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butkus3595
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 5:35:06 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 8, 2023 5:35:06 GMT -6

Dec 7, 2023 22:54:53 GMT -6 davidl said:

Dec 7, 2023 22:47:01 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

You LOVED Scott a couple months ago. Kept talking about him replacing and supplanting Mooney. Now you are complaining about the pick.

Man, you flip with every change in the breeze

He’s been getting more playing time since then.

More data > better evaluation.

Also, if you go back and look at those posts, I think you will find that I said I was hoping he will be good enough to replace Mooney — not predicting it.

As you constantly remind me, Poles rookies will be so much better next year, so who knows?

LOL except for when it comes to Julius Brents...he can apparently not play for 7 weeks and still be the man!! LMAO!!!

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bsbears
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 9:17:32 GMT -6 via mobile butkus3595 likes this

Post by bsbears on Dec 8, 2023 9:17:32 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 5:25:50 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 7, 2023 22:23:31 GMT -6 davidl said:

Fine. But in PFF - or the real world - a hit is not as valuable as a sack.

I never said it was. I'll try again....if I sacked the QB I HAD TO hit them.

Maybe you tripped them. 😂

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davidl
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 10:01:00 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by davidl on Dec 8, 2023 10:01:00 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 5:35:06 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 7, 2023 22:54:53 GMT -6 davidl said:

He’s been getting more playing time since then.

More data > better evaluation.

Also, if you go back and look at those posts, I think you will find that I said I was hoping he will be good enough to replace Mooney — not predicting it.

As you constantly remind me, Poles rookies will be so much better next year, so who knows?

LOL except for when it comes to Julius Brents...he can apparently not play for 7 weeks and still be the man!! LMAO!!!

Nope. I could change my opinion on him, too. Nothing set in stone.

More data > better evaluation

The Webb telescope data is a good example. For decades astronomers believed there were no large galaxies in the early universe. Now they have new data that suggests they have been wrong.

For the record, I am open to changing my evaluations on all these players, and on Poles himself. I can imagine the Bears getting Harrison, jr., a good center, and a dominant defensive lineman in 2024 and being Super Bowl ready by 2025. That’s the scenario for keeping Fields. You and I agree on that.

However, at this point and current data, I want a better GM than Poles managing the roster. I know it’s not going to happen, and Warren doesn’t care what I want. As the saying goes, “Be careful what you wish for.” Maybe it will all work out, and I should take JABF advice, calm down, and put trust in Warren to figure it all out.

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Whisky Beer Bob
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 11:13:13 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by Whisky Beer Bob on Dec 8, 2023 11:13:13 GMT -6

I don't understand this arguement davidl You are mad that we did not draft Brents because he is a super duper all-pro-star but you also mentioned that Brents went BEFORE our pick.

So are you mad at the NFL draft system? Poles for not trading up to nab Brents? Or the fact that Brents could be busted?

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davidl
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 11:32:44 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Dec 8, 2023 11:32:44 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 11:13:13 GMT -6 Whisky Beer Bob said:

I don't understand this arguement davidl You are mad that we did not draft Brents because he is a super duper all-pro-star but you also mentioned that Brents went BEFORE our pick.

So are you mad at the NFL draft system? Poles for not trading up to nab Brents? Or the fact that Brents could be busted?

No. I am not projecting Brents as Pro Bowl at this point, although I think he has that potential. I would not have objected to Poles moving up a few spots in the second round to get him. It would all depend on the cost.

The only reason I mentioned him in this thread was to suggest it would be possible to draft a better CB than Stevenson in the second round 2024, if Poles trades Fields for a second round pick.

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JABF
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 14:21:20 GMT -6 bears40, Whisky Beer Bob, and 1 more like this

Post by JABF on Dec 8, 2023 14:21:20 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 11:32:44 GMT -6 davidl said:

Dec 8, 2023 11:13:13 GMT -6 Whisky Beer Bob said:

I don't understand this arguement davidl You are mad that we did not draft Brents because he is a super duper all-pro-star but you also mentioned that Brents went BEFORE our pick.

