I don't know what games you were watching, but the reason Caleb is praised for having great pocket presence is because the pocket frequently broke down around him. While I don't agree he had a shit team, he didn't have the best supporting cast at times. This is very evident on tape.
In a lot ways Caleb's situation reminds me of Lamar Jackson's. The year after Lamar won the Heisman he didn't appear to have as good a year as the previous. This likely contributed to him falling so far in the draft (Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold were both drafted ahead of him, haha). But if you'd watched all his games you would have seen the team around him was much worse and he was having to do most of the lifting. This put him in positions where he had to play more desperate than he should have. In fact his stats weren't even all that different, but lousy play around him colored everyone's perception of him.
USC was a low-quality college team last year outside of QB. Not even in the same league as the top SEC or Big-10 teams nor several in their own conference.
Exactly. Caleb was going against some soft defenses in comparison to what Fields was going against at OSU.
USC was a low-quality college team last year outside of QB. Not even in the same league as the top SEC or Big-10 teams nor several in their own conference.
Exactly. Caleb was going against some soft defenses in comparison to what Fields was going against at OSU.
Caleb also had to elevate garbage players. Something Fields can't do.
Exactly. Caleb was going against some soft defenses in comparison to what Fields was going against at OSU.
Caleb also had to elevate garbage players. Something Fields can't do.
You just proved my point. Caleb didn't. Even going against those soft defenses he failed to do much of anything other than "lead" his team to a 6th place finish. Sixth. He didn't elevate anything.
Personally, I don't care...I'd prefer to roll with Fields, draft blue chippers and reload next year. Other disagree and I can't argue with drafting a QB and dropping him into a team that looks close to starting its roll.
But...here's a few videos that are pro-Williams. Remember the infamous Watson video that a poster pushed as the reasons to not draft Watson (couldn't throw the deep ball and was inaccurate in general)? All these videos show cherry picked plays to prove the point, so don't kill the messenger.
I like Fields staying but admit that Caleb Williams could be an incredible QB for us if the Bears finish the rebuild this year to provide him a better OL and another stud WR. And if the new coaches can truly build the offense around him (everything the Bears didn't do for Fields). It would be a better situation than past Bears QBs have stepped into here.
Personally, I don't care...I'd prefer to roll with Fields, draft blue chippers and reload next year. Other disagree and I can't argue with drafting a QB and dropping him into a team that looks close to starting its roll.
But...here's a few videos that are pro-Williams. Remember the infamous Watson video that a poster pushed as the reasons to not draft Watson (couldn't throw the deep ball and was inaccurate in general)? All these videos show cherry picked plays to prove the point, so don't kill the messenger.
I like Fields staying but admit that Caleb Williams could be an incredible QB for us if the Bears finish the rebuild this year to provide him a better OL and another stud WR. And if the new coaches can truly build the offense around him (everything the Bears didn't do for Fields). It would be a better situation than past Bears QBs have stepped into here.
yeah. I don't know, so am not going to one pick over the other. All I am going to continue to say is that the best solution both long and short term were if JF could be made to play better. I think it would take a new OC, better O-line and more offensive weapons to have any hope of that happening. I think he has the tools and the mental toughness. Whether he has the ability to excel in a fast paced offense where he can put the ball where it needs to be prior to the WR getting there, I don't know. I just don't know. I saw Goff today do well when he had time and I saw him do poorly when he did not. Not much different in that respect than JF.
I like Fields staying but admit that Caleb Williams could be an incredible QB for us if the Bears finish the rebuild this year to provide him a better OL and another stud WR. And if the new coaches can truly build the offense around him (everything the Bears didn't do for Fields). It would be a better situation than past Bears QBs have stepped into here.
yeah. I don't know, so am not going to pick over the other. All I am going to continue to say is that the best solution both long and short term were if JF could be made to play better. I think it would take a new OC, better O-line and more offensive weapons to have any hope of that happening. I think he has the tools and the mental toughness. Whether he has the ability to excel in a fast paced offense where he can put the ball where it needs to be prior to the WR getting there, I don't know. I just don't know. I saw Goff today do well when he had time and I saw him do poorly when he did not. Not much different in that respect than JF.
100% Mahomes had half an hour each time, esp in 1st half. Basically, half in half.
yeah. I don't know, so am not going to pick over the other. All I am going to continue to say is that the best solution both long and short term were if JF could be made to play better. I think it would take a new OC, better O-line and more offensive weapons to have any hope of that happening. I think he has the tools and the mental toughness. Whether he has the ability to excel in a fast paced offense where he can put the ball where it needs to be prior to the WR getting there, I don't know. I just don't know. I saw Goff today do well when he had time and I saw him do poorly when he did not. Not much different in that respect than JF.
100% Mahomes had half an hour each time, esp in 1st half. Basically, half in half.
I literally don't have a dog in this fight. I don't ascribe ill-will to Poles, Fields, Warren...(maybe Nagy but he's about to win another SB ring). Just pick a lane and follow it.
100% Mahomes had half an hour each time, esp in 1st half. Basically, half in half.
I literally don't have a dog in this fight. I don't ascribe ill-will to Poles, Fields, Warren...(maybe Nagy but he's about to win another SB ring). Just pick a lane and follow it.
Me neither, I really dont. I just want da Bears to pick wisely this time, get it right. And have some luck along the way
No they're not really. Context matters. Watching even a little bit of tape will show you why. That YT link that Brasil posted, I encourage you to watch that if you haven't. You can see Williams has a very spotty OL and is often under pressure immediately on many plays forcing him to extend plays which are going to push that time up. You can also see that he can get it out very fast when he needs to. He has a much faster throwing motion and it gets out quick.
Both Aaron Rogers and Mahomes like to hold on the ball a long time as well. But no one is going to mistake Fields for one of them.
CW's release is wayyyyy faster than Fields. His short game accuracy and ball placement are way better too.
Williams was understandably criticized for playing hero ball too often (leading to increased TTT) last season as he was often playing from behind and on a shit team. He will need to be coached there but his "mental clock" and delivery is way quicker than Justin's is no matter how much the "Build around Fields crowd" wants to deny it.
Fields has had 3 years and 40 games. When do the excuses end?
Yeah, Caleb's release is lightening quick. Much, much faster than Fields. Can't debate that.
I don't know what games you were watching, but the reason Caleb is praised for having great pocket presence is because the pocket frequently broke down around him. While I don't agree he had a shit team, he didn't have the best supporting cast at times. This is very evident on tape.
In a lot ways Caleb's situation reminds me of Lamar Jackson's. The year after Lamar won the Heisman he didn't appear to have as good a year as the previous. This likely contributed to him falling so far in the draft (Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold were both drafted ahead of him, haha). But if you'd watched all his games you would have seen the team around him was much worse and he was having to do most of the lifting. This put him in positions where he had to play more desperate than he should have. In fact his stats weren't even all that different, but lousy play around him colored everyone's perception of him.
But that was Justin Fields' situation when he arrived at Chicago. I'll be honest. I could see Williams turn out to be Patrick Mahomes level, but just as easily I could see him being a "poor man's Justin Fields" here too. If we draft him I hope it is the former and not the latter case.
I'm a Fields guy, but I think the infrastructure here is LIGHT YEARS better than what Fields came into if we were to draft Caleb. He's got a legit #1 receiver, he's got a legit tight end, and he's got a decent to good o-line that could be very good if they address the center position. He will also be getting an experienced play caller with a track record of results. Fields had none of that.