Exactly. I think it would be more of getting MHJ vs not getting him. Then using the second pick on a DE or 3T. Then going into the 2nd round getting a C and filling other needs. Trading JF would not have the same results. We would use the top pick on a QB rather than MHJ. We would, however get additional picks for JF, so that would offset the loss of MHJ. It still keeps coming back to whether or not we can win a SB with JH or not. That is not clear. We can't the way things are. I think that's clear. I'm not sure about the answer after we replace the OC, other QB and WR related coaches, add another top WR, and fix the OL. I am hopeful that we can with that.
It's too early for me to take mock draft scenarios seriously but lets just say...
We draft QB at #1
At #9, we draft Odunze if he's there. If not, we trade down as far as we can get. This WR class is DEEP. There's a lotta guys who should do well as a #2 opposite DJ Moore. As Ric has pointed out, lots and lots of really good WRs get drafted in the late-1st and 2nd rounds. Doesn't have to be top-10 pick.
That trade should get you an extra 2nd or 2-3rds at the very least. Trading Justin will get you a 2nd as well.
That means after drafting CW, you'd still have a 1st and 3 Day2 picks left. It could be 4 if Cunningham gets hired here shortly.
I would hope Poles is looking to add a vet C in FA (adding maybe a 3rd round pick to develop behind him) and a blue-chip defensive player. He has the $ to sign JJ and add two solid vets with a rookie QB on a cheap 4 year deal.
This is where I'm at. I also think we could get a really good edge like Bralen Trice in the late teens to early 20's. You still have receivers like Brian Thomas Jr., Troy Franklin, Keon Coleman, Adonai Mitchell, and Ja'Lynn Polk who l all like a lot.
Poles missed on Carter and Stroud. That will be his legacy unless Bears are Super Bowl ready by 2025. If that happens, I’ll get on your bandwagon. If not, I’ll invite you to join mine.
Poles didn't miss on either of them. Stroud was long gone by time we picked and Carter didn't have the "Warren Sapp 2.0" season you kept on saying he was going to have. He was barely on the field, and Kobe Turner, who was drafted in the 3rd round, SMOKED him in production! I know you'll bring up Carters PFF score...but that doesn't help you win games...production does.
His legacy is he traded the #1 pick for a HAUL that included DJ Moore, All Rookie Team Member Darnell Wright, Bears Rookie of the Year, winner of NFC Defensive Player of the Week, Defensive Rookie of the Year Candidate Tyrique Stevenson, this years #1 pick which will likely be one of the most highly regarded QB's since Andrew Luck in Caleb Williams, and a 2nd round pick next year. Thats a HELLUVA legacy!!!
I think what David is saying is that Poles wasn't "blown away" (his words) by Stroud when in retrospect he should have been.
No one seriously blames him for doing what he did instead. He needed to get a WR and give Fields a 3rd year to sink or swim. As far as Carter goes, my position on that hasn't changed from 12 months ago. Carter was too big a character risk for an early rebuild and we desperately needed help at OT.
So while Poles was justified at the time in doing what he did, he also did pass on Stroud when he had the #1 pick in hand. That's reason #23 for me why there's no freaking way he's gonna pass again at #1 on Caleb this year. He's NEVER gonna get this chance again and the Bears organization is never gonna have back-to-back #1 picks again for decades, if ever.
And Shane Waldron didn't agree to come here when he had other options to put his ass on the line for a one-year suicide mission trying to salvage Fields. He came here for the opportunity to drop Caleb Williams into an O that will have Moore, Kmet, and a new 1st/2nd round WR to work with for the next few seasons.
Poles didn't miss on either of them. Stroud was long gone by time we picked and Carter didn't have the "Warren Sapp 2.0" season you kept on saying he was going to have. He was barely on the field, and Kobe Turner, who was drafted in the 3rd round, SMOKED him in production! I know you'll bring up Carters PFF score...but that doesn't help you win games...production does.
His legacy is he traded the #1 pick for a HAUL that included DJ Moore, All Rookie Team Member Darnell Wright, Bears Rookie of the Year, winner of NFC Defensive Player of the Week, Defensive Rookie of the Year Candidate Tyrique Stevenson, this years #1 pick which will likely be one of the most highly regarded QB's since Andrew Luck in Caleb Williams, and a 2nd round pick next year. Thats a HELLUVA legacy!!!
I think what David is saying is that Poles wasn't "blown away" (his words) by Stroud when in retrospect he should have been.
No one seriously blames him for doing what he did instead. He needed to get a WR and give Fields a 3rd year to sink or swim. As far as Carter goes, my position on that hasn't changed from 12 years ago. Carter was too big a character risk for an early rebuild and we desperately needed help at OT.
