Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read.

JABF
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 11:16:53 GMT -6 riczaj01 and weneedmorelinemen like this

Post by JABF on May 10, 2023 11:16:53 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 10:41:25 GMT -6 paytonisgod said:

May 10, 2023 7:04:30 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

That's 2 spots. The rest of the draft was Def, the majority of the FA was def. The OL was terrible last year, and so far they replaced 2 spots. The WR's were terrible last year, so far they've replaced 1 spot. TE's were bad, they added a backup. RB wasn't an issue they added a ton to replace the one they let go.

3 years into Justin Fields and they still won't commit to building an Offense around him and allow it to be the focus of the team. It's back to def, and running. That's my point, and it's not hard to see if you look at the actions of the team.

Where are you getting your info from? Literally every metric and rating I've seen had the Bears as an average to good O line. This was even with some injuries. You can't just look at sack numbers. The QB and WRs have a lot to do with that number as well. Fields holding onto the ball too long is a well known thing. Whether that's on him or the WRs not getting open is up for debate, but that doesn't have anything to do with the OL.

Patrick was injured most of the year and we had to rely on Massy as C. Whitehair is taking that over and they added Davis in FA and Wright in the draft. The line wasn't that bad before and now looks to be even better. I'm not really worried about the OL this year.

If you truly believe we had an "average to good O line" last year, I just don't know what to tell you. The OL blew chunks with their feeble pass pro. Brax (whom I do like) was a rookie who got owned too often with bull rushes. Whitehair was a mere shadow of his better years, and graded out accordingly. Mustipher looked like a bug hitting a windshield getting driven back into the pocket and Field's lap. Jenkins' neck and back injuries hampered him... and our "right tackle by committee" thing was a big fail.

I got sick watching the turnstile boys on gamedays.

There WAS no pocket to step up into and I'm thankful Fields can run from incoming D guys - that was all that saved us... basically our QB was turned into a RB on way too many plays. Dude was running for his life.

Patrick showed nothing, even when he wasn't injured. His pass blocking grade for the season was (wait for it) a pitiful 30.8... with one game, against Washington he graded at a shockingly low 7.5. That is not a typo... he was epic fail last year... it helped the Bears when he got injured and couldn't "play" any more. He is a career backup (like he was at GB). Not much to see there. Sorry.

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Last Edit: May 10, 2023 11:30:06 GMT -6 by JABF

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davidl
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 11:28:56 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2023 11:28:56 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 9:47:26 GMT -6 JABF said:

May 10, 2023 9:15:00 GMT -6 davidl said:

Some people around here are still laughing at the Lions, but not me (i.e., my “Lions emerging” thread). I see them as the team to beat in the North.

The Seahawks did it, too. They fixed both right tackle and left tackle in the draft last year. Still need some work on the interior offensive line. Exactly same situation as the Bears.

Poles isn’t inventing anything new. Building in the trenches has been fundamental forever. It is not just the draft, though. Other teams (like Eagles) have done a lot in free agency. Poles could have, and should have, solved the right tackle problem in free agency and used the #9 pick on JSN (my preference) or a dominant pass rusher — which we still don’t have.

I don't think people are laughing about the Lions. They've sure beaten us plenty in recent years, and swept us last season - blew us out with 41 points in our last matchup. Certainly, I am not laughing about the matchups coming this year either. But I'm not laughing about Green Bay or the Vikings either. The parity in the league means there are no easy wins on gamedays... better bring your "A Game" or any team can beat you... the upsets last year were crazy for my Pick Em league.

I liked JSN a lot. But it would have been an over-draft at #9 or 10. There is a reason he was drafted at #20.

