H&J guys say they're about done with Davis (he loafed several plays Sunday and didn't help out Shelton when he needed it).
MP, I watched and rewatched Davis' reps. I saw one play where he should have helped Shelton. Other than that, someone is gonna have to show me where he loafed. I just can't see it. Now, there were plays where the play was so far away from him he was not a factor... but that was "it" as far a I can see. Nobody has been more critical of Nate Davis than me. But in this case I just see Shelton and Jenkins having a FAR worse game than Davis had... granted he had only a few series of play.
LOL, if anyone is going to blame Davis for Shelton's failures Sunday. I'd say go back and watch the film.
Here's the deal I think. People have (rightfully so) gotten pissed off with Davis. I get that. But on Sunday, Nate Davis was the least of our problems. Again, I'd tell people to go watch the film.
I haven't re-watched it JABF so IDK. Hoge said Davis easily could have prevented the initial penetration during that 18 yard sack but instead blocked no one. Olin K also showed another play where he felt like Davis didn't assist when he was otherwise unoccupied.
Regardless, they clearly don't like Davis anymore and are platooning him with a guy coming off injury they want to take his job. Davis looks like Poles' worst FA mistake so far. All GMs have them and this one was a MISS.
MP, I watched and rewatched Davis' reps. I saw one play where he should have helped Shelton. Other than that, someone is gonna have to show me where he loafed. I just can't see it. Now, there were plays where the play was so far away from him he was not a factor... but that was "it" as far a I can see. Nobody has been more critical of Nate Davis than me. But in this case I just see Shelton and Jenkins having a FAR worse game than Davis had... granted he had only a few series of play.
LOL, if anyone is going to blame Davis for Shelton's failures Sunday. I'd say go back and watch the film.
Here's the deal I think. People have (rightfully so) gotten pissed off with Davis. I get that. But on Sunday, Nate Davis was the least of our problems. Again, I'd tell people to go watch the film.
I haven't re-watched it JABF so IDK. Hoge said Davis easily could have prevented the initial penetration during that 18 yard sack but instead blocked no one. Olin K also showed another play where he felt like Davis didn't assist when he was otherwise unoccupied.
Regardless, they clearly don't like Davis anymore and are platooning him with a guy coming off injury they want to take his job. Davis looks like Poles' worst FA mistake so far. All GMs have them and this one was a MISS.
I did see the one play he didn't pick up a guy on Shelton's side. No question he whiffed on that. And again, I have been a critic of Davis (not saying he is good, he hasn't been). But when I watched the OL play expecting to see him doing bad, I just did not see that. But clearly there were other players who had bad days on the OL. Jenkins was one. Shelton another. Wright had a rock solid day... looked great in pass pro especially. Bax did alright but he did have his hands full at times.
Valid questions, but his point is the plays are there if people do their jobs, they didn't. Tackle, G, C, G, Tackle and anyone asked to chip were constantly beat, if not flat blown up. OL were tripping over themselves and one OT tripped over a WR running a sweep.
Question is, are any of the IOL capable of doing their jobs. We know Wright and Braxton are at least passable, and Jenkins when healthy is a + player. But C/RG are a giant question that could tank the entire OL b/c of their inability to play pro ball. If the OL is struggling this much, can you afford to have Everett as a receiving TE out there more then, or even equal to Kmet/Lewis? Again imo(I'm not qualified nor able to do anything) you run a lot of 2 TE sets w/Kmet/Lewis and/or 1 of them and Everett to help the OL early on to allow your young qb time to adjust and get comfortable to the game.
And I'm still pissed that Poles has just constantly kicked the OL can down the line while fixing WR's and DB's as if they matter more then the fucking thing that protects the qb. WR talent doesn't mean spit if the QB cannot get the ball out b/c their is constantly a def, or 6 in his face(literally). Could Williams clean up some happy feet and get the ball out sooner, yes. But he's also a rookie and asking him to get the ball out as fast as future HoF'rs and all pro's is a big ask. The OL has to do their job at least badly and not look like a bunch of future Canadian leaguers that shouldn't be on an NFL roster.
