QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick?

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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 6:54:29 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 6:54:29 GMT -6

Sept 29, 2016 23:59:38 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

Sept 29, 2016 11:56:54 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

I'll give it a shot. Using 2000-2016 as my basis.

By QB record (which is a stat I hate but others seem to value for some reason) here are the QBs over .500

21 players drafted in picks 1-5

Eli Manning (99-87)
P.Rivers (93-70)
Palmer (84-78)
Ryan (76-53)
Smith (70-53-1)
Vick (61-51-1)
Newton (46-34)
~~Sanchez (37-35)~~
Luck (36-22)
V.Young (31-19)

So 9 out of 21 (I dropped Sanchez because....really?) 9/21=43%

Everyone else: 192 drafted with picks 6-end of draft

Brady 172-51
Wilson 47-19
Rogers 84-40
Roethlisberger 115-57
Dalton 51-28
Flacco 78-47
Bridgewater 17-11
Kaeperenick 27-20
Brees 124-95
Pennington 44-37
Foles 19-16
Grossman 25-22
Q.Carter 18-16
Garrard 39-37
Orton 42-40
Schaub 47-45

Thats all she wrote folks: 16/192=8%

Here are the guys that I didn't put in that due to small numbers of games started I didn't include: Sieman, Garoppolo, Brissett, Drew Henson, Stephen McGee, Brock Osweiler, Dennis Dixon, AJ McMarron, Dak Prescott, Craig Krenzel, Drew Stanton, Tim Tebow, TJ Yates

If you want you include them thats 29/162=18%

and 138 of them never even got a start as an NFL QB.

I'm willing to use whatever stat to want to re-run the numbers.

Thank you for this Research and write up

In other words, the higher you draft, the better Chance you get yourself a good one. This should be seen for all positions.

I'm on the Kaaya Train. Guy can make the throws and he Looks smart and calm on the field. I don't care about those flashy athletic Highlight QBs. I want Kaaya

Not necessarily. You have more players with poorer records in the second group and more QBs drafted after the top five period. IMHO I'd look at the W/L records of top five or top ten in each group and analyze that results both mathematically and statistically.

What are their total wins vs losses and their win percentage. What's the average number of wins, the median number, and the standard deviation for each group that way? Looking at or ranking based on total wins is deceptive. For instance.

In group one Eli has the most wins but both Luck and Young have a better winning percentage 62% than the rest and Young hasn't played since 2011. Palmer's winning % is 52% vs Cutler's at 50% but Palmer has been on playoff teams for several years whereas Cutler has been on losers. Prior to that Cutler would have looked better.

Brady's winning % is the highest of all (77%) and he was a 6th round pick. Wilson is next at 71% and he was a 3rd round pick followed by Rodgers (24th pick) and Big Ben (11th pick) at 67%. From this viewpoint QBs not taken in the top 5 are better based on winning % and this is even close to a thorough analysis.

I don't mean to discredit what bb did only say that this way of looking at doesn't tell us any more than we already know which is the chances of finding a more talented QB are better the higher you draft but exactly where to draft them it does not predict. You'd have to go far deeper into it and that still wouldn't tell you all you might want to know.

Like Eli has won only 53% of his starts but he's won two SB vs Cutler whose won 50% of his starts but no SB. What conclusion can you draw from that? Is Eli that much better or is it that he played on two very very good teams Cutler has not played on and if they switched teams what then? Eli forced a trade for Rivers when he was drafted by SD. Rivers has the better winning % but Eli won two SBs.

Everything is clearer in hindsight and I haven't analyzed the top ten from each group like I indicated above but at a glance to the top QBs from group II have a better winning % than those in group I so based on that it would tell you NOT to take one in the top five.

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Last Edit: Sept 30, 2016 7:11:14 GMT -6 by Deleted

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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 7:09:35 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 7:09:35 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 6:14:47 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Go here and look at the list of players drafted since 1979 in terms of sack totals.

How many in the top 10 drafted in the firt round? 5
How many in the t0p 20 drafted in the first round? 11

I can make the same argument aginst taking a pass rusher.

2nd all time? Kevin Greene-- 6th round
4th all time? Strahan-- 2nd round
5th Jason Taylor--3rd round.
6th Dent --who I see you left off your list--8th round so an UDFA in todays terms.

