better talent since Pace arrived. When healthy, we have some good young talent. Not great, but young guys with decent ceilings. But we are not "there" yet. We need this 3rd Pace draft and free agency - and - we need to have the coaches get these young people developed properly. And when the youngster QB lands here that will be true in spades.
I do believe Bears fans tend to overvalue the talent level that we have at this snapshot in time. Some of these guys are works in progress who hopefully will have high ceilings.
For those who think the team is "there" now, I'd ask them to tell me how many first team, All-Pro players we have. We had zero on that team. The upside is that we had 3 rookies on the rookie team. So we are DEFINITELY headed in the right direction. There is still work for Pace to do with the roster though. Serious work. Beginning with the QB position.
I don't think anyone would argue with you. The things you have to ask yourself is... Is Pace increasing the talent level? You said you thought he was. I agree.
You say that we are not there yet. I agree again. You also mention people that think we are there yet. I try to read every post and I honestly can't think of anyone on this board that thinks that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of any.
So we are getting better with Pace and are not there yet. Again, an assessment I think most would agree with.
So then the next question is, we both agree that we got better than we were last year. Our wins are down from last year with better talent, but we had injuries. The followup question then is... with the injuries, did we have a team that should have won more than three games. And it keeps coming back to that. Here we have some divergence. Some say no, some say yes.
If the answer is no, then we are good. No correction to be taken. Our level of talent with injuries should not have gotten us more wins than we got. So we just get healthy and keep moving forward with Pace getting better players and we keep improving.
If the answer is yes, then you have to ask why. Were the players not playing hard? Were the plays bad? Was the coaching less than it should have been? Then based on those answers you decide if something needs correction and you are willing to do it. Simple root cause and correction.
We seem to be getting better talent since Pace arrived. When healthy, we have some good young talent. Not great, but young guys with decent ceilings. But we are not "there" yet. We need this 3rd Pace draft and free agency - and - we need to have the coaches get these young people developed properly. And when the youngster QB lands here that will be true in spades.
I do believe Bears fans tend to overvalue the talent level that we have at this snapshot in time. Some of these guys are works in progress who hopefully will have high ceilings.
For those who think the team is "there" now, I'd ask them to tell me how many first team, All-Pro players we have. We had zero on that team. The upside is that we had 3 rookies on the rookie team. So we are DEFINITELY headed in the right direction. There is still work for Pace to do with the roster though. Serious work. Beginning with the QB position.
I don't think anyone would argue with you. The things you have to ask yourself is... Is Pace increasing the talent level? You said you thought he was. I agree.
You say that we are not there yet. I agree again. You also mention people that think we are there yet. I try to read every post and I honestly can't think of anyone on this board that thinks that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of any.
So we are getting better with Pace and are not there yet. Again, an assessment I think most would agree with.
So then the next question is, we both agree that we got better than we were last year. Our wins are down from last year with better talent, but we had injuries. The followup question then is... with the injuries, did we have a team that should have won more than three games. And it keeps coming back to that. Here we have some divergence. Some say no, some say yes.
If the answer is no, then we are good. No correction to be taken. Our level of talent with injuries should not have gotten us more wins than we got. So we just get healthy and keep moving forward with Pace getting better players and we keep improving.
If the answer is yes, then you have to ask why. Were the players not playing hard? Were the plays bad? Was the coaching less than it should have been? Then based on those answers you decide if something needs correction and you are willing to do it. Simple root cause and correction.
I personally have written this past season off. Could we have theoretically won more than 3 games? Sure. But to me it's like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Who cares if we maybe could have won 4, or 5 instead of 3? To me we had a horrific season due to multiple reasons. And those reasons have been beat to death in a zillion posts.
Looking forward, I see a team of youngsters and new guys who should be better next season, for a number of reasons (additional year of development, another year in the new schemes, team chemistry, etc etc etc) - especially if they stay healthy and we have our starters playing rather than a team of backups trying to look like starters.
If Fox & these coaches, can coach, then it should be a significantly improved team (emphasis on significant). If not, then we have a coaching problem and we need to replace guys.
