If we draft a QB in the 2nd...

jj30
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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 27, 2016 11:16:10 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by jj30 on Dec 27, 2016 11:16:10 GMT -6

Dec 27, 2016 8:54:52 GMT -6 JABF said:

Dec 27, 2016 8:32:35 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

A LOT was made about his work in the offseason to prepare himself for the pro's. So all of that MIGHT have been true, or maybe it was overblown. But that's what you cannot put into these profiles, willingness to improve and work ethic. Dak had those 2 in spades, as well as nfl qb traits.

What I see happening during many draft years is that the so-called "experts" don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. They get it wrong. Especially with quarterbacks. I understand why. It is very difficult to project how a college QB from a college spread offense is going to perform in the NFL. It is a different world for QB's at the NFL level. I get that. But I no longer buy into the crap about "oh, it's a bad year for QB's" that we hear every year now. Same old crap we hear, yet SOME teams are getting really good QB's.

I have loved watching the youngsters perform this year. I've liked it a lot. We are watching the first steps of players who will ultimately be the future Tom Brady's and Aaron Rodgers. Even though they struggle some in their first seasons, they still put on a show. I loved watching Dak perform last night. People can write it off that he's on a good team with a good OL and has a great RB. But that kid has talent in his own right. Heck, we have enough OL right now to support a decent QB. If the QB doesn't hold the ball for an eternity. And we don't have an EE like Dallas, but Jordan Howard is certainly decent. Decent enough.

Anyway, I'm rambling. My point is that there will be a few decent QBs drafted in this draft. I don't know who they are, but they will be there. We just need for the scouting department and Ryan Pace to ID the guy we need and get it right this time. I know that's asking a lot, but that's what those guys get paid for - to bring in player talent.

That would explain why the Bears GMs seem to get most of there first round pick wrong they must be reading what the experts have to say.

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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 0:35:36 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 0:35:36 GMT -6

Before I draft a QB in round two I'd take that pick and negotiate with it and whatever else it might take within reason to trade for Garoppolo and call it good. Maybe I can get him and maybe I can't but I'd sure as hell put in the effort until the Pats just flat said no.

Then I might also trade back a bit with that #3 overall pick and pick back up the second I traded away and maybe a bit more depending on where it takes me. If I could add three more top shelf guy to start soon from this draft as well plus trade for that young vet QB I'd call that a good month.

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matsellah
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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 1:33:09 GMT -6

Post by matsellah on Dec 28, 2016 1:33:09 GMT -6

How long have football people been prophesying the bleak NFL QB prospects coming out of college? Looks like those Nostradamuses were on the ball and this draft class is proof. There just isn't anyone there worthy of such a high value pick and here are the Bears, possibly picking in the Top 3, and in more dire need of a top-flight quarterback than ever before. *sigh*

Personally, of all the kids in this class, the only one I have even a slight interest in is Mitch Trubisky.

Coaches say you can coach any aspect of being a quarterback except arm strength. Prescott proof?

Options?

1. Get the mafia to "have a chat" with Belichick and Kraft about Garoppolo and pick compensation. Although it wouldn't surprise me if Belichick has something on the mob. Plus, those "one-hit wonders" out of New England never seem to pan out.

2. Resign whatshisname. Lots of performance clauses, lots of buyout options.

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riczaj01 Administrator Posts: 11,460 Likes: 10,242	If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 5:50:30 GMT -6 JABF likes this Post by riczaj01 on Dec 28, 2016 5:50:30 GMT -6 Those same people were wrong on Marriota and Carr and Wentz and Presscott and Wentz in recent years. And I guarantee you'll find at least 2 or 3 good QB's in this draft. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

JABF
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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 9:36:51 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by JABF on Dec 28, 2016 9:36:51 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2016 5:50:30 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Those same people were wrong on Marriota and Carr and Wentz and Presscott and Wentz in recent years. And I guarantee you'll find at least 2 or 3 good QB's in this draft.

+1,000
Part of the challenge is having the Bears scouts and Pace accurately recognize who has the ability to be a solid QB for us. And the other part of the challenge is for the Bears to be able to DEVELOP a quarterback so that he can reach that full potential. For many years the Bears have failed with both of these challenges.

