Just in my lifetime, I have seen Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and Mahommes. I have already lived three generations and looks like I may have to live through another. This new QB stuff is really hard on you!
+1, LOL. I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo tired of the "experts" pontificating about this kid being this-or-that, as if this is a done deal that he will suck and be the biggest bust ever - or be the greatest sports athlete in the history of mankind here on earth. Everybody who has a podcast, sports show or is an ex-somebody in the NFL is wading in. Their take is worthless crap. JMO.
... it's almost comical. A bunch of clowns.
We need to bring them on as coaches before they gain their senses
+1, LOL. I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo tired of the "experts" pontificating about this kid being this-or-that, as if this is a done deal that he will suck and be the biggest bust ever - or be the greatest sports athlete in the history of mankind here on earth. Everybody who has a podcast, sports show or is an ex-somebody in the NFL is wading in. Their take is worthless crap. JMO.
... it's almost comical. A bunch of clowns.
We need to bring them on as coaches before they gain their senses
LOL, I know. But getting serious here for a moment, I really really like the coaches the Bears have brought in here on the offense in particular. Reading about these guys you see seasoned veteran experience - success. I absolutely LOVE the Shane Waldron hire. He is a perfect fit for us at this time in particular. The Bears, for the first time in my memory anyway, have set the table for a QB to succeed here (albeit I am saying that with the expectation that we will still see some players added to this offense). I get so sick of people whining about the past failures. That is past history. That does not dictate the future. The entire point of these massive changes (and they are massive) with the coaching and players (basically this is almost a 100% new roster since Poles arrived here) - this is all about CHANGING history. Fans want to sit back and bitch and moan and cry about the past... they are like a bunch of losers in life. If these changes are making them that upset they need to get a life and not follow sports. Take up a hobby or something that doesn't depress them or make them this anxious. Me? I'm enjoying all of this. Now, if the team craps the bed again, then hey I will be depressed and pissed too. But why worry now? We haven't even begun training camp yet... much less played a game with this new QB1 or the many new upgrades at several positions on the team. LOL, nothing has happened yet and people are leaping off the ledges. It's kind of embarrassing to watch it all. Anyway, I feel like we are set for a better season this year.
We need to bring them on as coaches before they gain their senses
LOL, I know. But getting serious here for a moment, I really really like the coaches the Bears have brought in here on the offense in particular. Reading about these guys you see seasoned veteran experience - success. I absolutely LOVE the Shane Waldron hire. He is a perfect fit for us at this time in particular. The Bears, for the first time in my memory anyway, have set the table for a QB to succeed here (albeit I am saying that with the expectation that we will still see some players added to this offense). I get so sick of people whining about the past failures. That is past history. That does not dictate the future. The entire point of these massive changes (and they are massive) with the coaching and players (basically this is almost a 100% new roster since Poles arrived here) - this is all about CHANGING history. Fans want to sit back and bitch and moan and cry about the past... they are like a bunch of losers in life. If these changes are making them that upset they need to get a life and not follow sports. Take up a hobby or something that doesn't depress them or make them this anxious. Me? I'm enjoying all of this. Now. If the team craps the bed again, they hey I will be depressed and pissed too. But why worry now? Nothing bad has happened. I feel like we are set for a better season this year.
Just wanting the draft to happen. I want to know who the new QB is going to be (honestly, have low hopes for developing him - just hope he is a guy that can rise above our screwed up process) and how Poles is going to navigate our needs with 4 picks. I'd like another impact player at 9, but he will probably trade down (lol, he can't resist a little Madden) since we have so many needs. Want this stuff over and want to see how we look in preseason (not a great gauge, but it will be our first look)
It would be hard to find a better situation for a no.1 draft pick QB to come in than, than ours. Moore, Allen. Kmet, Everret, Swift, Herbert. Let that sink in.
If we take care of IOL we are looking at the mid-quality team getting a QB at 1.
Post by weneedmorelinemen on Mar 21, 2024 6:42:45 GMT -6
I want to explain where I think "sitting a QB behind a vet for a year" does not actually yield the results of success people think it does.
Please, this is only my opinion. I am not, you know, critiquing anyone's ridiculous idea this works 😀.
For every "Pat Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers sat behind good QBs and now they are now good", there are a hundred guys like Ryan Mallet, Jim Sorgi, Jimmy G, and Matt Cassel. If this were the case, CJ Stroud should have been terrible his rookie year.