Again, this isn't the argument. Great players come from all over the draft. The better players across the board get drafted early. If you a great WR draft one early, great DE draft one early, great QB draft one early. I don't want Pace going into the draft room thinking that any position can always be filled later because of Brady or Warner, or because of Dent and Taylor. I want Pace thinking--who is the best player in the draft and how can I get him.

Which is precisely what he's said his theory is but what's been his practice?

Another part of this equation is what constitutes "the best" based on how he or any other GM ranks or rates? Are you looking at high ceiling but maybe low floor? Or lower ceiling but very high floor? How pro ready is "your guy" vs another who isn't as pro ready but is perceived to have very high upside like KW if you can ever drill a full NFL route tree into his head and get him to execute it correctly AND catch the ball.

Can Leonard Floyd, despite his speed off the edge and athletic ability, ever be the player you drafted him to be weighing 240lbs or less? Jarron Gilbert could jump out of swimming pools like few could ever do but he couldn't play football in the NFL. The list of other terrific monster OLBs who are similar in size to Floyd who have also failed is scary.

I agree team will get more impact players from those drafted earlier than later but it still gonna be dependent on the specific player and to a great extent the coaching and development he gets.

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brasilbear
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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 7:52:14 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Sept 30, 2016 7:52:14 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 7:09:35 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Sept 30, 2016 6:14:47 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Go here and look at the list of players drafted since 1979 in terms of sack totals.

How many in the top 10 drafted in the firt round? 5
How many in the t0p 20 drafted in the first round? 11

I can make the same argument aginst taking a pass rusher.

2nd all time? Kevin Greene-- 6th round
4th all time? Strahan-- 2nd round
5th Jason Taylor--3rd round.
6th Dent --who I see you left off your list--8th round so an UDFA in todays terms.

Again, this isn't the argument. Great players come from all over the draft. The better players across the board get drafted early. If you a great WR draft one early, great DE draft one early, great QB draft one early. I don't want Pace going into the draft room thinking that any position can always be filled later because of Brady or Warner, or because of Dent and Taylor. I want Pace thinking--who is the best player in the draft and how can I get him.

Which is precisely what he's said his theory is but what's been his practice?

Another part of this equation is what constitutes "the best" based on how he or any other GM ranks or rates? Are you looking at high ceiling but maybe low floor? Or lower ceiling but very high floor? How pro ready is "your guy" vs another who isn't as pro ready but is perceived to have very high upside like KW if you can ever drill a full NFL route tree into his head and get him to execute it correctly AND catch the ball.

Can Leonard Floyd, despite his speed off the edge and athletic ability, ever be the player you drafted him to be weighing 240lbs or less? Jarron Gilbert could jump out of swimming pools like few could ever do but he couldn't play football in the NFL. The list of other terrific monster OLBs who are similar in size to Floyd who have also failed is scary.

I agree team will get more impact players from those drafted earlier than later but it still gonna be dependent on the specific player and to a great extent the coaching and development he gets.

It still comes down to getting that QB. Elite passer, steady game manager, 1st rounder, UDFA, FA, stolen-off-practice-squad....doesn't matter, get one that will start long term. If you constantly are looking for a QB, trying new ones, switching every two seasons to a new one---this doesn't create stability, leads to coaches getting fired and turnover at OC. It also means you lose draft picks and cap space always looking for that QB.

The Bears had this and they blew it in the draft. No matter what you think about Cutler, not having to draft a qb should have meant being able to use picks on other positions, keep the team re-stocked. Look at NW. They draft G and C in the first round, because having Brady lets them. But they (Angelo-Emery) couldn't do it. Now Pace finds himself in a position of having to look for a QB. May God have mercy on his soul.

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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 7:59:45 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by brasilbear on Sept 30, 2016 7:59:45 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 6:54:29 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Sept 29, 2016 23:59:38 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

Thank you for this Research and write up

In other words, the higher you draft, the better Chance you get yourself a good one. This should be seen for all positions.

I'm on the Kaaya Train. Guy can make the throws and he Looks smart and calm on the field. I don't care about those flashy athletic Highlight QBs. I want Kaaya

Not necessarily. You have more players with poorer records in the second group and more QBs drafted after the top five period. IMHO I'd look at the W/L records of top five or top ten in each group and analyze that results both mathematically and statistically.

What are their total wins vs losses and their win percentage. What's the average number of wins, the median number, and the standard deviation for each group that way? Looking at or ranking based on total wins is deceptive. For instance.

