Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one?

davidl
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 20, 2023 20:56:16 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Dec 20, 2023 20:56:16 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2023 20:38:12 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Dec 20, 2023 15:45:18 GMT -6 davidl said:

Yeah, you are right. It is a lot more than a dozen.

Quick count...

Isaish Coulter, Nsimba Webster, E . St-Brow, Byron Pringle, Chris Finke, Cyrus Holder, Landon Lenoir, Henry Litwin, Kevin Shaa, Savon Scarver, Dane Pettis, Tajae Sharp, N’Keal Harry, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Reggie Rberson, Chase Claypool, Joe Reed, Tyler Scott, Isih Ford, Thyrick Pitts, ron Cruickshank, Trent Taylor, Collin Hohnson, V. Jones

Please Get a grip

Those are almost all those are UDFAs every team brings to camp to fill out a 90 man roster every single preseason. Or very late draft picks.

The only ones that matter are the ones I listed earlier in this thread--there's 3 only of significance.

I know all that. You are missing the point. Let me put it this way: Poles has a CHOICE who to sign off waivers, free agents (including good WRs he didn’t bring in), who to draft, who to trade for, etc. And after all his CHOICES — both those he made and those he passed over— this is the pathetic list he has to show for it. You’d think, if Poles is the genius everybody believes, he’d bring in at least ONE who is worth a damn.

He got Moore. That’s it. You can trade the #1 pick for any WR in the league. A trained chimp can do that as easily as blowing up the roster trading away or cutting good players.

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mpbears68
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 20, 2023 23:28:27 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Dec 20, 2023 23:28:27 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2023 20:56:16 GMT -6 davidl said:

Dec 20, 2023 20:38:12 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Please Get a grip

Those are almost all those are UDFAs every team brings to camp to fill out a 90 man roster every single preseason. Or very late draft picks.

The only ones that matter are the ones I listed earlier in this thread--there's 3 only of significance.

I know all that. You are missing the point. Let me put it this way: Poles has a CHOICE who to sign off waivers, free agents (including good WRs he didn’t bring in), who to draft, who to trade for, etc. And after all his CHOICES — both those he made and those he passed over— this is the pathetic list he has to show for it. You’d think, if Poles is the genius everybody believes, he’d bring in at least ONE who is worth a damn.

He got Moore. That’s it. You can trade the #1 pick for any WR in the league. A trained chimp can do that as easily as blowing up the roster trading away or cutting good players.

Really?

Cuz I vividly remember debating what we could get in trade for the #1 pick last March and you said the haul we received was never gonna happen. I had to explain to you how the draft value chart works. You derided "the sacred chart" for weeks until you learned that is is indeed REAL.

Oh, and why don't you post the list of every WR the Seahawks have had on their preseason roster at some point the last 2 years. You'd find another long list of names no one has ever heard of too.

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davidl
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 21, 2023 0:38:20 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Dec 21, 2023 0:38:20 GMT -6

Dec 20, 2023 23:28:27 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Dec 20, 2023 20:56:16 GMT -6 davidl said:

I know all that. You are missing the point. Let me put it this way: Poles has a CHOICE who to sign off waivers, free agents (including good WRs he didn’t bring in), who to draft, who to trade for, etc. And after all his CHOICES6 — both those he made and those he passed over— this is the pathetic list he has to show for it. You’d think, if Poles is the genius everybody believes, he’d bring in at least ONE who is worth a damn.

He got Moore. That’s it. You can trade the #1 pick for any WR in the league. A trained chimp can do that as easily as blowing up the roster trading away or cutting good players.

Really?

Cuz I vividly remember debating what we could get in trade for the #1 pick last March and you said the haul we received was never gonna happen. I had to explain to you how the draft value chart works. You derided "the sacred chart" for weeks until you learned that is is indeed REAL.

Oh, and why don't you post the list of every WR the Seahawks have had on their preseason roster at some point the last 2 years. You'd find another long list of names no one has ever heard of too.

The sacred chart is inapplicable when a player is in the deal. John Schneider is way better GM than Poles will ever be. Jake Bobo is a better receiver than any Bear except Moore, and JS signed him as a free agent.

