He's way faster on reads and way better in the short-to-intermediate game where Fields really struggles.
There's a lazy narrative out there that CW "holds the ball way too much" just like JF does. People are looking at the the 2023 season when USC had no WRs and an abysmal defense that gave up 35+ points a game. CW did play hero ball too much last season when he had to put up 40 points to have a shot to win. That will need to be coached out of him for sure. But....his release and reads are way faster the Fields when he isn't trying to win the game all by himself.
Yeah, but are fields when he has time and a guy open. You give a reason that CW had a dismal defense as to why he held the ball too long, but dismiss any reason for Fields.
Bih. I get it, I really do. But, tbh, we did have 3y of Fields in NFL, in Bears uniform. Packers game still hurts like a mofo. CW/Maye/anybody didnt play a snap in NFL. I think they will deserve some time for excuses too. God knows we gave a lot to Fields.
He's way faster on reads and way better in the short-to-intermediate game where Fields really struggles.
There's a lazy narrative out there that CW "holds the ball way too much" just like JF does. People are looking at the the 2023 season when USC had no WRs and an abysmal defense that gave up 35+ points a game. CW did play hero ball too much last season when he had to put up 40 points to have a shot to win. That will need to be coached out of him for sure. But....his release and reads are way faster the Fields when he isn't trying to win the game all by himself.
Yeah, but are fields when he has time and a guy open. You give a reason that CW had a dismal defense as to why he held the ball too long, but dismiss any reason for Fields.
Man I really don't want to get into this but yes, Fields is just slow. You can see this on tape again and again. He goes through his progressions too slowly, often makes decisions too slowly (or just doesn't make them), and then has a long wind up to throw which only adds to the problem. It was a noted problem in college and it's still a problem now. This was mitigated some in college because he was playing with a bunch of 1st round draft picks often against teams with lesser talent. It's possible he has gotten a little faster but clearly not enough to compete in the NFL. There isn't an OL in the NFL that is going to consistently be able to give you that time.
When you see CW hold on to the ball it's because he is trying create and maximize the play. You can clearly see on tape he is conscious of where his receivers are and if he passes on shorter routes it's because he thinks there's a bigger play elsewhere. This is where the criticisms that he holds on to the ball a long time and is a "big game hunter" come from. Legitimate criticisms to be sure, but conscious decisions by him and not some limitation of his. And when you add into the fact his defense was routinely giving up 30+ points a game it's understandable why he tended to play that way. It was score or die. I imagine he'll rein that in some if he's on a team with a decent defense. You know like the Bears seem to have now. On top of all that CW has a lighting fast release, can throw it at crazy angles, and has some of the best throwing mechanics of anyone coming out of college.
The pushback on CW continues to baffle me. I can't think of a more picked over 1st round prospect in history. I guess if he acted like Andrew Luck or other dull QB this wouldn't happen. But because he paints his nails and missed a press conference that apparently means he's going to be a bust despite the overwhelming on-field evidence that says otherwise.
Yeah, but are fields when he has time and a guy open. You give a reason that CW had a dismal defense as to why he held the ball too long, but dismiss any reason for Fields.
Bih. I get it, I really do. But, tbh, we did have 3y of Fields in NFL, in Bears uniform. Packers game still hurts like a mofo. CW/Maye/anybody didnt play a snap in NFL. I think they will deserve some time for excuses too. God knows we gave a lot to Fields.
EVERY player deserves a reason why something didn't happen. Because none of them are perfect. But to accept reasons for one and discount for the other seems unfair. Yes, 3 years of Fields and we still do not have a good line in front of him. As far as Williams or Maye coming in to be the new QB, I'm fine with it. I just want to get the franchise guy in here and win. But regardless of all that, there are reasons why Fields has not succeeded. Some of those reasons are him, but some are not. I am not saying Fields is THE GUY. So far he has not been. But I think he can be. I do not know who the right guy is, so I can't say Fields will succeed for sure, nor am I saying we need to stay with him. Williams may be better. Maye may (Maye?) be better. Like JF though, I just want to them to pick a lane and let's start driving down it. Since I don't know, I am not going to the end to defend any choice. Whoever gets the nod, I am going to be behind. Like everyone else, I just hope they get it right.