In group one Eli has the most wins but both Luck and Young have a better winning percentage 62% than the rest and Young hasn't played since 2011. Palmer's winning % is 52% vs Cutler's at 50% but Palmer has been on playoff teams for several years whereas Cutler has been on losers. Prior to that Cutler would have looked better.

Brady's winning % is the highest of all (77%) and he was a 6th round pick. Wilson is next at 71% and he was a 3rd round pick followed by Rodgers (24th pick) and Big Ben (11th pick) at 67%. From this viewpoint QBs not taken in the top 5 are better based on winning % and this is even close to a thorough analysis.

I don't mean to discredit what bb did only say that this way of looking at doesn't tell us any more than we already know which is the chances of finding a more talented QB are better the higher you draft but exactly where to draft them it does not predict. You'd have to go far deeper into it and that still wouldn't tell you all you might want to know.

Like Eli has won only 53% of his starts but he's won two SB vs Cutler whose won 50% of his starts but no SB. What conclusion can you draw from that? Is Eli that much better or is it that he played on two very very good teams Cutler has not played on and if they switched teams what then? Eli forced a trade for Rivers when he was drafted by SD. Rivers has the better winning % but Eli won two SBs.

Everything is clearer in hindsight and I haven't analyzed the top ten from each group like I indicated above but at a glance to the top QBs from group II have a better winning % than those in group I so based on that it would tell you NOT to take one in the top five.

But thats exactly my point, you don't cherry pick so volumne can't be discounted. Again, I'm not arguing that players drafted later can't be better than players drafted early. I'm more interested in the odds of finding that guy. Now past odds don't mean anything, ie its not predictive. But it does shed some light. You pick the top 5 QBs taken after round 1 and compare them to the top 5 QBs taken in round one and say--see later QBs are just as good. Not arguing that. But, your odds of finding that later round QB, historicially, are much worse than if you pick him early.

The argument that you should draft a QB late because Brady ignores all the other sixth round QBs. Saying sign a UDFA because Warner ignores all the other UDFA Qbs. I could say draft your pass rusher in the 8th because Dent, or in the 2nd because Kevin Greene. Who is the better player? Pick that guy.

What I am not saying is always draft a QB early. If an elite pass rusher is there, and you think he's better than the QBs, take the pass rusher because he's better. Don't take the pass rusher because Brady was a 6th round draft pick.

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Last Edit: Sept 30, 2016 8:15:21 GMT -6 by brasilbear

hawkeye21
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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 8:01:42 GMT -6 riczaj01 and brasilbear like this

Post by hawkeye21 on Sept 30, 2016 8:01:42 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 3:44:34 GMT -6 motm said:

Sept 30, 2016 2:32:56 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

you have an easier time to find a pass rusher than a QB.

Houston took the sure thing Clowney and look how for it has taken them. They could have had a starting QB added to Watt and Mercilus. They'd be much better. Same can be said for the Bears. You have Guards and Young WRs, you have Young RBs and your offense will be ready to add a QB for the future. I don't think Kaaya or Watson Needs to sit a year.

If we want a pass rusher, we can add one in round 2

Really?

How many Von Miller type Pass Rushers are in this years FA? Its very hard to find true difference maker pass rushers unless their contract expired, team can't afford them, or a HUGE injury concern ( Look at Mcphee )

Clowney isn't bad but he can't stay healthy but he is still a better option than Blake Bortles. Clowney may have a breakout season as well this year.

Lets just look at history of the greatest players to play plus present day:

List will be from 79 and after...

OLB:

Lawrence Taylor: Round 1 Pick 2
Von Miller: Round 1 Pick 2
DeMarcus Ware: Round 1 Pick 11
Khalil Mack: Round 1 Pick 5
Derrick Thomas: Round 1 Pick 4

DE:
Reggie White: Round 1 Pick 4
JJ Watt: Round 1 Pick 11
Julius Peppers: Round 1 Pick 2
Bruce Smith: Round 1 Pick 1

QBs:
Tom Brady: Round 6 Pick 199
Joe Montana: Round 3 Pick 82
Peyton Manning: Round 1 Pick 1
Brett Farve: Round 2 Pick 33
Aaron Rodgers: Round 1 Pick 24

Strange how the best Pass Rushers in NFL history were pick in the 1st while the best QBs in history weren't.