What is the case with Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, and Jordan Love, is when they started playing, all of them were in an established system with good players around them with good to great coaches and a good front office that is ahead of the game. They were picking with the luxury of not needing a QB desperately RIGHT NOW.
What is usually the case with a team having the #1 pick is that it is a dumpster fire. It has terrible coaches and few good players. The team management does not have the ability to guess what makes a player good, and rely on luck and their "instincts". And if the ownership decides to get involved like Carolina's does, say good night to your hopes and dreams.
With that, I think maybe Caleb Williams has a puncher's chance of succeeding here with the Bears.
I want to explain where I think "sitting a QB behind a vet for a year" does not actually yield the results of success people think it does.
Please, this is only my opinion. I am not, you know, critiquing anyone's ridiculous idea this works 😀.
For every "Pat Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers sat behind good QBs and now they are now good", there are a hundred guys like Ryan Mallet, Jim Sorgi, Jimmy G, and Matt Cassel. If this were the case, CJ Stroud should have been terrible his rookie year.
What is the case with Aaron Rodgers, Pat Mahomes, and Jordan Love, is when they started playing, all of them were in an established system with good players around them with good to great coaches and a good front office that is ahead of the game. They were picking with the luxury of not needing a QB desperately RIGHT NOW.
What is usually the case with a team having the #1 pick is that it is a dumpster fire. It has terrible coaches and few good players. The team management does not have the ability to guess what makes a player good, and rely on luck and their "instincts". And if the ownership decides to get involved like Carolina's does, say good night to your hopes and dreams.
With that, I think maybe Caleb Williams has a puncher's chance of succeeding here with the Bears.
I get you, and I don’t pretend to know, but GB does it and they seem to have success. Consistently. So either their system works (and there is more to their system than just sitting a new guy), or they just pick better than we do. I think it’s some of both, but I’ll go back to what I said in a different thread. I think more of these guys can be successful than actually are and that teams in general do not know how to develop them well. Except a few of them actually do
tl:dr: Brasil talks about QBS. Safe to skip his meanderings and get on with drinking your coffee.
corrected one thing I can't find.
I agree 100% that teams don't know how to develop QBS. A few things play into that.
(1) Mainly, OFFs are so complicated that the starting QB needs almost 100% of the reps. Toom Moore when he ran the INDY OFF was asked why the backup didn't practice more. He said it was because Manning needed all the reps and if Manning went down they were F----- and they don't practice F-----.
(2) With a few exceptions college QBs coming out are the best players on the best teams with the best WR/RB/TE/OL of all the teams they play. As a result college open is different from NFL open and NFL DEFs are faster and more difficult to adjust against. Some guys after 2-3-4 years of throwing to college open, can't adjust to NFL open or read the DEFs. (Processing.)
(3) For QBs drafted later, few teams have a process or can afford to set up a process to retrain these guys. Its the nature of the beast. NFL coaching staffs average about 3 years I've read. So you can't invest in a 4th round QB. Its sink or swim.
My biggest frustration with the "sit the QB" crowd is they only give lip-service to one very important fact. Most, if not all, of the QBs who sat (and they really only name 3 - Mahomes, Rodgers and Love) were sitting behind AP HOF QBs who were still playing at a very high level. ASmith had his best season and was mentioned in MVP conversations. We are also talking about Mahomes--soon to be GOAT QB and Rodgers--a first ballot HOF. I believe 100% that they would still be the QBs they are if they had started from day 1. Others disagree, I'm not fighting over this. If you disagree, fine. We disagree. Burrow also sat for a year but he's had injury issues so he's on my wait and see list. Allen didn't sit, Hurbert sat for 1 game, Stroud didn't sit, Lawrence didn't sit...
We like to act like sitting your QB means you end up with a HOFer. Not true. Not even close.
tl:dr: Brasil talks about QBS. Safe to skip his meanderings and get on with drinking your coffee.
I agree 100% that teams don't know how to develop QBS. A few things play into that.
(1) Mainly, OFFs are so complicated that the starting QB needs almost 100% of the reps. Toom Moore when he ran the INDY OFF was asked why the backup didn't practice more. He said it was because Manning needed all the reps and if Manning went down they were F----- and they don't practice F-----.