*side note* on one of the many chgo shows they had a bunch of former Bears. One was on the Saints for awhile w/Brees. And he said w/those shorter qb's, you need big ass tanks on the interior to help hold the pocket for the QB to find the passing lane and step into it. The current bears IOL are not tanks, they are broken down smart cars; small flacid, inept, unusable. This is no way to protect a young qb, let alone one that isn't an ideal qb height.
The Monday Morning QBs are coming out saying Poles should have not drafted Rome and instead went OL or OL after a trade-down. Way too soon to tell and I get why they went WR. RO was clear bpa on the board at #9 and we have sucked at WR for a long, long time too.
I do think it's fair to say that Poles could have been more aggressive in FA in securing a higher quality starting C than Shelton. Think they had Bates mentally penciled in there but Nate Davis continuing to be unreliable at RG has thrown that plan out the window.
It was my point when they drafted him though. Ya I get he's special, but they have DJ Moore, so Rome isn't the future 1. They also went out and got Allen, so he's not the #2. At that point Rome was a luxury pick when they had severe needs elsewhere and a lack of draft capital to address it.
Rome is very likely going to be a special talent, but what does a special WR get you when your LG, C, RG are all so bad the QB doesn't have time to let you finish your route, and in some cases even start it? Could have traded out got multiple picks to deal w/the OG/C spots. Worse is they took Rome, and then in the 3rd took an OT instead of C or G. Maddening; and I like Poles for the most part.
Walker showed why he's starting over any of the backup specialists. He can get pressure, while also working against he run. DL early wasn't getting to the qb, but it was forcing pressure, and as we saw w/CWill pressure is a qb's worst enemy; it broke Levis and he made really bad mistakes. Williams wasn't good but Levis broke, that's what DL pressure does to a qb. Bears DL looked good. Entire starting DL did fine by the end of the game 2ndry is the teams biggest strength and it shows. Vajayjay all on his own removed an 100% from the ST's grade. Watching JT O breakdown CWill, seems like he overall liked the O playcalling. I'd say the coaches in general had a good day.
Yet Flus praised VJJ after the game. Maddening. Not sure what that dude has on this staff and Poles, but they just refuse to admit this isn't working. OC/OG were a last year, during the offseason, during FA and in the draft, and after. I'm getting tired of every GM/HC pretending the OL isn't important. Throwing money at shitty failed OL'men from other teams to replace your shitty failed OL isn't fixing anything. Mid/Late round projects aren't going to fix it either. Brax didn't have a great game either.
Not only was Caleb nervous, which should be expected, he never settled. Some of that is on him, he all on his own has plenty of bad tape, but the forementioned IOL never gave him a shot to settle down and relax. Unlike Levis though, the one brightpoint for Williams was the pressure rattled him and he had a bad game, but he wasn't broken b/c of it. Levis broke and threw terrible passes b/c of the pressure.
JTO actually in his tape asked if the Bears had a rotation going on w/the OL and mocked it b/c it's such a terrible idea; and it showed all game. Real problem is that it wouldn't have mattered b/c every player they have on the IOL, outside of Jenkins(who was also bad) isn't starting quality.
H&J guys say they're about done with Davis (he loafed several plays Sunday and didn't help out Shelton when he needed it). They want Bates to be starting RG but he's not fully healthy yet and they wanted to work him in slowly.
Shelton was really bad--his worst game as a pro. He wouldn't have looked so bad if both guards hadn't also been bad (Jenkins sucked in pass pro too) but yeah its a major problem. He gets one more start and unless he shows substantial improvement, they are gonna have to give the job to either Bates or Kramer.
The whole OL was pretty bad on Sunday, particularly the 3 iOL spots, just like it was for the Jets last night. I give Tenn credit as their best chance to win was to wreck the game with those two stud DTs they have and it would have worked except for their TOs and ST screwups.
Not giving CW a pass--he def missed some throws he should have made--but man he had pressure right in his face way too often and that can't happen long-term. KA dropped an easy TS pass that was well placed and Williams overthrew what would have been a 40 yard TD earlier with KA pretty open down the sideline. Saw it from stands. It's a shot CW rarely misses but he was clearly amped up and overcooked it. Don't think that will be a problem long-term so I'm not worried at this point. If he corrects just one physical mistake, he has 150 yards and 2 TDs on a day where the Bears OL was getting ass-kicked at the LOS.