So while Poles was justified at the time in doing what he did, he also did pass on Stroud when he had the #1 pick in hand. That's reason #23 for me why there's no freaking way he's gonna pass again at #1 on Caleb this year. He's NEVER gonna get this chance again and the Bears organization is never gonna have back-to-back #1 picks again for decades, if ever.
And Shane Waldron didn't agree to come here when he had other options to put his ass on the line for a one-year suicide mission trying to salvage Fields. He came here for the opportunity to drop Caleb Williams into an O that will have Moore, Kmet, and a new 1st/2nd round WR to work with for the next few seasons.
Well, if he told you that, then we have that settled.
I think what David is saying is that Poles wasn't "blown away" (his words) by Stroud when in retrospect he should have been.
No one seriously blames him for doing what he did instead. He needed to get a WR and give Fields a 3rd year to sink or swim. As far as Carter goes, my position on that hasn't changed from 12 years ago. Carter was too big a character risk for an early rebuild and we desperately needed help at OT.
So while Poles was justified at the time in doing what he did, he also did pass on Stroud when he had the #1 pick in hand. That's reason #23 for me why there's no freaking way he's gonna pass again at #1 on Caleb this year. He's NEVER gonna get this chance again and the Bears organization is never gonna have back-to-back #1 picks again for decades, if ever.
And Shane Waldron didn't agree to come here when he had other options to put his ass on the line for a one-year suicide mission trying to salvage Fields. He came here for the opportunity to drop Caleb Williams into an O that will have Moore, Kmet, and a new 1st/2nd round WR to work with for the next few seasons.
Well, if he told you that, then we have that settled.
I mean it makes the most sense. No self respecting OC is going to want to come here for a 1 year suicide mission trying to help a Tier 3 QB become a Tier 2.
We have the #1 overall pick and the #9 overall pick. We are far ahead of last year in terms of a rebuild.
We have the worst QB in the division, a QB that a divisional rival says if you want us to lose you make him play QB.
Poles didn't miss on either of them. Stroud was long gone by time we picked and Carter didn't have the "Warren Sapp 2.0" season you kept on saying he was going to have. He was barely on the field, and Kobe Turner, who was drafted in the 3rd round, SMOKED him in production! I know you'll bring up Carters PFF score...but that doesn't help you win games...production does.
His legacy is he traded the #1 pick for a HAUL that included DJ Moore, All Rookie Team Member Darnell Wright, Bears Rookie of the Year, winner of NFC Defensive Player of the Week, Defensive Rookie of the Year Candidate Tyrique Stevenson, this years #1 pick which will likely be one of the most highly regarded QB's since Andrew Luck in Caleb Williams, and a 2nd round pick next year. Thats a HELLUVA legacy!!!
I think what David is saying is that Poles wasn't "blown away" (his words) by Stroud when in retrospect he should have been.
No one seriously blames him for doing what he did instead. He needed to get a WR and give Fields a 3rd year to sink or swim. As far as Carter goes, my position on that hasn't changed from 12 years ago. Carter was too big a character risk for an early rebuild and we desperately needed help at OT.
So while Poles was justified at the time in doing what he did, he also did pass on Stroud when he had the #1 pick in hand. That's reason #23 for me why there's no freaking way he's gonna pass again at #1 on Caleb this year. He's NEVER gonna get this chance again and the Bears organization is never gonna have back-to-back #1 picks again for decades, if ever.
And Shane Waldron didn't agree to come here when he had other options to put his ass on the line for a one-year suicide mission trying to salvage Fields. He came here for the opportunity to drop Caleb Williams into an O that will have Moore, Kmet, and a new 1st/2nd round WR to work with for the next few seasons.
But again, context is needed. Stroud wasn't seen as the best QB prospect in the draft, nor at a level of Williams or Maye. Houston, though some want to argue with this, was also in a better place than we would have been had we not made the trade. They already had a very good o-line anchored by a stud left tackle in Laremy Tunsil. They already had a #1 receiver ready to break out in his 3rd year based off a lot of very good things he did the year before, and depth at the position after that. They signed a legit tight end in free agency and they hired a great coaching staff. We draft Stroud here at #1 instead of making the trade and he's throwing to Mooney and Claypool as his best receivers and playing behind a line that has Lucas Patrick at center who knows at right tackle. Night and day different situation. You deal with the information you have at the time and the situation you're in.