(2) With a few exceptions college coming out are the best players on the best teams with the best WR/RB/TE/OL of all the teams they play. As a result college open is different from NFL open and NFL DEFs are faster and more difficult to adjust against. Some guys after 2-3-4 years of throwing to college open, can't adjust to NFL open or read the DEFs. (Processing.)
(3) For QBs drafted later, few teams have a process or can afford to set up a process to retrain these guys. Its the nature of the beast. NFL coaching staffs average about 3 years I've read. So you can't invest in a 4th round QB. Its sink or swim.
My biggest frustration with the "sit the QB" crowd is they only give lip-service to one very important fact. Most, if not all, of the QBs who sat (and they really only name 3 - Mahomes, Rodgers and Love) were sitting behind AP HOF QBs who were still playing at a very high level. ASmith had his best season and was mentioned in MVP conversations. We are also talking about Mahomes--soon to be GOAT QB and Rodgers--a first ballot HOF. I believe 100% that they would still be the QBs they are if they had started from day 1. Others disgree, I'm not fighting over this. If you disagree, fine. We disagree. Burrow also sat for a year but he's had injury issues so he's on my wait and see list. Allen didn't sit, Hurbert sat for 1 game, Stroud didn't sit, Lawrence didn't sit...
We like to act like sitting your QB means you end up with a HOFer. Not true. Not even close.
Yes, this is very true and I gave that some thought for sure. Still.... there does seem to be advantage in sitting (IMO). Would Rogers or Love been as good if they had NOT sat and just be thrown in? There is really no way to no, but my gut says no (and it can't be the tacos.... I haven't even had them yet)
tl:dr: Brasil talks about QBS. Safe to skip his meanderings and get on with drinking your coffee.
I agree 100% that teams don't know how to develop QBS. A few things play into that.
(1) Mainly, OFFs are so complicated that the starting QB needs almost 100% of the reps. Toom Moore when he ran the INDY OFF was asked why the backup didn't practice more. He said it was because Manning needed all the reps and if Manning went down they were F----- and they don't practice F-----.
(2) With a few exceptions college coming out are the best players on the best teams with the best WR/RB/TE/OL of all the teams they play. As a result college open is different from NFL open and NFL DEFs are faster and more difficult to adjust against. Some guys after 2-3-4 years of throwing to college open, can't adjust to NFL open or read the DEFs. (Processing.)
(3) For QBs drafted later, few teams have a process or can afford to set up a process to retrain these guys. Its the nature of the beast. NFL coaching staffs average about 3 years I've read. So you can't invest in a 4th round QB. Its sink or swim.
My biggest frustration with the "sit the QB" crowd is they only give lip-service to one very important fact. Most, if not all, of the QBs who sat (and they really only name 3 - Mahomes, Rodgers and Love) were sitting behind AP HOF QBs who were still playing at a very high level. ASmith had his best season and was mentioned in MVP conversations. We are also talking about Mahomes--soon to be GOAT QB and Rodgers--a first ballot HOF. I believe 100% that they would still be the QBs they are if they had started from day 1. Others disgree, I'm not fighting over this. If you disagree, fine. We disagree. Burrow also sat for a year but he's had injury issues so he's on my wait and see list. Allen didn't sit, Hurbert sat for 1 game, Stroud didn't sit, Lawrence didn't sit...
We like to act like sitting your QB means you end up with a HOFer. Not true. Not even close.
Yes, this is very true and I gave that some thought for sure. Still.... there does seem to be advantage in sitting (IMO). Would Rogers or Love been as good if they had NOT sat and just be thrown in? There is really no way to no, but my gut says no (and it can't be the tacos.... I haven't even had them yet)
If there were an advantge in sitting, I think we would see more 2nd round or later drafted QBs emerge after 3 seasons. But we don't. To me, thats the biggest issue. We still only point to 3 QBs (you only named 2--Rodgers and Love) where sitting worked. Where are the rest of the QBs that sat?
Cousins? Dak? Do they count? Why don't their names come up?
Post by bearsinhouston on Mar 21, 2024 8:33:03 GMT -6
I pointed to those two specifically because they were from GB and they might be the only franchise I can think of that has CONSISTENTLY developed good QBs. There are always outliers, so I don't know if the other QBs are part of a system or just some of those outliers. But in GB, the consistency tells me they have something working right.