It's on Pace to draft the right guy.
It's on Pace to have the coaches in place to develop the guy once he lands here.

We will soon see if Pace is any good as our GM. This team is his team. These are his players. These are his coaches. This is his team. Let's see if Ryan Pace can step up here.

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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 9:39:27 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 9:39:27 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2016 9:36:51 GMT -6 JABF said:

Dec 28, 2016 5:50:30 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Those same people were wrong on Marriota and Carr and Wentz and Presscott and Wentz in recent years. And I guarantee you'll find at least 2 or 3 good QB's in this draft.

+1,000
Part of the challenge is having the Bears scouts and Pace accurately recognize who has the ability to be a solid QB for us. And the other part of the challenge is for the Bears to be able to DEVELOP a quarterback so that he can reach that full potential. For many years the Bears have failed with both of these challenges.

It's on Pace to draft the right guy.
It's on Pace to have the coaches in place to develop the guy once he lands here.

We will soon see if Pace is any good as our GM. This team is his team. These are his players. These are his coaches. This is his team. Let's see if Ryan Pace can step up here.

I agree except with one caveat. Typically, the GM gives all authority for coaching assistants to the HC. And we all know how old time coaches feel about the plan to develop young QBs. The plan is throw them in there.

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brasilbear
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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 9:54:24 GMT -6 riczaj01, JABF, and 1 more like this

Post by brasilbear on Dec 28, 2016 9:54:24 GMT -6

Read an interesting comment on a blog (not a really good blog so I'm not going to post it here) about the value of a 2nd round pick. The commentator made the point that beside trying to figure out if any QBs have a first round grade, a team needs to know if any QBs have a high second round grade.

The problem than becomes (and I'm not going to state this clearly so bear with me) do they pick a player at 1-3 (1st round 3rd pick) who is a reach over a player at 2-3 who also is a reach. In order words if J.Smith (made up QB prospect) is your 15th ranked player do you take him in the first or do you take pass on Smith and take J.Doe who is your 45th ranked prospect high in the second.

If you can trade down to get Smith, than you miss out on the 'once in a generation HOF multiple-year AP/PB' OLB/5-technique DL-man. If you pass on Smith and take Doe than you are missing (potentially) on a player you had a first round grade on (CB/S maybe) that slid out of the first.

Glad I'm not Pace. But its the puzzle he built for himself by not adding a QB prospect in any of his drafts to date.

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JABF
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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 10:16:04 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by JABF on Dec 28, 2016 10:16:04 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2016 9:54:24 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Read an interesting comment on a blog (not a really good blog so I'm not going to post it here) about the value of a 2nd round pick. The commentator made the point that beside trying to figure out if any QBs have a first round grade, a team needs to know if any QBs have a high second round grade.

The problem than becomes (and I'm not going to state this clearly so bear with me) do they pick a player at 1-3 (1st round 3rd pick) who is a reach over a player at 2-3 who also is a reach. In order words if J.Smith (made up QB prospect) is your 15th ranked player do you take him in the first or do you take pass on Smith and take J.Doe who is your 45th ranked prospect high in the second.

If you can trade down to get Smith, than you miss out on the 'once in a generation HOF multiple-year AP/PB' OLB/5-technique DL-man. If you pass on Smith and take Doe than you are missing (potentially) on a player you had a first round grade on (CB/S maybe) that slid out of the first.

Glad I'm not Pace. But its the puzzle he built for himself by not adding a QB prospect in any of his drafts to date.

+1
I think that is "it" in a nutshell. Part of this is how the Bears have these guys evaluated to begin with. Pace and the scouting department may have a QB as a true top-5 or so talent, while the sports writers, ESPN, CBS Sports etc may have that same guy ranked as a 2nd round talent or lower. Or it could be the other way around and the Bears may have the guy ranked lower.

I'd give anything to see the Bears scouting/draft board. I'll bet it is VERY different from what we are reading from the "expert" sources.