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Last Edit: Dec 21, 2023 0:44:10 GMT -6 by davidl

brasilbear
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 21, 2023 6:34:02 GMT -6 AlexM, dachuckster, and 2 more like this

Post by brasilbear on Dec 21, 2023 6:34:02 GMT -6

While I understand the advantage losing would bring I never cheer/root for the Bears to lose once the game starts. Never. I've left the chat before when people started celebrating losses before the game even ended.

I never root for the Bears to lose.

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Last Edit: Dec 21, 2023 8:52:47 GMT -6 by brasilbear

AlexM
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 21, 2023 10:52:36 GMT -6 via mobile

Post by AlexM on Dec 21, 2023 10:52:36 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2023 6:34:02 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

While I understand the advantage losing would bring I never cheer/root for the Bears to lose once the game starts. Never. I've left the chat before when people started celebrating losses before the game even ended.

I never root for the Bears to lose.

Me too. I just cannot do it.
Especially now as my kid is watching games with me.
He was literally crushed last weekend. So happy end of 3rd q, sad and angry when it ended. Cant lie, that got to me.

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Last Edit: Dec 21, 2023 10:52:50 GMT -6 by AlexM

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mpbears68
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 21, 2023 12:39:36 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Dec 21, 2023 12:39:36 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2023 0:38:20 GMT -6 davidl said:

Dec 20, 2023 23:28:27 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Really?

Cuz I vividly remember debating what we could get in trade for the #1 pick last March and you said the haul we received was never gonna happen. I had to explain to you how the draft value chart works. You derided "the sacred chart" for weeks until you learned that is is indeed REAL.

Oh, and why don't you post the list of every WR the Seahawks have had on their preseason roster at some point the last 2 years. You'd find another long list of names no one has ever heard of too.

The sacred chart is inapplicable when a player is in the deal. John Schneider is way better GM than Poles will ever be. Jake Bobo is a better receiver than any Bear except Moore, and JS signed him as a free agent.

No it is not

The remaining difference in value after accounting for picks represents the trade market value of the player in question, considering all factors involved (his contract status, production, injury history, etc.)

This is simple stuff

And I guarantee the Seahawks have a similar list of "lost dogs" who have been on their roster at some point over the last 2 preseasons. Every team does. Bears list might be slightly longer as they were in a teardown year last season and were only signing bargain basement FAs.

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davidl
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 21, 2023 13:05:32 GMT -6 mpbears68 likes this

Post by davidl on Dec 21, 2023 13:05:32 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2023 12:39:36 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Dec 21, 2023 0:38:20 GMT -6 davidl said:

The sacred chart is inapplicable when a player is in the deal. John Schneider is way better GM than Poles will ever be. Jake Bobo is a better receiver than any Bear except Moore, and JS signed him as a free agent.

No it is not

The remaining difference in value after accounting for picks represents the trade market value of the player in question, considering all factors involved (his contract status, production, injury history, etc.)

This is simple stuff

And I guarantee the Seahawks have a similar list of "lost dogs" who have been on their roster at some point over the last 2 preseasons. Every team does. Bears list might be slightly longer as they were in a teardown year last season and were only signing bargain basement FAs.

It is inapplicable because you can ask 100 people what’s the point value of the player in the deal, and you’ll get 100 different opinions. You and I differed on Moore’s point value.

Again, you missed the point. I know all about 90-man rosters. Poles put a whole bunch of crap WRs with no chance. A good GM gets a hit once in awhile even on these guys if he’s a good judge of talent. You mentioned Seahawks, so I gave you Jake Bobo as an example. He was the definition of a camp body last spring, but shined in OTA and training camp, and has been a productive WR4 behind DK, Lockett, JSN. And guys like EQ, Pringle, Pettis, V. Jones, Scott, etc. have been hand-picked by Poles and collectively paid $$$ millions, all he has to show for all this activity is DJ Moore.

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mpbears68
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 21, 2023 23:03:03 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Dec 21, 2023 23:03:03 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2023 13:05:32 GMT -6 davidl said:

Dec 21, 2023 12:39:36 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

No it is not

The remaining difference in value after accounting for picks represents the trade market value of the player in question, considering all factors involved (his contract status, production, injury history, etc.)

