Yes and as a run blocker he grades out pretty well shorty. It's his pass blocking that's an issue. Obviously AZ didn't think enough of him to keep him and sought an upgrade. Massie may be an upgrade over Mills or a few others we've tried as a run blocker but so far I'm not seeing him any better as a pass blocker and a RT needs that skill now as well.
He's not the worst RT in the NFL by a long shot but if you're gonna spend money to upgrade I think we may have done better. In this case we may have gotten "took".
In all fairness, the Cardinals used a 1st round pick in 2015 on a RT (Humphries) so had no need to keep Massie who was/became a FA. He wasn't just "cut".
Yes and as a run blocker he grades out pretty well shorty. It's his pass blocking that's an issue. Obviously AZ didn't think enough of him to keep him and sought an upgrade. Massie may be an upgrade over Mills or a few others we've tried as a run blocker but so far I'm not seeing him any better as a pass blocker and a RT needs that skill now as well.
He's not the worst RT in the NFL by a long shot but if you're gonna spend money to upgrade I think we may have done better. In this case we may have gotten "took".
In all fairness, the Cardinals used a 1st round pick in 2015 on a RT (Humphries) so had no need to keep Massie who was/became a FA. He wasn't just "cut".
No I didn't mean cut. I'd said earlier they didn't choose to re-sign him so they must have liked Humphries better which makes sense. GMs look bad when their top draft picks don't play by year two. I think we may be finding that out now huh? LOL
Maybe we'll know more after the first 4 games are complete. I hope he can be okay for this year. I watched the video and that made him look better than I first thought. Not great, but not as bad.
I think Massie was a stopgap signing that allowed Long to get back to RG, that's all. I would expect Pace to look for a future upgrade in next years draft but we are stuck with him for now so have to make the best of it.
+1 That's definitely how I see it too. And maybe he isn't as bad as I first reacted to, after the game last Sunday. I may have been over the top critical.
I think Massie was a stopgap signing that allowed Long to get back to RG, that's all. I would expect Pace to look for a future upgrade in next years draft but we are stuck with him for now so have to make the best of it.
+1 That's definitely how I see it too. And maybe he isn't as bad as I first reacted to, after the game last Sunday. I may have been over the top critical.
When only one other OT allowed more QB pressure than he did on Sunday I'm not sure that's over the top at all. Houston is not the only team with very good pass rushers we'll face. Minny and Detroit have them as well so that's four more games we'll face teams who like to nail the QB and those four are NFNC games so they count even more.
The guy has to improve his pass blocking or we need to give him help. That's all there is to it.
I think Massie was a stopgap signing that allowed Long to get back to RG, that's all. I would expect Pace to look for a future upgrade in next years draft but we are stuck with him for now so have to make the best of it.
+1 That's definitely how I see it too. And maybe he isn't as bad as I first reacted to, after the game last Sunday. I may have been over the top critical.
+1 That's definitely how I see it too. And maybe he isn't as bad as I first reacted to, after the game last Sunday. I may have been over the top critical.
When only one other OT allowed more QB pressure than he did on Sunday I'm not sure that's over the top at all. Houston is not the only team with very good pass rushers we'll face. Minny and Detroit have them as well so that's four more games we'll face teams who like to nail the QB and those four are NFNC games so they count even more.
The guy has to improve his pass blocking or we need to give him help. That's all there is to it.
+1 And one thing I fear. Jay Cutler is no spring chicken anymore. Hits he shook off as a young player, may start taking some serious mileage off of him moving forward as our QB. He turns 34 in the spring. That doesn't mean his career is over, but it does mean his body (with a long career of physical abuse behind crap Bears OL's) is probably getting high mileage now.
.......Are you surprised Cutler got hit? Especially with his penchant to hold onto the ball too long? I'm not... so I guess thats where I'm coming from.
Check the game clock on each sack or do it yourself with a stop watch, but the only sack Cutler held the ball for more than 3 seconds was the one where he rolled out of bounds. On every other sack he was scrambling or on the ground within 3 seconds. (Check times here for you yourself) On the first sack he hits the back on his drop and Messie man hits him. 3 seconds On the second sack he rolls out of bounds. So thats a '7 second' sack. On the third sack you could argue he 'held' the ball too long. But he still was down within 3 seconds On the fourth sack Watt beats Massie around the edge right when Cutler hits the back of his drop and he steps up, right into the un=picked up stunter. Again, on the ground in 3 seconds. On the fifth sack Leno lets his man through, Cutler hits the back of his drop and has to take off running. He can't step up due to pressure and when Langford can't finish his blitz pickup, Cutler is down. Its longer than 3 seconds only because at 2 seconds Cutler is already fleeing for his life.