We're in a MUCH different situation this time around, as we've discussed...which is why I don't think they trade the pick. Poles worked this masterfully, and yes, some luck was involved too...but what is it they say? Luck is the product of design or something or other. He gave Fields a legit weapon all while improving the infrastructure for a rookie QB to come into should they need to go that route.
Well, if he told you that, then we have that settled.
I mean it makes the most sense. No self respecting OC is going to want to come here for a 1 year suicide mission trying to help a QB he feels is a Tier 3 QB become a Tier 2.
We have the #1 overall pick and the #9 overall pick. We are far ahead of last year in terms of a rebuild.
We have the worst QB in the division, a QB that a divisional rival says if you want us to lose you make him play QB.
I mean it makes the most sense. No self respecting OC is going to want to come here for a 1 year suicide mission trying to help a QB he feels is a Tier 3 QB become a Tier 2.
We have the #1 overall pick and the #9 overall pick. We are far ahead of last year in terms of a rebuild.
We have the worst QB in the division, a QB that a divisional rival says if you want us to lose you make him play QB.
I fixed it for you.
I don't think stats and feelings can go hand in hand.
Fields is a subpar QB who throws an average of 166.9 yards per game (Career wise) while having 1 TD per game (Career wise).
For 2023. Half of Fields TDs came from the Broncos and Commanders. Which were 4 each. So in the other 11 games, he only scored 8 TDs. His QB rating went from a 85 to 86 adding DJ Moore to this team.
He is one of the worst 4th Quarter QB in the league. 55.3 passer rating which is ranked 48th amount active QBs.
In 40 games he's played as a starter. Only 14 games he passed over 200 yards including one game he passed over 300 yards. 6 games he passed for less than 100.
I'm not trying to use feelings as a way to argue about Fields. Its all about facts which come from stats.
Those that want to keep Fields only use what if's and feelings. Those that want to get rid of Fields are throwing numbers around. I was a huge Field supporter when we drafted him and was 100% ok with Poles not going after a QB last year and to give Fields that one chance. Most here were ok with it and knew we had another 1st to make up for it if he did fail again. Which he did. Now we have the chance to draft his replacement with the first overall and people still trying to pretend he's a Tier 2 QB who can become a Tier 1 with a super team around him?
When you look at the stats above. Are you really willing to ride another season with this type of QB play while Stroud and Love are taking off?
I think what David is saying is that Poles wasn't "blown away" (his words) by Stroud when in retrospect he should have been.
No one seriously blames him for doing what he did instead. He needed to get a WR and give Fields a 3rd year to sink or swim. As far as Carter goes, my position on that hasn't changed from 12 years ago. Carter was too big a character risk for an early rebuild and we desperately needed help at OT.
So while Poles was justified at the time in doing what he did, he also did pass on Stroud when he had the #1 pick in hand. That's reason #23 for me why there's no freaking way he's gonna pass again at #1 on Caleb this year. He's NEVER gonna get this chance again and the Bears organization is never gonna have back-to-back #1 picks again for decades, if ever.
And Shane Waldron didn't agree to come here when he had other options to put his ass on the line for a one-year suicide mission trying to salvage Fields. He came here for the opportunity to drop Caleb Williams into an O that will have Moore, Kmet, and a new 1st/2nd round WR to work with for the next few seasons.
Well, if he told you that, then we have that settled.
I don't think stats and feelings can go hand in hand.
Fields is a subpar QB who throws an average of 166.9 yards per game (Career wise) while having 1 TD per game (Career wise).
For 2023. Half of Fields TDs came from the Broncos and Commanders. Which were 4 each. So in the other 11 games, he only scored 8 TDs. His QB rating went from a 85 to 86 adding DJ Moore to this team.
He is one of the worst 4th Quarter QB in the league. 55.3 passer rating which is ranked 48th amount active QBs.
In 40 games he's played as a starter. Only 14 games he passed over 200 yards including one game he passed over 300 yards. 6 games he passed for less than 100.
I'm not trying to use feelings as a way to argue about Fields. Its all about facts which come from stats.
Those that want to keep Fields only use what if's and feelings. Those that want to get rid of Fields are throwing numbers around. I was a huge Field supporter when we drafted him and was 100% ok with Poles not going after a QB last year and to give Fields that one chance. Most here were ok with it and knew we had another 1st to make up for it if he did fail again. Which he did. Now we have the chance to draft his replacement with the first overall and people still trying to pretend he's a Tier 2 QB who can become a Tier 1 with a super team around him?
When you look at the stats above. Are you really willing to ride another season with this type of QB play while Stroud and Love are taking off?
Of course not. We need to get him to play better. I think we agree on that.