In fact, a QB who will be available at #35 (where we pick in the 2nd round) may be a guy the Bears have ranked as the best QB in this draft for the Bears. I mean, who knows for sure, because we are fans just trying to look in from the outside. There may be a Dak Prescott type guy in this draft who truly is the best QB for us - and not some darling of the media heads.

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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 28, 2016 10:16:07 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 10:16:07 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2016 9:54:24 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Read an interesting comment on a blog (not a really good blog so I'm not going to post it here) about the value of a 2nd round pick. The commentator made the point that beside trying to figure out if any QBs have a first round grade, a team needs to know if any QBs have a high second round grade.

The problem than becomes (and I'm not going to state this clearly so bear with me) do they pick a player at 1-3 (1st round 3rd pick) who is a reach over a player at 2-3 who also is a reach. In order words if J.Smith (made up QB prospect) is your 15th ranked player do you take him in the first or do you take pass on Smith and take J.Doe who is your 45th ranked prospect high in the second.

If you can trade down to get Smith, than you miss out on the 'once in a generation HOF multiple-year AP/PB' OLB/5-technique DL-man. If you pass on Smith and take Doe than you are missing (potentially) on a player you had a first round grade on (CB/S maybe) that slid out of the first.

Glad I'm not Pace. But its the puzzle he built for himself by not adding a QB prospect in any of his drafts to date.

It is actually the puzzle that Fox built when he backed off of trying to move from Cutler. When Fox told Pace that he was happy with Cutler, there was no reason for Pace to go for a high pick QB. But he still should have picked a mid rounder. Maybe someone who's last name ended with Prescott

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If we draft a QB in the 2nd... Dec 29, 2016 4:07:36 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 4:07:36 GMT -6

Dec 28, 2016 1:33:09 GMT -6 matsellah said:

How long have football people been prophesying the bleak NFL QB prospects coming out of college? Looks like those Nostradamuses were on the ball and this draft class is proof. There just isn't anyone there worthy of such a high value pick and here are the Bears, possibly picking in the Top 3, and in more dire need of a top-flight quarterback than ever before. *sigh*

Personally, of all the kids in this class, the only one I have even a slight interest in is Mitch Trubisky.

Coaches say you can coach any aspect of being a quarterback except arm strength. Prescott proof?

Options?

1. Get the mafia to "have a chat" with Belichick and Kraft about Garoppolo and pick compensation. Although it wouldn't surprise me if Belichick has something on the mob. Plus, those "one-hit wonders" out of New England never seem to pan out.

2. Resign whatshisname. Lots of performance clauses, lots of buyout options.

For the most part rookie QB prospects have been bleak for nearly a decade. Fewer major programs than ever run pro style offenses and the pros will not use college style offenses so not only is it hard to evaluate prospects for their pro potential developing them into competent starters is taking far longer and has greater risk that they will fail completely. It seems too many have to unlearn what served them well in college before they can learn to play in the NFL.

I agree with you about Trubisky and even he comes at a huge price with huge risk.

Prescott proof? I dunno. I can't look any farther than Hoyer and Barkely. Both are perfect examples of QBs who will stumble and fall playing here. If you don't have a great arm you'd better be very quick and elusive and have great feet. They have none of that. So going into 2017 with only two proven #2 or #3 level QBs is like raising the surrender flag in June. Seems to me we've done that a lot.

Garoppolo comes with a heavy price tag and his own risk but for those who've had it with Cutler and want a younger starter the pickin's are slim so if that's what you want you at least have to try. I've seen enough game tape on him to say he far above a Matt Cassel in ability so I have less worry about him "panning out" than those who simply use that reason because they haven't watched him.

Is "whathisname" AJ and if not then who?

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Last Edit: Dec 29, 2016 4:08:56 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Post by jj30 on Dec 27, 2016 11:16:10 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 0:35:36 GMT -6

Post by matsellah on Dec 28, 2016 1:33:09 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Dec 28, 2016 5:50:30 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Dec 28, 2016 9:36:51 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 9:39:27 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Dec 28, 2016 9:54:24 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Dec 28, 2016 10:16:04 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2016 10:16:07 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 4:07:36 GMT -6