So are you mad at the NFL draft system? Poles for not trading up to nab Brents? Or the fact that Brents could be busted?

No. I am not projecting Brents as Pro Bowl at this point, although I think he has that potential. I would not have objected to Poles moving up a few spots in the second round to get him. It would all depend on the cost.

The only reason I mentioned him in this thread was to suggest it would be possible to draft a better CB than Stevenson in the second round 2024, if Poles trades Fields for a second round pick.

If Poles ends up with a 2nd round pick (however that happens) I hope he gets a C for the offensive line. No more deadbeat vets at that position. Draft a guy with the potential to be elite there for the next 10 or so years. A high second round pick may even get the BEST center in the entire 2024 draft class. Certainly it will get the next best if the top C goes in the first round. Get that guy who will anchor that entire IOL. Don't treat the position as an afterthought. Invest the resources into really fixing it.

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Last Edit: Dec 8, 2023 16:01:29 GMT -6 by JABF

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butkus3595
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 14:32:34 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 8, 2023 14:32:34 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 10:01:00 GMT -6 davidl said:

Dec 8, 2023 5:35:06 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

LOL except for when it comes to Julius Brents...he can apparently not play for 7 weeks and still be the man!! LMAO!!!

Nope. I could change my opinion on him, too. Nothing set in stone.

More data > better evaluation

The Webb telescope data is a good example. For decades astronomers believed there were no large galaxies in the early universe. Now they have new data that suggests they have been wrong.

For the record, I am open to changing my evaluations on all these players, and on Poles himself. I can imagine the Bears getting Harrison, jr., a good center, and a dominant defensive lineman in 2024 and being Super Bowl ready by 2025. That’s the scenario for keeping Fields. You and I agree on that.

However, at this point and current data, I want a better GM than Poles managing the roster. I know it’s not going to happen, and Warren doesn’t care what I want. As the saying goes, “Be careful what you wish for.” Maybe it will all work out, and I should take JABF advice, calm down, and put trust in Warren to figure it all out.

If you say you're open to changing your evaluations why do you speak with such certainty? And who is this better GM you speak of? You just like to throw out all willy nilly that this one and that one need to be replaced...a child could do that to quote someone I know. Who are you replacing them with that you KNOW will be better? You should calm down and maybe take the negative glasses off and recognize the job that Poles has done here. A job that everyone but you and like 3 other yo yo's thinks has been relatively good and has set this franchise up for success in the future.

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davidl
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 16:51:56 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Dec 8, 2023 16:51:56 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 14:32:34 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 8, 2023 10:01:00 GMT -6 davidl said:

Nope. I could change my opinion on him, too. Nothing set in stone.

More data > better evaluation

The Webb telescope data is a good example. For decades astronomers believed there were no large galaxies in the early universe. Now they have new data that suggests they have been wrong.

For the record, I am open to changing my evaluations on all these players, and on Poles himself. I can imagine the Bears getting Harrison, jr., a good center, and a dominant defensive lineman in 2024 and being Super Bowl ready by 2025. That’s the scenario for keeping Fields. You and I agree on that.

However, at this point and current data, I want a better GM than Poles managing the roster. I know it’s not going to happen, and Warren doesn’t care what I want. As the saying goes, “Be careful what you wish for.” Maybe it will all work out, and I should take JABF advice, calm down, and put trust in Warren to figure it all out.

If you say you're open to changing your evaluations why do you speak with such certainty? And who is this better GM you speak of? You just like to throw out all willy nilly that this one and that one need to be replaced...a child could do that to quote someone I know. Who are you replacing them with that you KNOW will be better? You should calm down and maybe take the negative glasses off and recognize the job that Poles has done here. A job that everyone but you and like 3 other yo yo's thinks has been relatively good and has set this franchise up for success in the future.

Certainty? Does “More data > better evaluation” sound like certainty to you? There are damn few things in this world that I am certain about. How certain are you in your opinions about Poles?

I believe Stevenson will need to be replaced. I am not certain about that. How certain are you that I am wrong? You see, this cuts both ways.