His value just isn't at the same tier as the #1 or #2 OT in the draft. Bears had Wright graded out as the best offensive lineman in the entire 2023 draft. We needed THAT guy more than a WR in a weak draft class for WRs. I "get it" that an offensive lineman isn't as sexy as drafting a WR. I get that. But we needed to take care of the linemen in this draft... and Poles spent 3 of their first 4 picks on the linemen. I like that. Build that foundation and be happy with a PROVEN 1st round WR in DJ Moore. For the Bears, veteran DJ Moore > rookie JSN. JSN hasn't proven anything yet, other than he's missed a lot of football due to injuries. Not saying he's made of glass. But he is far from proven at the NFL level. DJ Moore on the other hand is in his prime years and is proven. That was the guy we needed this year. It's looking like a better WR class in 2024... I'll bet we add a guy then.

There are no easy games, but I do believe Lions are going to be the greatest challenge.

As somebody said the other day, nobody game plans to deal with the opponents RT. I wanted RT in FA and then draft JSN. He is going to be an elite receiver in NFL and would have been top-10 without the injury. Schneider said he was amazed that he was able to get him at 20. Watch him this season. If we had JSN, we could spend top 2 picks in 2024 on defensive front-7 holes.

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JABF
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 11:32:08 GMT -6 riczaj01, butkus3595, and 1 more like this

Post by JABF on May 10, 2023 11:32:08 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 11:28:56 GMT -6 davidl said:

As somebody said the other day, nobody game plans to deal with the opponents RT.

Sorry. They DO if that guy is the doorway to the QB and a "Turnstile Boy" you bet your butt they do. We've seen it ALL too often here.

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davidl
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 12:41:24 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2023 12:41:24 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 11:32:08 GMT -6 JABF said:

May 10, 2023 11:28:56 GMT -6 davidl said:

As somebody said the other day, nobody game plans to deal with the opponents RT.

Sorry. They DO if that guy is the doorway to the QB and a "Turnstile Boy" you bet your butt they do. We've seen it ALL too often here.

No, you game plan to deal with JJ Watt or Donald. If there is a weak RT, you put your best pass rusher to run through the turnstile. You can call that a game plan, but nothing like a game-wrecking WR.

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riczaj01
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 13:40:55 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by riczaj01 on May 10, 2023 13:40:55 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 10:41:25 GMT -6 paytonisgod said:

May 10, 2023 7:04:30 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

That's 2 spots. The rest of the draft was Def, the majority of the FA was def. The OL was terrible last year, and so far they replaced 2 spots. The WR's were terrible last year, so far they've replaced 1 spot. TE's were bad, they added a backup. RB wasn't an issue they added a ton to replace the one they let go.

3 years into Justin Fields and they still won't commit to building an Offense around him and allow it to be the focus of the team. It's back to def, and running. That's my point, and it's not hard to see if you look at the actions of the team.

Where are you getting your info from? Literally every metric and rating I've seen had the Bears as an average to good O line. This was even with some injuries. You can't just look at sack numbers. The QB and WRs have a lot to do with that number as well. Fields holding onto the ball too long is a well known thing. Whether that's on him or the WRs not getting open is up for debate, but that doesn't have anything to do with the OL.

Patrick was injured most of the year and we had to rely on Massy as C. Whitehair is taking that over and they added Davis in FA and Wright in the draft. The line wasn't that bad before and now looks to be even better. I'm not really worried about the OL this year.

From watching Fields literally play like Romo did w/the Cowboys, who had an equally atrocious OL, but was also rated average to good b/c of Romo's scrambling ability.

The Bears OL was garbage last year. If the Bears were in a corner and had to do something, the other teams def was easily able to stop it; and that was b/c of the OL.

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JABF
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 15:12:09 GMT -6

Post by JABF on May 10, 2023 15:12:09 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 12:41:24 GMT -6 davidl said:

May 10, 2023 11:32:08 GMT -6 JABF said:

Sorry. They DO if that guy is the doorway to the QB and a "Turnstile Boy" you bet your butt they do. We've seen it ALL too often here.

No, you game plan to deal with JJ Watt or Donald. If there is a weak RT, you put your best pass rusher to run through the turnstile. You can call that a game plan, but nothing like a game-wrecking WR.