In my opinion having a great pass rusher is all about athleticism while having a great QB is all about having great mental strength.

I still like to know what's so great about this years QBs?

You seem to have specifically picked players that fit your argument. You need to show every good player over a certain amount of time in order to make an accurate assessment.

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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 8:06:48 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 8:06:48 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 7:52:14 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 30, 2016 7:09:35 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Which is precisely what he's said his theory is but what's been his practice?

Another part of this equation is what constitutes "the best" based on how he or any other GM ranks or rates? Are you looking at high ceiling but maybe low floor? Or lower ceiling but very high floor? How pro ready is "your guy" vs another who isn't as pro ready but is perceived to have very high upside like KW if you can ever drill a full NFL route tree into his head and get him to execute it correctly AND catch the ball.

Can Leonard Floyd, despite his speed off the edge and athletic ability, ever be the player you drafted him to be weighing 240lbs or less? Jarron Gilbert could jump out of swimming pools like few could ever do but he couldn't play football in the NFL. The list of other terrific monster OLBs who are similar in size to Floyd who have also failed is scary.

I agree team will get more impact players from those drafted earlier than later but it still gonna be dependent on the specific player and to a great extent the coaching and development he gets.

It still comes down to getting that QB. Elite passer, steady game manager, 1st rounder, UDFA, FA, stolen-off-practice-squad....doesn't matter, get one that will start long term. If you constantly are looking for a QB, trying new ones, switching every two seasons to a new one---this doesn't create stability, leads to coaches getting fired and turnover at OC. It also means you lose draft picks and cap space always looking for that QB.

The Bears had this and they blew it in the draft. No matter what you think about Cutler, not having to draft a qb should have meant being able to use picks on other positions, keep the team re-stocked. Look at NW. They draft G and C in the first round, because having Brady lets them. But they (Angelo-Emery) couldn't do it. Now Pace finds himself in a position of having to look for a QB. May God have mercy on his soul.

I think they blew it as well but in not taking that young passer to develop it puts even more pressure on the other picks at key positions to succeed and above all those are your pass rushers, WRs, and OTs. So far we've failed to nail those positions down completely which is why there's even a need to ask the question this thread does.

I believe that even in the pursuit of those BPA guys there is still a proper sequence to be followed in building a winning roster. Those who follow it and succeed usually win and those who don't become long term bottom feeders as we have become in the past 5 years. Things have to change and soon.

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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 8:27:00 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 8:27:00 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 7:59:45 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 30, 2016 6:54:29 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Not necessarily. You have more players with poorer records in the second group and more QBs drafted after the top five period. IMHO I'd look at the W/L records of top five or top ten in each group and analyze that results both mathematically and statistically.

What are their total wins vs losses and their win percentage. What's the average number of wins, the median number, and the standard deviation for each group that way? Looking at or ranking based on total wins is deceptive. For instance.

In group one Eli has the most wins but both Luck and Young have a better winning percentage 62% than the rest and Young hasn't played since 2011. Palmer's winning % is 52% vs Cutler's at 50% but Palmer has been on playoff teams for several years whereas Cutler has been on losers. Prior to that Cutler would have looked better.

Brady's winning % is the highest of all (77%) and he was a 6th round pick. Wilson is next at 71% and he was a 3rd round pick followed by Rodgers (24th pick) and Big Ben (11th pick) at 67%. From this viewpoint QBs not taken in the top 5 are better based on winning % and this is even close to a thorough analysis.

I don't mean to discredit what bb did only say that this way of looking at doesn't tell us any more than we already know which is the chances of finding a more talented QB are better the higher you draft but exactly where to draft them it does not predict. You'd have to go far deeper into it and that still wouldn't tell you all you might want to know.

Like Eli has won only 53% of his starts but he's won two SB vs Cutler whose won 50% of his starts but no SB. What conclusion can you draw from that? Is Eli that much better or is it that he played on two very very good teams Cutler has not played on and if they switched teams what then? Eli forced a trade for Rivers when he was drafted by SD. Rivers has the better winning % but Eli won two SBs.

Everything is clearer in hindsight and I haven't analyzed the top ten from each group like I indicated above but at a glance to the top QBs from group II have a better winning % than those in group I so based on that it would tell you NOT to take one in the top five.