Davis is clearly out here just collecting paychecks, didn't try the last 2 offseasons and hasn't played well last season or on Sunday. Lets not give Wright or Braxton a pass either, neither played well. Think it was JTO pointed out Jones got flat pushed back w/out even a real bull rush, dude just extended his arms and drove him backwards to collapse the pocket. Jenkins only redeeming value on Sunday was looking back to see the pass, then follow it for blocking purposes, then was in place to recover the Rome fumble. Not one person on that OL should have a grade higher then a C-; the enitre IOL should be an F.
2 stud DT's, the ol69's DUT theory in effect baby! I'm still a fan btw, even if i didn't like the dude professing it. 2 wreckingballs up front to crush the pocket from the inside is how i would do it all day.
Nah CW had happy feet and was to amped and it showed. Missed some throws, threw some late, was pretty inaccurate. But again, Brady, Brees, Manning, Rogers, Big Ben. I've seen tons of QB's that couldn't have a good game w/that kind of pressure in their face; I wouldn't expect any rookie in their first game, no matter the quality of the prospect to have one either.
Regarding center, I think Poles felt Bates/Shelton could be a bridge to 2025 where they'd focus on the position in a big way. It was just buying time with an average C for a season. But it looks now like Shelton isn't even average.
It is water over the dam now. This is our team now so I'm trying to let it go. But I'm going to stroke out if we don't fix the position right in 2025. We should be able to get a really good C with one of those 2nd round picks. Or better yet, if a solid young(er) veteran can be brought in then open up the checkbook and make that happen. That would be money well spent... and no more of these deadbeat vets. Learn from past mistakes. You get what you pay for sometimes.
The Monday Morning QBs are coming out saying Poles should have not drafted Rome and instead went OL or OL after a trade-down. Way too soon to tell and I get why they went WR. RO was clear bpa on the board at #9 and we have sucked at WR for a long, long time too.
I do think it's fair to say that Poles could have been more aggressive in FA in securing a higher quality starting C than Shelton. Think they had Bates mentally penciled in there but Nate Davis continuing to be unreliable at RG has thrown that plan out the window.
It was my point when they drafted him though. Ya I get he's special, but they have DJ Moore, so Rome isn't the future 1. They also went out and got Allen, so he's not the #2. At that point Rome was a luxury pick when they had severe needs elsewhere and a lack of draft capital to address it.
Rome is very likely going to be a special talent, but what does a special WR get you when your LG, C, RG are all so bad the QB doesn't have time to let you finish your route, and in some cases even start it? Could have traded out got multiple picks to deal w/the OG/C spots. Worse is they took Rome, and then in the 3rd took an OT instead of C or G. Maddening; and I like Poles for the most part.
My guess is that KA isn't here for long. 1 year mentorship for Rome? He also has a long injury history and isn't gonna play more than maybe 12 games a year. I think the plan was to let Allen walk after this season for a comp pick, assuming Rome looks like he's ready to be the #2 WR in 2025.
TBH, I would have run to the podium for RO at #9 just like Poles did. He has rare combo of hands, speed, size, and contested catch ability. And you need more than just DJ going forward. We have had teams with only 1 real WR weapon before and it doesn't tend to go well. I don't see that pick as a "luxury" just because he's the #3 guy in his rookie year.
Having said all that, Poles should have spent the $$ in FA to get a solid vet center and I was surprised when he didn't. Bates (whether C or RG) is a solid player but more of a competition piece rather than a clear #1 starting C.
It was my point when they drafted him though. Ya I get he's special, but they have DJ Moore, so Rome isn't the future 1. They also went out and got Allen, so he's not the #2. At that point Rome was a luxury pick when they had severe needs elsewhere and a lack of draft capital to address it.
Rome is very likely going to be a special talent, but what does a special WR get you when your LG, C, RG are all so bad the QB doesn't have time to let you finish your route, and in some cases even start it? Could have traded out got multiple picks to deal w/the OG/C spots. Worse is they took Rome, and then in the 3rd took an OT instead of C or G. Maddening; and I like Poles for the most part.