I do not know who the right guy is, so I can't say Fields will succeed for sure, nor am I saying we need to stay with him. Williams may be better. Maye may (Maye?) be better. Like JF though, I just want to them to pick a lane and let's start driving down it. Since I don't know, I am not going to the end to defend any choice. Whoever gets the nod, I am going to be behind. Like everyone else, I just hope they get it right.
Exactly my take on this too. And if we do move on from Justin Fields I am not going to start vilifying the guy. Meatballs do that. I guess they feel like they have to dump on a guy if we move on from them. It's sad really. These guys work so hard to be good players for us. They obviously want to be a success here. But I do think a lot less of people when they start to denigrate these guys (good guys who gave it their all for us fans) once they are let go. I always try to wish these guys the best when they move on from here. If the Bears move on from Fields I wish him the best. He was a class act here and he represented the Chicago Bears well. He is a mature young man who was a good "face of the franchise" while here.
Yeah, but are fields when he has time and a guy open. You give a reason that CW had a dismal defense as to why he held the ball too long, but dismiss any reason for Fields.
Man I really don't want to get into this but yes, Fields is just slow. You can see this on tape again and again. He goes through his progressions too slowly, often makes decisions too slowly (or just doesn't make them), and then has a long wind up to throw which only adds to the problem. It was a noted problem in college and it's still a problem now. This was mitigated some in college because he was playing with a bunch of 1st round draft picks often against teams with lesser talent. It's possible he has gotten a little faster but clearly not enough to compete in the NFL. There isn't an OL in the NFL that is going to consistently be able to give you that time.
When you see CW hold on to the ball it's because he is trying create and maximize the play. You can clearly see on tape he is conscious of where his receivers are and if he passes on shorter routes it's because he thinks there's a bigger play elsewhere. This is where the criticisms that he holds on to the ball a long time and is a "big game hunter" come from. Legitimate criticisms to be sure, but conscious decisions by him and not some limitation of his. And when you add into the fact his defense was routinely giving up 30+ points a game it's understandable why he tended to play that way. It was score or die. I imagine he'll rein that in some if he's on a team with a decent defense. You know like the Bears seem to have now. On top of all that CW has a lighting fast release, can throw it at crazy angles, and has some of the best throwing mechanics of anyone coming out of college.
The pushback on CW continues to baffle me. I can't think of a more picked over 1st round prospect in history. I guess if he acted like Andrew Luck or other dull QB this wouldn't happen. But because he paints his nails and missed a press conference that apparently means he's going to be a bust despite the overwhelming on-field evidence that says otherwise.
That's all fine and I agree. I keep defending Fields because I know he has not really been dealt a good deck, but that doesn't mean that with the right cards, he can succeed. Or that even if he does, one of the other guys will still be better. I like Fields and think he can do it. I don't want to throw away the chance for the Bears to take the next step and we have that chance now, so getting the best guy is what I am all about. I just think the JF criticism does not take all factors into consideration.
I do have my doubts on CW, but I am a guy in front of a computer. I defer to the guys who actually know something. If they say he is fine and go with him, good deal. One of my biggest wants (hopes?) was that staying with Fields would allow us to upgrade the team like nothing else. Almost all in this year. But is that worth passing up a QB that could lead us to many playoff seasons? No, not even close. But again, I am saying Fields can also be that guy. If I am wrong, none of it matters. I know what Fields has and hasn't done. I don't know if whoever we pick will be any better.
But on this, I keep wanting to stop discussing it, yet I keep going to it like a moth to light. I think everyone knows everyones position, including mine, so I don't know why I keep stating it, lol.
He's way faster on reads and way better in the short-to-intermediate game where Fields really struggles.
There's a lazy narrative out there that CW "holds the ball way too much" just like JF does. People are looking at the the 2023 season when USC had no WRs and an abysmal defense that gave up 35+ points a game. CW did play hero ball too much last season when he had to put up 40 points to have a shot to win. That will need to be coached out of him for sure. But....his release and reads are way faster the Fields when he isn't trying to win the game all by himself.
Yeah, but are fields when he has time and a guy open. You give a reason that CW had a dismal defense as to why he held the ball too long, but dismiss any reason for Fields.
Fields didn't have an abysmal defense. In the 2nd half of the year, he actually had a top-10 defense. That's the reason he won games like he did against Minnesota 12-10.
And Fields had a top-10 WR and a legit TE. Not a stellar cast by any means on O but way better than CW had at USC in 2023. That team was utter garbage except at QB.