We seem to be getting better talent since Pace arrived. When healthy, we have some good young talent. Not great, but young guys with decent ceilings. But we are not "there" yet. We need this 3rd Pace draft and free agency - and - we need to have the coaches get these young people developed properly. And when the youngster QB lands here that will be true in spades.
I do believe Bears fans tend to overvalue the talent level that we have at this snapshot in time. Some of these guys are works in progress who hopefully will have high ceilings.
For those who think the team is "there" now, I'd ask them to tell me how many first team, All-Pro players we have. We had zero on that team. The upside is that we had 3 rookies on the rookie team. So we are DEFINITELY headed in the right direction. There is still work for Pace to do with the roster though. Serious work. Beginning with the QB position.
I don't think anyone would argue with you. The things you have to ask yourself is... Is Pace increasing the talent level? You said you thought he was. I agree.
You say that we are not there yet. I agree again. You also mention people that think we are there yet. I try to read every post and I honestly can't think of anyone on this board that thinks that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of any.
So we are getting better with Pace and are not there yet. Again, an assessment I think most would agree with.
So then the next question is, we both agree that we got better than we were last year. Our wins are down from last year with better talent, but we had injuries. The followup question then is... with the injuries, did we have a team that should have won more than three games. And it keeps coming back to that. Here we have some divergence. Some say no, some say yes.
If the answer is no, then we are good. No correction to be taken. Our level of talent with injuries should not have gotten us more wins than we got. So we just get healthy and keep moving forward with Pace getting better players and we keep improving.
If the answer is yes, then you have to ask why. Were the players not playing hard? Were the plays bad? Was the coaching less than it should have been? Then based on those answers you decide if something needs correction and you are willing to do it. Simple root cause and correction.
Did we get better or worse at the most important position in football? Did we or did we not have a guy who was watching football on his couch at the start of the football season, start a lot of games for us?
Rebuilding? On their roster(of note) in 2012: QB Manning WR D Thomas E Decker TE Tamme RB McGahee, Ball, Hillman, Moreno OT: Clady
DE: Wolfe Dumerville, Ayres LB: Von Miller, DJ Williams, Danny T, CB: Champ Baily, Tracy Porter, Chris Harris S: Quinton Carter
How much rebuilding did they have to do?
Players of note on the Bears: RB Howard WR AJ OT Leno OG Massie/Long OC Whitehair
DE: Hicks NT: Goldman LB: Floyd, Danny T, Freeman, McPhee
See the difference?
D Thomas = Kevin White ( Until 2012 season he was a huge question mark similar to White ) E Decker - Never had a 1,000 yard season before Manning Howard is looking to be better than any of the RBs Broncos had at the time Wolfe - Rookie that year Miller - He was a great player Danny T - Late round pick trying to prove himself
Bears:
RB: Howard WR: AJ, White ( Since you put Thomas on there ), Meredith ( 888 yards this year ) TE: Miller OT: Leno, Massie OG: Sitton and Long C: Whitehair
One of the best interior O-lines in the league.
LBs: Freeman, Danny T, Kwiatkoski OLBs: Floyd, Mcphee, and Young DE: Hicks NT: Goldman CB: Porter and Fuller
I know its the cool thing to say that we have no talent but the truth is we are the same as the Broncos in 2012. The only difference is our offense is better than our defense while their defense was better than their offense.
You're wrong in so many places. First off their defense and offense were about the same. Offense was ranked second in points, and 4th in yards. Their defense was ranked 4th in points allowed, and 2nd in yards allowed.
Thomas was the number 3 his rookie year behind Eddie Royal and Brandon Lloyd. His second year he was the #2 and had Tim Tebow throwing him the ball and was the Broncos second leading receiver. He wasn't a question mark in 2012.
Eric Decker, also in his second year prior to Manning was the Broncos leading receiver...again with TIM TEBOW throwing the ball...NOBODY ON THAT TEAM HAD 1000 YARDS RECEIVING. Still wasn't a question mark though.
We are no where close to the 2012 Broncos and to suggest otherwise is a joke.
I don't think anyone would argue with you. The things you have to ask yourself is... Is Pace increasing the talent level? You said you thought he was. I agree.