My guess is that KA isn't here for long. 1 year mentorship for Rome? He also has a long injury history and isn't gonna play more than maybe 12 games a year. I think the plan was to let Allen walk after this season for a comp pick, assuming Rome looks like he's ready to be the #2 WR in 2025.
TBH, I would have run to the podium for RO at #9 just like Poles did. He has rare combo of hands, speed, size, and contested catch ability. And you need more than just DJ going forward. We have had teams with only 1 real WR weapon before and it doesn't tend to go well. I don't see that pick as a "luxury" just because he's the #3 guy in his rookie year.
Having said all that, Poles should have spent the $$ in FA to get a solid vet center and I was surprised when he didn't. Bates (whether C or RG) is a solid player but more of a competition piece rather than a clear #1 starting C.
1 we can only assume what the plans are for Allen, and it might well have to do w/how well Odunze does this year. Neither he or the cannot miss must have MHJr did nothing in their first game; but that isn't unheard of for WR's, which is another reason I dont care to draft them early.
You can have more then just DJ, you don't need a 1, 1a combo at WR, it rarely turns into SB's. #1 Wr, Legit option at TE then put your money elsewhere, specifically OL, DL, DB.
we can definitely agree on that, Poles failed when he again didn't address the interior OL w/real help. Throwing bodies at it w/failed rejects and projects isn't working.
Valid questions, but his point is the plays are there if people do their jobs, they didn't. Tackle, G, C, G, Tackle and anyone asked to chip were constantly beat, if not flat blown up. OL were tripping over themselves and one OT tripped over a WR running a sweep.
Question is, are any of the IOL capable of doing their jobs. We know Wright and Braxton are at least passable, and Jenkins when healthy is a + player. But C/RG are a giant question that could tank the entire OL b/c of their inability to play pro ball. If the OL is struggling this much, can you afford to have Everett as a receiving TE out there more then, or even equal to Kmet/Lewis? Again imo(I'm not qualified nor able to do anything) you run a lot of 2 TE sets w/Kmet/Lewis and/or 1 of them and Everett to help the OL early on to allow your young qb time to adjust and get comfortable to the game.
And I'm still pissed that Poles has just constantly kicked the OL can down the line while fixing WR's and DB's as if they matter more then the fucking thing that protects the qb. WR talent doesn't mean spit if the QB cannot get the ball out b/c their is constantly a def, or 6 in his face(literally). Could Williams clean up some happy feet and get the ball out sooner, yes. But he's also a rookie and asking him to get the ball out as fast as future HoF'rs and all pro's is a big ask. The OL has to do their job at least badly and not look like a bunch of future Canadian leaguers that shouldn't be on an NFL roster.
*side note* on one of the many chgo shows they had a bunch of former Bears. One was on the Saints for awhile w/Brees. And he said w/those shorter qb's, you need big ass tanks on the interior to help hold the pocket for the QB to find the passing lane and step into it. The current bears IOL are not tanks, they are broken down smart cars; small flacid, inept, unusable. This is no way to protect a young qb, let alone one that isn't an ideal qb height.
The Monday Morning QBs are coming out saying Poles should have not drafted Rome and instead went OL or OL after a trade-down. Way too soon to tell and I get why they went WR. RO was clear bpa on the board at #9 and we have sucked at WR for a long, long time too.
I do think it's fair to say that Poles could have been more aggressive in FA in securing a higher quality starting C than Shelton. Think they had Bates mentally penciled in there but Nate Davis continuing to be unreliable at RG has thrown that plan out the window.
I don't agree with that. We need two really good WRs. Allen probably will not be here next year and top WRs are much harder to get than top C's. I'm ok with how Poles did it. Except maybe he should have overpaid a little in FA to get the right center. Even if it was only for a year.
It was my point when they drafted him though. Ya I get he's special, but they have DJ Moore, so Rome isn't the future 1. They also went out and got Allen, so he's not the #2. At that point Rome was a luxury pick when they had severe needs elsewhere and a lack of draft capital to address it.