Post by brasilbear on Feb 22, 2024 13:00:21 GMT -6
Has Wilson been cut yet or is he still under contract in Denver? Never mind, just checked. The important date for him is March 17th. Thats when money becomes guaranteed.
If you are a team....say....the Falcons, would you trade for Fields now or be willing to wait for Wilson to be cut? Its just a few weeks, and Denver might have to lower their asking price if they really want to trade him. Denver has literally no good options here.
(1) If the Broncos really want to cause a stir, they can simply outright release Wilson before March 17th. All that would lead to is a $39M cash payment, and an $85M dead cap hit (a loss of $49.6M against their 2024 cap table)
(2) If the Broncos were to do absolutely nothing to this contract, but then designate Wilson a Post 6/1 release prior to March 17th (when his $37M salary for 2025 becomes fully guaranteed), Denver would carry his entire $35.4M salary cap hit into June, then take on dead cap hits of $53M for 2024, & $32M in 2025.
(3) If Denver exercises the option bonus then designates him a Post June 1st release (before March 17th), they can push $17.6M of that cap into 2025, leading to a $35.4M dead hit in 2024, & a $49.6M hit in 2025. This represents $0 savings for the upcoming season, but actually opens up $5.8M of cap for the 2025 season.
(4) If the Broncos feel like they need to free up cap space in 2024 by moving on from their $39M guaranteed QB (snarky tone), they can exercise the $22M option bonus AND convert $15.79M of his $17M base salary into a signing bonus this March. Then, a Post June 1st release designation would come with a 2024 dead cap hit of $22.768M, but a 2025 dead cap hit at $62.2M.
(5) Denver exercises the $22M option bonus, spreading it out over the next 5 seasons of the contract for cap purposes. They then carry Wilson’s $35.4M salary cap hit into June, and pray that somebody’s free agency & draft went horribly wrong a month ago. Now, Wilson is on a $17M guarantee for 2024, & a $37M guarantee for 2025. Is there a team willing to take on Russell Wilson at 2 years, $54M?
Has Wilson been cut yet or is he still under contract in Denver? Never mind, just checked. The important date for him is March 17th. Thats when money becomes guaranteed.
If you are a team....say....the Falcons, would you trade for Fields now or be willing to wait for Wilson to be cut? Its just a few weeks, and Denver might have to lower their asking price if they really want to trade him. Denver has literally no good options here.
(1) If the Broncos really want to cause a stir, they can simply outright release Wilson before March 17th. All that would lead to is a $39M cash payment, and an $85M dead cap hit (a loss of $49.6M against their 2024 cap table)
(2) If the Broncos were to do absolutely nothing to this contract, but then designate Wilson a Post 6/1 release prior to March 17th (when his $37M salary for 2025 becomes fully guaranteed), Denver would carry his entire $35.4M salary cap hit into June, then take on dead cap hits of $53M for 2024, & $32M in 2025.
(3) If Denver exercises the option bonus then designates him a Post June 1st release (before March 17th), they can push $17.6M of that cap into 2025, leading to a $35.4M dead hit in 2024, & a $49.6M hit in 2025. This represents $0 savings for the upcoming season, but actually opens up $5.8M of cap for the 2025 season.
(4) If the Broncos feel like they need to free up cap space in 2024 by moving on from their $39M guaranteed QB (snarky tone), they can exercise the $22M option bonus AND convert $15.79M of his $17M base salary into a signing bonus this March. Then, a Post June 1st release designation would come with a 2024 dead cap hit of $22.768M, but a 2025 dead cap hit at $62.2M.
(5) Denver exercises the $22M option bonus, spreading it out over the next 5 seasons of the contract for cap purposes. They then carry Wilson’s $35.4M salary cap hit into June, and pray that somebody’s free agency & draft went horribly wrong a month ago. Now, Wilson is on a $17M guarantee for 2024, & a $37M guarantee for 2025. Is there a team willing to take on Russell Wilson at 2 years, $54M?
Just a guess, but I would think that if they knew they were going to do it. I mean KNOW, as in not dependent on what they could trade the 1st pick for or anything else.... that they had made the decision to trade him, that they would do it shortly after the combine. I think that's when they will get the offers.
That Russell Wilson deal was pretty bad for the Broncos. He's had a great run, especially considering he was a 3rd round drafted QB. But he looks seriously in decline now. His best days are behind him.