Who did you address this rebuttal to bb? You didn't quote anyone or identify who "you" is?
Not you, but in keeping with the spirit of the new board I'd rather just bow out of the thread. There is nothing gained by naming names and I actually shouldn't have posted what I did, it was very junivile.
Thanks for the comeback bb. I don't think there was anything wrong with what you posted I just wasn't sure who it was addressed to or what specific previous post it referred to. It certainly wasn't a matter for moderation. It was fine.
We can be frank and frustrated with one another, and many times we are, without stepping over any lines. We never meant for this place to ever have none of that just not the way the reptilian, lizard brained, ring leaders of that DBS troll force do things.
I just wanted to define the direction and respond if it was me who needed to do that. And you can still insult my ex's if you like. I have my days when I do too. LOL
So really , it's like playing cards . Having what you think is a " good hand " ( 1st rd pick ) you anti up and throw ur chips in . Many times you win but sometimes you lose . And that's what the draft is . You make educated guesses based on the " probabilities " , which are based on evaluations of abilities . Many times ur right and guys pan out , but sometimes they don't .
Still , I'd rather draft a QB based on a 1st rd evaluation , than taking a higher risk in a later round .
And I believe that if you expect to have at least a middle ground starter you do probably need to find him in round one or two at the latest. After that it's far more like rolling dice than playing a hand of cards well. One requires some skill while the other is almost all simply luck.
I understand why some here want a QB. They believe a QB will solve the problem the Bears have had over the years but that wouldn't be more wrong. Football starts at the lines. That is the foundation of all good teams. You don't have a good O-line your offense will show. You don't have a good Pass Rush your defense will get exposed. You're not going to win a Super Bowl with a lack luster O-line and D-line. You can however win a Super Bowl with a average QB with a great O-line and D-line.
Plus the fact we have John Fox as HC. Do you really want this dude to develop our QB?
Because what I wrote in another thread dovetails so well with Monsters post I'm just gonna repost it again here because I'm in full agreement. You have build from the inside out which means the OL and DL have to be sound first. QBs may entertain but games are won in the trenches just like Dallas did to us last game. So here's that repost.
If you use this link to Adam Jahns column on the right of the video screen you'll find a yellow slider that allows you to review past videos that were posted. Go back ten days and listen to the video titled "Is Chicago Bad for Cutler".
It's a typical discussion pitting a disbeliever against another who makes most of the same points I have for years, those being;
1) Cutler is not an elite QB but neither is he a bottom rung QB.
2) He and many other NFL QBs fit in that middle range of 12 to 15 below the maybe top 5 who are elite and above a dozen or so who are not NFL starting caliber passers or in other words the Hoyers, MCowns, Foles, etc.
3) Cutler cannot win all on his own. He requires support both from a standpoint of personnel/coaching, and scheme. When he has that he does fairly well and can win and when he lacks it he, like most others in the middle category, will lose as often as they win. Five years ago before the wheels fell off the defense and Emery and Trestman came along he was 27-13 as a Bears starter. He's 23-37 since. Have these been good teams he's played on and he's the only one whose been bad?
4) So what we have is a QB who aligns closely enough with others like; Eli Manning, Matthew Stafford, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith, Ryan Tannehill, Philip Rivers, Andrew Luck, Tony Romo, Derek Carr, Andy Dalton, etc. On the right team, under the right coach, and under the right circumstances with a healthy offense and a decent defense they can all win games and have proven it. Two have won SBs, Eli twice.
This is actually about the OL but since how well they perform has a direct impact on how their QBs perform it's at least somewhat germain. But I still don't want this to be about Cutler or any QB primarily. Only secondarily and only because of our other threads and debates about drafting a QB.
My point would be that no matter where you draft one, assuming it's relatively high, the chances we'd end up with another QB who again falls into this middle range are far greater than ending up with an elite QB like a Brady, Rodgers, Rothlisberger, Brees, or maybe a Wilson or Newton who are probably on the cusp as elite QBs.
Sometimes change is good for a QB. Alex Smith has succeeded more in KC than he did SF. A change may be good for Chicago and Cutler as well but there is also the chance the all we get is change not necessarily an improvement. That's something to consider in all of this when we do debate it.
So now I'll bring it back on topic.
IMHO we'd be far better off to approach this rebuilding process like Dallas and a few others have done by making the trenches as sound as we can. If we had an OL like Dallas then Cutler or any young QB we might draft will stand a much better chance of succeeding and winning then if we continue to field OL with as many holes in them as we've typically done.