Rome is very likely going to be a special talent, but what does a special WR get you when your LG, C, RG are all so bad the QB doesn't have time to let you finish your route, and in some cases even start it? Could have traded out got multiple picks to deal w/the OG/C spots. Worse is they took Rome, and then in the 3rd took an OT instead of C or G. Maddening; and I like Poles for the most part.
My guess is that KA isn't here for long. 1 year mentorship for Rome? He also has a long injury history and isn't gonna play more than maybe 12 games a year. I think the plan was to let Allen walk after this season for a comp pick, assuming Rome looks like he's ready to be the #2 WR in 2025.
TBH, I would have run to the podium for RO at #9 just like Poles did. He has rare combo of hands, speed, size, and contested catch ability. And you need more than just DJ going forward. We have had teams with only 1 real WR weapon before and it doesn't tend to go well. I don't see that pick as a "luxury" just because he's the #3 guy in his rookie year.
Having said all that, Poles should have spent the $$ in FA to get a solid vet center and I was surprised when he didn't. Bates (whether C or RG) is a solid player but more of a competition piece rather than a clear #1 starting C.
That is my thinking as well. KA is older and won't be here long, and as you and others have said, 1 weapon is not enough. I also like the 9 pick for Rome. I do wish we were able to snag a decent C somewhere along the line, at least until we can better address the O-Line next draft/FA.
H&J guys say they're about done with Davis (he loafed several plays Sunday and didn't help out Shelton when he needed it). They want Bates to be starting RG but he's not fully healthy yet and they wanted to work him in slowly.
Shelton was really bad--his worst game as a pro. He wouldn't have looked so bad if both guards hadn't also been bad (Jenkins sucked in pass pro too) but yeah its a major problem. He gets one more start and unless he shows substantial improvement, they are gonna have to give the job to either Bates or Kramer.
The whole OL was pretty bad on Sunday, particularly the 3 iOL spots, just like it was for the Jets last night. I give Tenn credit as their best chance to win was to wreck the game with those two stud DTs they have and it would have worked except for their TOs and ST screwups.
Not giving CW a pass--he def missed some throws he should have made--but man he had pressure right in his face way too often and that can't happen long-term. KA dropped an easy TS pass that was well placed and Williams overthrew what would have been a 40 yard TD earlier with KA pretty open down the sideline. Saw it from stands. It's a shot CW rarely misses but he was clearly amped up and overcooked it. Don't think that will be a problem long-term so I'm not worried at this point. If he corrects just one physical mistake, he has 150 yards and 2 TDs on a day where the Bears OL was getting ass-kicked at the LOS.
Davis is clearly out here just collecting paychecks, didn't try the last 2 offseasons and hasn't played well last season or on Sunday. Lets not give Wright or Braxton a pass either, neither played well. Think it was JTO pointed out Jones got flat pushed back w/out even a real bull rush, dude just extended his arms and drove him backwards to collapse the pocket. Jenkins only redeeming value on Sunday was looking back to see the pass, then follow it for blocking purposes, then was in place to recover the Rome fumble. Not one person on that OL should have a grade higher then a C-; the enitre IOL should be an F.
2 stud DT's, the ol69's DUT theory in effect baby! I'm still a fan btw, even if i didn't like the dude professing it. 2 wreckingballs up front to crush the pocket from the inside is how i would do it all day.
Nah CW had happy feet and was to amped and it showed. Missed some throws, threw some late, was pretty inaccurate. But again, Brady, Brees, Manning, Rogers, Big Ben. I've seen tons of QB's that couldn't have a good game w/that kind of pressure in their face; I wouldn't expect any rookie in their first game, no matter the quality of the prospect to have one either.
Jenkins had a bad day. It happens. We know he can play. Davis sucks, simple as that. Got paid and stopped giving a damn. Big whiff in FA there by Poles no question. Shelton was awful on Sunday but he's been a average C on other teams.
My plan would be: 1) Shelton gets another shot on SNF vs Houston and goes to the bench if he isn't substantially better. 2) Get Bates healthy before you "play" him. OL rotations or platoons do not work. 3) If you need a C, put Bates there. 4) If you need a RG (and you do cuz Nate Davis is the Velus of the OL), then put Bates there. 5) If you need both, I'd put Bates at C and Pryor at RG.