And nobody can know with certainty whether the Bears GM who follows Poles will be better or worse. But I do believe that some other GMs in rebuild mode since 2021 are doing a better job. But I will also say for the Nth time, I would be delighted to be proven wrong, if Bears are Super Bowl ready by 2025. That’s my yardstick on Poles.

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Last Edit: Dec 8, 2023 17:15:32 GMT -6 by davidl

davidl
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 21:31:43 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Dec 8, 2023 21:31:43 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 14:21:20 GMT -6 JABF said:

Dec 8, 2023 11:32:44 GMT -6 davidl said:

No. I am not projecting Brents as Pro Bowl at this point, although I think he has that potential. I would not have objected to Poles moving up a few spots in the second round to get him. It would all depend on the cost.

The only reason I mentioned him in this thread was to suggest it would be possible to draft a better CB than Stevenson in the second round 2024, if Poles trades Fields for a second round pick.

If Poles ends up with a 2nd round pick (however that happens) I hope he gets a C for the offensive line. No more deadbeat vets at that position. Draft a guy with the potential to be elite there for the next 10 or so years. A high second round pick may even get the BEST center in the entire 2024 draft class. Certainly it will get the next best if the top C goes in the first round. Get that guy who will anchor that entire IOL. Don't treat the position as an afterthought. Invest the resources into really fixing it.

If he doesn’t have a second round pick, are you committed to drafting a center in third round?

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davidl
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Poles track record... Dec 8, 2023 22:54:26 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Dec 8, 2023 22:54:26 GMT -6

Dec 8, 2023 5:32:33 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 7, 2023 22:32:18 GMT -6 davidl said:

Jalen Ramsey was injured, so he can’t possibly be a better player than Stevenson. That’s your logic.

I am not equating Ramsey to Brents in playing ability, but I have seen enough of Stevenson and Brents to reach a judgment about which I’d prefer on the Bears.

Screaming at me in CAPS doesn’t add anything. It’s stupid.

Caps add emphasis. If I can currently do something, and you currently cannot...in what pretend world you're imagining up can the person who currently can't do the thing be better than the person who CAN currently do the thing? When they are both currently able to do the thing, than yes, one can be better than the other. So yeah...Stevenson is a better player BECAUSE HE'S ACTUALLY PLAYING AT THE MOMENT. A guy sitting out because they're injured doesn't help the team.

And honestly...how much film on Brents are you breaking down to come to this conclusion. Give me specific things he's done better this year. SPECIFIC. Give me the games you've watched, with the All 22, so you can see him on every play and then cross referenced it to Stevenson in similar situations to create the scouting report thats lead to your conclusion. Then do the same with Stevenson. In short SHOW YOUR WORK!

Spoiler: I know you won't do this because your conclusions come from you reading a PFF score.

All CAPS is internet equivalent to yelling at people….
newrepublic.com/article/117390/netiquette-capitalization-how-caps-became-code-yelling

For emphasis, I prefer bold or underline if you are writing to me. Thank you.

Now, moving on. I finally understand what you are talking about. If Jalen Ramsey is injured and can’t run, the worst CB on the opponent’s practice squad can play better than him when Ramsey is injured. That is as trivially true as saying you to have to hit a QB to sack him, but irrelevant to the question of who is the better player when not injured. I didn’t realize that I need to say that I believe Brents is better than Stevenson when they are both not injured.

I do not have any all-22. You will have to find that yourself, if interested. There is a lot of YouTube on Brents, including this analysis of him by Chuck Pagano. Chuck was extremely impressed overall with him…

The first time I saw Brents was the TCU game. I actually watched it to see Johnston, because you were all hot for Johnston at the time. I thought, “Who is that corner covering Johnston?”

As far as his PFF grade, I didn’t even know what it was until we got into this discussion. I love this search engine on our site. On March 13, 2023, I had a post where I recommended that the Bears draft him in the second round. That was after watching the whole TCU game and some video of other games.

I don’t know where you and Ric get this idea that I base my evaluations on PFF. I watch the games and use PFF to validate that others besides me (who watch every snap of every game) have a similar opinion of the guy.

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Last Edit: Dec 8, 2023 23:31:44 GMT -6 by davidl

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