You say that we are not there yet. I agree again. You also mention people that think we are there yet. I try to read every post and I honestly can't think of anyone on this board that thinks that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of any.
So we are getting better with Pace and are not there yet. Again, an assessment I think most would agree with.
So then the next question is, we both agree that we got better than we were last year. Our wins are down from last year with better talent, but we had injuries. The followup question then is... with the injuries, did we have a team that should have won more than three games. And it keeps coming back to that. Here we have some divergence. Some say no, some say yes.
If the answer is no, then we are good. No correction to be taken. Our level of talent with injuries should not have gotten us more wins than we got. So we just get healthy and keep moving forward with Pace getting better players and we keep improving.
If the answer is yes, then you have to ask why. Were the players not playing hard? Were the plays bad? Was the coaching less than it should have been? Then based on those answers you decide if something needs correction and you are willing to do it. Simple root cause and correction.
I personally have written this past season off. Could we have theoretically won more than 3 games? Sure. But to me it's like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Who cares if we maybe could have won 4, or 5 instead of 3? To me we had a horrific season due to multiple reasons. And those reasons have been beat to death in a zillion posts.
Looking forward, I see a team of youngsters and new guys who should be better next season, for a number of reasons (additional year of development, another year in the new schemes, team chemistry, etc etc etc) - especially if they stay healthy and we have our starters playing rather than a team of backups trying to look like starters.
If Fox & these coaches, can coach, then it should be a significantly improved team (emphasis on significant). If not, then we have a coaching problem and we need to replace guys.
It matters to me when I try decide if we are under the right coaching leadership or not. If that is not a metric or concern, then I guess it doesn't matter. If we have a team in the future that can win 11 games and we only win 5 and you don't care, well. all I can say is that you are made out of a different cloth than me. It bothers me.
I don't think anyone would argue with you. The things you have to ask yourself is... Is Pace increasing the talent level? You said you thought he was. I agree.
You say that we are not there yet. I agree again. You also mention people that think we are there yet. I try to read every post and I honestly can't think of anyone on this board that thinks that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't think of any.
So we are getting better with Pace and are not there yet. Again, an assessment I think most would agree with.
So then the next question is, we both agree that we got better than we were last year. Our wins are down from last year with better talent, but we had injuries. The followup question then is... with the injuries, did we have a team that should have won more than three games. And it keeps coming back to that. Here we have some divergence. Some say no, some say yes.
If the answer is no, then we are good. No correction to be taken. Our level of talent with injuries should not have gotten us more wins than we got. So we just get healthy and keep moving forward with Pace getting better players and we keep improving.
If the answer is yes, then you have to ask why. Were the players not playing hard? Were the plays bad? Was the coaching less than it should have been? Then based on those answers you decide if something needs correction and you are willing to do it. Simple root cause and correction.
Did we get better or worse at the most important position in football? Did we or did we not have a guy who was watching football on his couch at the start of the football season, start a lot of games for us?
the first answer is worse. The second answer is yes, but it does not matter. Kurt Warner was bagging groceries. I don't care what they used to be doing. I care what they are doing. ANd you know better than most that football is a team sport. Sure the QB was no better, but there are a bunch of other guys out there. 3 wins? again.... that is subjective, but I guess I disagree.
Did we get better or worse at the most important position in football? Did we or did we not have a guy who was watching football on his couch at the start of the football season, start a lot of games for us?
the first answer is worse. The second answer is yes, but it does not matter. Kurt Warner was bagging groceries. I don't care what they used to be doing. I care what they are doing. ANd you know better than most that football is a team sport. Sure the QB was no better, but there are a bunch of other guys out there. 3 wins? again.... that is subjective, but I guess I disagree.
Well I think we can agree Barkley is no Warner. Not only was the QB no better...the QB was much, MUCH worse. And yes you're right...there were other guys out there...like a tight end I've never heard of before, 4th and 5th string receivers, DB's claimed from other teams...
Could we have won more than 3 games? Maybe. Should we really have? I don't think so. So yeah, on this we disagree my brotha.