This is simple stuff

And I guarantee the Seahawks have a similar list of "lost dogs" who have been on their roster at some point over the last 2 preseasons. Every team does. Bears list might be slightly longer as they were in a teardown year last season and were only signing bargain basement FAs.

It is inapplicable because you can ask 100 people what’s the point value of the player in the deal, and you’ll get 100 different opinions. You and I differed on Moore’s point value.

Again, you missed the point. I know all about 90-man rosters. Poles put a whole bunch of crap WRs with no chance. A good GM gets a hit once in awhile even on these guys if he’s a good judge of talent. You mentioned Seahawks, so I gave you Jake Bobo as an example. He was the definition of a camp body last spring, but shined in OTA and training camp, and has been a productive WR4 behind DK, Lockett, JSN. And guys like EQ, Pringle, Pettis, V. Jones, Scott, etc. have been hand-picked by Poles and collectively paid $$$ millions, all he has to show for all this activity is DJ Moore.

If you don't think Moore is 1st round value, I can't help you.

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davidl
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 21, 2023 23:39:34 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Dec 21, 2023 23:39:34 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2023 23:03:03 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Dec 21, 2023 13:05:32 GMT -6 davidl said:

It is inapplicable because you can ask 100 people what’s the point value of the player in the deal, and you’ll get 100 different opinions. You and I differed on Moore’s point value.

Again, you missed the point. I know all about 90-man rosters. Poles put a whole bunch of crap WRs with no chance. A good GM gets a hit once in awhile even on these guys if he’s a good judge of talent. You mentioned Seahawks, so I gave you Jake Bobo as an example. He was the definition of a camp body last spring, but shined in OTA and training camp, and has been a productive WR4 behind DK, Lockett, JSN. And guys like EQ, Pringle, Pettis, V. Jones, Scott, etc. have been hand-picked by Poles and collectively paid $$$ millions, all he has to show for all this activity is DJ Moore.

If you don't think Moore is 1st round value, I can't help you.

Like I said, it doesn’t compute. Moore is a better receiver than any rookie Poles could have drafted. If we win the Super Bowl in 2025, it’s a great deal. If not, he will be out of here like T. Hill going from KC to Miami. Poles will have to give Fields a big contract by then and will have cap issues like KC had with Hill. Alternatively, pay Fields and use the first round pick for a WR on a rookie contract. He would be 22 when Moore is age 29. And if Poles drafts a QB who isn’t a ready-made super star, we are even less likely to be Super Bowl ready by 2025.

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Last Edit: Dec 22, 2023 0:02:25 GMT -6 by davidl

mpbears68
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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one? Dec 22, 2023 9:26:40 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Dec 22, 2023 9:26:40 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2023 23:39:34 GMT -6 davidl said:

Dec 21, 2023 23:03:03 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

If you don't think Moore is 1st round value, I can't help you.

Like I said, it doesn’t compute. Moore is a better receiver than any rookie Poles could have drafted. If we win the Super Bowl in 2025, it’s a great deal. If not, he will be out of here like T. Hill going from KC to Miami. Poles will have to give Fields a big contract by then and will have cap issues like KC had with Hill. Alternatively, pay Fields and use the first round pick for a WR on a rookie contract. He would be 22 when Moore is age 29. And if Poles drafts a QB who isn’t a ready-made super star, we are even less likely to be Super Bowl ready by 2025.

I'm not at all worried about paying Fields at this point. He isn't getting paid this offseason and he would need a whole host of positive things to happen next year for that. Assuming he is even still here which is looking increasingly unlikely.

It was a spectacular deal that way it worked out. I guarantee you the Carolina front office is hating themselves for making it behind the scenes.

Whether or not the Bears are "SB ready" in 2025 depends far more on who is under center.

I think Poles quietly regrets not taking CJ Stroud now (who wouldn't?) even though it was understandable at the time to give Fields year 3 to "break out". The breakout never happened. My guess is that he's not gonna pass on a QB this April again.

How that works out is anyone's guess. If he drafts a QB and that guy flops, Poles will be fired and we will rebooting the whole front office once again.

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Last Edit: Dec 22, 2023 9:27:36 GMT -6 by mpbears68

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Cardinals @ Bears. Is it better now if we lose this one?

Post by davidl on Dec 20, 2023 20:56:16 GMT -6

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