But thats exactly my point. SO it can't be discounted. Again, I'm not arguing that players drafted later can't be better than players drafted early. I'm more interested in the odds of finding that guy. Now past odds don't mean anything, ie its not predictive. But it does shed some light. You pick the top 5 QBs taken after round 1 and compare them to the top 5 QBs taken in round one and say--see later QBs are just as good. Not arguing that. But, your odds of finding that later round QB, historicially, are much worse than if you pick him early.

The argument that you should draft a QB late because Brady ignores all the other sixth round QBs. Saying sign a UDFA because Warner ignores all the other UDFA Qbs. I could say draft your pass rusher in the 8th because Dent, or in the 2nd because Kevin Greene. Who is the better player? Pick that guy.

What I am not saying is always draft a QB early. If an elite pass rusher is there, and you think he's better than the QBs, take the pass rusher because he's better. Don't take the pass rusher because Brady was a 6th round draft pick.

My position is simply this. Even if we take out an outlier like Brady there is not a significant enough difference in top 5 drafted passer vs any other highly drafted passer to say you have to draft one that early to have better odds. If anything looking only at their winning percentages is would say the opposite was true.

This is just my counter argument to those who say we should ever tank a season or hope we do just so we can draft a QB that high to replace Cutler. That's foolish. If we had Dallas' #4 overall pick in April I would have taken Elliott over either Goff or Wentz on the basis of he could play for me at a top level now and I needed him more than a QB to develop.

What I would not have done is to spend later mid round picks adding depth to a defense that performed fairly well last year when I had already spent significantly in FA resolving my biggest issues with starters at ILB and DE and gotten my other penetrating type DE in the 3rd round. There is no way in hell all three of our 4th round picks should have been ranked higher than a mobile young passer like Prescott.

Do you think there's any chance Fox eschewed him because he's black? Was there a racial bias because to the best of my knowledge he's never had a black QB?

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Last Edit: Sept 30, 2016 8:29:29 GMT -6 by Deleted

brasilbear
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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 8:30:40 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Sept 30, 2016 8:30:40 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 8:27:00 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Sept 30, 2016 7:59:45 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

But thats exactly my point. SO it can't be discounted. Again, I'm not arguing that players drafted later can't be better than players drafted early. I'm more interested in the odds of finding that guy. Now past odds don't mean anything, ie its not predictive. But it does shed some light. You pick the top 5 QBs taken after round 1 and compare them to the top 5 QBs taken in round one and say--see later QBs are just as good. Not arguing that. But, your odds of finding that later round QB, historicially, are much worse than if you pick him early.

The argument that you should draft a QB late because Brady ignores all the other sixth round QBs. Saying sign a UDFA because Warner ignores all the other UDFA Qbs. I could say draft your pass rusher in the 8th because Dent, or in the 2nd because Kevin Greene. Who is the better player? Pick that guy.

What I am not saying is always draft a QB early. If an elite pass rusher is there, and you think he's better than the QBs, take the pass rusher because he's better. Don't take the pass rusher because Brady was a 6th round draft pick.

My position is simply this. Even if we take out an outlier like Brady there is not a significant enough difference in top 5 drafted passer vs as other highly drafted passer to say you have to draft one that early to have better odds. If anything looking only at their winning percentages is would say the opposite was true.

This is just my counter argument to those who say we should ever tank a season or hope we do just so we can draft a QB that high to replace Cutler. That's foolish. If we had Dallas' #4 overall pick in April I would have taken Elliott over either Goff or Wentz on the basis of he could play for me at a top level now and I needed him more than a QB to develop.

What I would not have done it to spend later mid round picks adding depth to a defense that performed fairly well last year when I had already spent significantly in FA resolving my biggest issues with starters at ILB and DE and gotten my other penetrating type DE in the 3rd round. There is no way in hell all three of our 4th round picks should have been ranked higher than a mobile young passer like Prescott.

Do you think there's any chance Fox eschewed him because he's black? Was there a racial bias because to the best of my knowledge he's never had a black QB?

I can be ok with that, with the added comment (which I know you don't like) that you are more likely to find that player earlier in the draft than later. BUT other wise we are in agreement.

Should we close this the dabears way--I insult your mother, you insult my wife, I post a meme, you post a meme, I get mad and report you to a mod who does nothing, you make fun of my wife again, I get mad and offer to fight you on some street corner.....