Nowhere is teamwork and talent more vital than on the OL and yet we've treated it as an afterthought for many years until just recently. We need more Longs, Sitton, and Whitehairs more than we need to speculate on a Marcus Mariota or a Jamies Winston or a DeShone Kizer or Deshaun Watson. Build a great OL and a strong D and most any of those middle ranked QBs can win consistently.
Well that goes without saying if only because a top QB will play at the top of his game far longer that a top DE or OLB. The way some of these guys are getting injured today they may have as short a career at the top as some RBs. Watt is out for the rest of this year needing more back surgery. Maybe he came back too fast.
The fact that for a QB it is more mental and about gaining experience is just one more reason why some tend to get far better as time passes and if they don't get too beat up career ending injuries are less frequent. IMHO you can still win more easily with a dominant defense than you can with a dominant QB though.
I also agree that those top players like a Brady or a Dent or a Bennett and others who were drafted late or not at all are outliers and have to be discarded from any significant statistical analysis. The best will almost always be drafted early and by that I don't necessarily mean top five but many who've consistently been the best for the longest time were top five or top ten picks. One single year of stats won't tell the whole story either because some of these guy never had double digit sacks before and never will again and some will. Career stats are a better basis for an analysis.
Since Ric said he rather have the Manning than the Miller can you help me find this supposed Manning in this years draft?
Garrett is already consider the next Von Miller do to how well he's playing.
Kizer and Watson ain't close to that elite level like Luck.
If you really want to compare all of them these QBs are like the Winston and Mariota of 2015 draft and Garrett is VON MILLER...
My point is there IS no way to say who is going to be what in the NFL, the college game doesn't really translate like that. You cannot say that Garrett is going to be Von Miller, or that Luck is going to be the next Manning(which many people said and he's not). There is no way to predict that. NFL is bigger, stronger, faster and most players on college teams aren't capable of playing in the NFL; vast majority of NFL players are. What someone does in college against guys destined to be doing something else after college doesn't mean much. And what they do in the NFL could surprise a lot of people(hence why you have 2-4th and later round HoF'rs, and 1st round busts.
Post by germansbombedph on Oct 4, 2016 1:42:22 GMT -6
Why shouldn't a Franchise and Top3 QB make the Team better and lead us to a Super Bowl? We see what Hoyer can do with this shit, imagine a real QB that can throw and think. We'd be a PO Team with a Top5 QB with the Team we have.
Why shouldn't a Franchise and Top3 QB make the Team better and lead us to a Super Bowl? We see what Hoyer can do with this shit, imagine a real QB that can throw and think. We'd be a PO Team with a Top5 QB with the Team we have.
If you add a Top 3 Pass Rusher, we wouldn't.
Because this years QBs ain't nothing special to waste a top 10 pick on.
Post by germansbombedph on Oct 4, 2016 2:56:33 GMT -6
I hear this every year unless there is a Luck in the Draft. Yet there are new Starters and good QBs joining the league. Mariotta wasn't seen as a #2 Overall but so far he is doing good enough. We don't have a QB, we won't have the 1st Overall and we just drafted a Top10 Pass Rusher.
I hear this every year unless there is a Luck in the Draft. Yet there are new Starters and good QBs joining the league. Mariotta wasn't seen as a #2 Overall but so far he is doing good enough. We don't have a QB, we won't have the 1st Overall and we just drafted a Top10 Pass Rusher.
for us, it's a simple answer.
We drafted a project who has only played half his career as a pass rusher and the other half in coverage.
Garrett is the closes thing to a for sure pick. Do you pass that up on another project?
Why shouldn't a Franchise and Top3 QB make the Team better and lead us to a Super Bowl? We see what Hoyer can do with this shit, imagine a real QB that can throw and think. We'd be a PO Team with a Top5 QB with the Team we have.
If you add a Top 3 Pass Rusher, we wouldn't.
Because this years QBs ain't nothing special to waste a top 10 pick on.
This is said every year; hell it was said this year....reality is it's never pre determined. Wentz has been an absolute best player available pick, but wasn't seen as that, but he was. Winston/Marriota were both seen as high potential projects worth taking high, they've been far better then that.
And remember when Fowler and Beasley were must have's? What have they done? Top 10 pass rushers can bust out just as easily as any other position. Do I even need to bring up Clowney? Who just now seems like he might be coming into his own, 3 years later?