We will just have to "agree to disagree" on that one. I've seen far too many games (Bears games) wrecked by defenses being able to stop our offense cold - due to an OT failure. A pair of bookend lockdown tackles are priceless in value. Priceless. If your QB does not have the OL play to sustain a passing game then you don't even need WRs because they are useless. As useless as having fat beer vendors from Soldier Field trying run routes for Fields. We drafted (arguably) the #1 offensive lineman in the entire 2023 draft class. With the pair of OTs we now have in place with Brax and Wright, the tackles should pay dividends, supporting a passing game - for the next 8 to 10 years. Or more. How on earth would a rookie WR3 (maybe even WR4 his rookie season) guy like JSN compare to that in value to the team? There is a reason why he wasn't drafted in the top-10. He is good, but not THAT good.

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Last Edit: May 10, 2023 15:14:53 GMT -6 by JABF

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davidl
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 15:24:14 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by davidl on May 10, 2023 15:24:14 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 15:12:09 GMT -6 JABF said:

May 10, 2023 12:41:24 GMT -6 davidl said:

No, you game plan to deal with JJ Watt or Donald. If there is a weak RT, you put your best pass rusher to run through the turnstile. You can call that a game plan, but nothing like a game-wrecking WR.

We will just have to "agree to disagree" on that one. I've seen far too many games (Bears games) wrecked by defenses being able to stop our offense cold - due to an OT failure. A pair of bookend lockdown tackles are priceless in value. Priceless. If your QB does not have the OL play to sustain a passing game then you don't even need WRs because they are useless. As useless as having fat beer vendors from Soldier Field trying run routes for Fields. We drafted (arguably) the #1 offensive lineman in the entire 2023 draft class. With the pair of OTs we now have in place with Brax and Wright, the tackles should pay dividends, supporting a passing game - for the next 8 to 10 years. Or more. How on earth would a rookie WR3 (maybe even WR4 his rookie season) guy like JSN compare to that in value to the team? There is a reason why he wasn't drafted in the top-10. He is good, but not THAT good.

Okay, but it was never a choice between drafting JSN or doing NOTHING to upgrade RT. I wanted RT Taylor in FA or draft tackle in second round.

I guess we just need to wait and see how good JSN is.

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riczaj01
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 10, 2023 17:41:08 GMT -6 davidl likes this

Post by riczaj01 on May 10, 2023 17:41:08 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 15:24:14 GMT -6 davidl said:

May 10, 2023 15:12:09 GMT -6 JABF said:

We will just have to "agree to disagree" on that one. I've seen far too many games (Bears games) wrecked by defenses being able to stop our offense cold - due to an OT failure. A pair of bookend lockdown tackles are priceless in value. Priceless. If your QB does not have the OL play to sustain a passing game then you don't even need WRs because they are useless. As useless as having fat beer vendors from Soldier Field trying run routes for Fields. We drafted (arguably) the #1 offensive lineman in the entire 2023 draft class. With the pair of OTs we now have in place with Brax and Wright, the tackles should pay dividends, supporting a passing game - for the next 8 to 10 years. Or more. How on earth would a rookie WR3 (maybe even WR4 his rookie season) guy like JSN compare to that in value to the team? There is a reason why he wasn't drafted in the top-10. He is good, but not THAT good.

Okay, but it was never a choice between drafting JSN or doing NOTHING to upgrade RT. I wanted RT Taylor in FA or draft tackle in second round.

I guess we just need to wait and see how good JSN is.

OT and WR drop off is quick, but there tends to be more WR's then OT; just b/c of the position, each college team has a platoon of WR's, and probably have 3-4 OT's tops. The team could have got a WR in the 2nd and 3rd, instead of creating a plethora of DB's on the team that cannot possibly all make the roster still got the WR they had still had plenty of DT's and DB's, didn't need a LB to begin with, that was strictly a luxury pick and a giant FU to Fields; telling me no C or OG or WR could have been taken their? Not like you didn't have 2 young LB's play last year at a decent, even if not high quality level; and you spent a literal **** ton in FA to bring in 2 top end LB's to boot.