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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 9:03:25 GMT -6 AlexM likes this

Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 9:03:25 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 8:30:40 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Sept 30, 2016 8:27:00 GMT -6 @soulman said:

My position is simply this. Even if we take out an outlier like Brady there is not a significant enough difference in top 5 drafted passer vs as other highly drafted passer to say you have to draft one that early to have better odds. If anything looking only at their winning percentages is would say the opposite was true.

This is just my counter argument to those who say we should ever tank a season or hope we do just so we can draft a QB that high to replace Cutler. That's foolish. If we had Dallas' #4 overall pick in April I would have taken Elliott over either Goff or Wentz on the basis of he could play for me at a top level now and I needed him more than a QB to develop.

What I would not have done it to spend later mid round picks adding depth to a defense that performed fairly well last year when I had already spent significantly in FA resolving my biggest issues with starters at ILB and DE and gotten my other penetrating type DE in the 3rd round. There is no way in hell all three of our 4th round picks should have been ranked higher than a mobile young passer like Prescott.

Do you think there's any chance Fox eschewed him because he's black? Was there a racial bias because to the best of my knowledge he's never had a black QB?

I can be ok with that, with the added comment (which I know you don't like) that you are more likely to find that player earlier in the draft than later. BUT other wise we are in agreement.

Should we close this the dabears way--I insult your mother, you insult my wife, I post a meme, you post a meme, I get mad and report you to a mod who does nothing, you make fun of my wife again, I get mad and offer to fight you on some street corner.....

No, I don't disagree with that. I was probably looking more at this specific draft when I wrote that. I liked Wentz a lot because that Nodak St. program is a good one and because of what I perceived was more maturity and his arm. But I still would have taken Elliott myself because we do well with RBs vs QBs. It's too bad a QB didn't fall because I think Dallas may have taken him instead of Elliot but 'dems da breaks.

After Wentz I think Prescott was the best fit for us. I didn't like any of the other 1st rounders and I hated Cook and Hackenburg. Brissett went in the 3rd after we took Bullard and that was a smart pick. Prescott fell into our laps and for reasons I do not know we blinked and passed but to date he would have struggled far more here than he has in Dallas.

Back in 2014 I'd have loved to have gotten Garopollo but Emery takes Ego and he's a total bust. IMHO these are all reasons why we are where we are on the QB front. At times we just seem to be struck stupid on draft weekend.

I don't want insult anyone but your welcome to take a shot at a couple of my ex's if you like. They've earned it. LOL

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Last Edit: Sept 30, 2016 9:05:26 GMT -6 by Deleted

motm
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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick? Sept 30, 2016 12:43:31 GMT -6

Post by motm on Sept 30, 2016 12:43:31 GMT -6

Sept 30, 2016 8:01:42 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

Sept 30, 2016 3:44:34 GMT -6 motm said:

Really?

How many Von Miller type Pass Rushers are in this years FA? Its very hard to find true difference maker pass rushers unless their contract expired, team can't afford them, or a HUGE injury concern ( Look at Mcphee )

Clowney isn't bad but he can't stay healthy but he is still a better option than Blake Bortles. Clowney may have a breakout season as well this year.

Lets just look at history of the greatest players to play plus present day:

List will be from 79 and after...

OLB:

Lawrence Taylor: Round 1 Pick 2
Von Miller: Round 1 Pick 2
DeMarcus Ware: Round 1 Pick 11
Khalil Mack: Round 1 Pick 5
Derrick Thomas: Round 1 Pick 4

DE:
Reggie White: Round 1 Pick 4
JJ Watt: Round 1 Pick 11
Julius Peppers: Round 1 Pick 2
Bruce Smith: Round 1 Pick 1

QBs:
Tom Brady: Round 6 Pick 199
Joe Montana: Round 3 Pick 82
Peyton Manning: Round 1 Pick 1
Brett Farve: Round 2 Pick 33
Aaron Rodgers: Round 1 Pick 24

Strange how the best Pass Rushers in NFL history were pick in the 1st while the best QBs in history weren't.

In my opinion having a great pass rusher is all about athleticism while having a great QB is all about having great mental strength.

I still like to know what's so great about this years QBs?

You seem to have specifically picked players that fit your argument. You need to show every good player over a certain amount of time in order to make an accurate assessment.

How so? I picked players who are consider the best to play that position.

Sorry but there wasn't any 2nd round+ for a great pass rusher...

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QB or Pass Rusher for our 1st round pick?

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