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mpbears68
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 13, 2023 22:47:47 GMT -6 AlexM, dachuckster, and 3 more like this

Post by mpbears68 on May 13, 2023 22:47:47 GMT -6

May 10, 2023 6:11:51 GMT -6 AlexM said:

May 10, 2023 5:32:02 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Bears have continued to ignore it, no matter the GM/HC. Kind of like the entire O.

Im still trying to get what u mean, and I really mean it!
But, I just cant bring myself to understand what u mean by ignoring it, when their biggest sign/trade was WR1 and 1st draft pick biggest OL need.

Me either. It may not work out but no question Bears have made a good faith effort to improve the O since the teardown. Doesn't mean there isn't more work to do but saying the O has been "ignored" just isn't accurate.

Here's what's been turned over in a year:
2 of the 3 top WR spots
3 of the 5 top OL spots
1 of the 2 top TE spots
2 of the 3 top RB spots

Moore was a 1st-round-equivalent acquisition. Claypool was too (#32 pick) but let's say a 2nd. Wright was a top-10 pick.

That's 2 1sts and a 2nd right there.

Fields has enough around him that there's no more excuses. Not asking for miracles here but he's gotta convincingly take that next step. He has enough. No more excuses. And saying "the Bears ignored the O" is an excuse.

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dachuckster
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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read. May 14, 2023 8:32:30 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on May 14, 2023 8:32:30 GMT -6

May 13, 2023 22:47:47 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

May 10, 2023 6:11:51 GMT -6 AlexM said:

Im still trying to get what u mean, and I really mean it!
But, I just cant bring myself to understand what u mean by ignoring it, when their biggest sign/trade was WR1 and 1st draft pick biggest OL need.

Me either. It may not work out but no question Bears have made a good faith effort to improve the O since the teardown. Doesn't mean there isn't more work to do but saying the O has been "ignored" just isn't accurate.

Here's what's been turned over in a year:
2 of the 3 top WR spots
3 of the 5 top OL spots
1 of the 2 top TE spots
2 of the 3 top RB spots

Moore was a 1st-round-equivalent acquisition. Claypool was too (#32 pick) but let's say a 2nd. Wright was a top-10 pick.

That's 2 1sts and a 2nd right there.

Fields has enough around him that there's no more excuses. Not asking for miracles here but he's gotta convincingly take that next step. He has enough. No more excuses. And saying "the Bears ignored the O" is an excuse.

I agree totally with that last sentence in your post. While I personally am pretty optimistic about Fields being able to progress in his development in 2023, a fan always needs to be critical and skeptical about these things.

It isn't reality until it actually happens.

I really agree with former NFL TE Clay Harbor's assessment on Fields in the following video. Especially what he says about Getsy. While it is impossible to talk about Fields' 2022 performance without including the total lack of offensive talent on the 2022 roster, IMO Getsy needs to take his lumps for trying to make the player (Fields) fit in to his system rather than adjust his system for what players he actually has on the roster. To give Getsy some credit, he did after a few games.

I really hope Harbor is correct in his assessment.

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Last Edit: May 14, 2023 8:32:58 GMT -6 by dachuckster

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Bears OL strategy? This is interesting to read.

Post by JABF on May 10, 2023 11:16:53 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2023 11:28:56 GMT -6

Post by JABF on May 10, 2023 11:32:08 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2023 12:41:24 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on May 10, 2023 13:40:55 GMT -6

Post by JABF on May 10, 2023 15:12:09 GMT -6

Post by davidl on May 10, 2023 15:24:14 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on May 10, 2023 17:41:08 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on May 13, 2023 22:47:47 GMT -6

Post by dachuckster on May 14, 2023 8:32:30 GMT -6