I don't know where the narrative comes from of Cutler hanging onto the ball for too long. Its not true, yet posters keep posting that in trying to defend an OL that got overwhelmed by a talented front 7. There are going to be teams that give up more than 5 sacks to the Texans, disappointing yes but not unexpected. They are that good.
.......Are you surprised Cutler got hit? Especially with his penchant to hold onto the ball too long? I'm not... so I guess thats where I'm coming from.
Check the game clock on each sack or do it yourself with a stop watch, but the only sack Cutler held the ball for more than 3 seconds was the one where he rolled out of bounds. On every other sack he was scrambling or on the ground within 3 seconds. (Check times here for you yourself) On the first sack he hits the back on his drop and Messie man hits him. 3 seconds On the second sack he rolls out of bounds. So thats a '7 second' sack. On the third sack you could argue he 'held' the ball too long. But he still was down within 3 seconds On the fourth sack Watt beats Massie around the edge right when Cutler hits the back of his drop and he steps up, right into the un=picked up stunter. Again, on the ground in 3 seconds. On the fifth sack Leno lets his man through, Cutler hits the back of his drop and has to take off running. He can't step up due to pressure and when Langford can't finish his blitz pickup, Cutler is down. Its longer than 3 seconds only because at 2 seconds Cutler is already fleeing for his life.
I don't know where the narrative comes from of Cutler hanging onto the ball for too long. Its not true, yet posters keep posting that in trying to defend an OL that got overwhelmed by a talented front 7. There are going to be teams that give up more than 5 sacks to the Texans, disappointing yes but not unexpected. They are that good.
It's a very old excuse left over from the Martz era when he was making 7 step drops and getting hammered because Devin Hester was his #1 WR and he couldn't remember how to run routes correctly either. It's still in use by those who'll find some reason to blame Cutler no matter what.
I think we must have the only fan base who does that with regularity.
What I fail to understand is how when we play a zone coverage receivers are always able to find the void areas in our coverage, get open, and any decent QB torches us. But when we're up against a zone coverage you'd think some of our guys look like they're running their routes with a white cane and a tin cup.
.......Are you surprised Cutler got hit? Especially with his penchant to hold onto the ball too long? I'm not... so I guess thats where I'm coming from.
Check the game clock on each sack or do it yourself with a stop watch, but the only sack Cutler held the ball for more than 3 seconds was the one where he rolled out of bounds. On every other sack he was scrambling or on the ground within 3 seconds. (Check times here for you yourself) On the first sack he hits the back on his drop and Messie man hits him. 3 seconds On the second sack he rolls out of bounds. So thats a '7 second' sack. On the third sack you could argue he 'held' the ball too long. But he still was down within 3 seconds On the fourth sack Watt beats Massie around the edge right when Cutler hits the back of his drop and he steps up, right into the un=picked up stunter. Again, on the ground in 3 seconds. On the fifth sack Leno lets his man through, Cutler hits the back of his drop and has to take off running. He can't step up due to pressure and when Langford can't finish his blitz pickup, Cutler is down. Its longer than 3 seconds only because at 2 seconds Cutler is already fleeing for his life.
I don't know where the narrative comes from of Cutler hanging onto the ball for too long. Its not true, yet posters keep posting that in trying to defend an OL that got overwhelmed by a talented front 7. There are going to be teams that give up more than 5 sacks to the Texans, disappointing yes but not unexpected. They are that good.
That's a great article you posted brasilbear. I thought about making some gifs of the sacks but decided against it. I'm happy someone else did. I was making this point in a different thread - I think the deflated football thread - and ric kept talking about how Cutler needs to get the ball out quicker. I'm a Cutler fan but not an apologist and I didn't see it like that at all. I thought Cutler had a good game considering he was pressure 54% of his snaps.
Back on topic: Bobbie Massie. I was reading Biggs' Mailbox this afternoon and he addressed the Massie situation:
The play that really stood out for Massie came in the second quarter when Whitney Mercilus sped around the corner and sacked Jay Cutler for a 7-yard loss on third-and-2. Massie looked like he was standing still when Mercilus motored past him for an unimpeded run at Cutler. The thing is, I don’t believe this was Massie’s fault. When the Bears are in the shotgun formation and are using a silent count, there is a process that has to be followed. Left guard Josh Sitton taps center Cody Whitehair when Cutler is ready to receive the ball and then Whitehair is supposed to drop his head to alert the offensive tackles he’s ready to snap the ball. In this instance, Sitton tapped Whitehair and the rookie center snapped the ball immediately without dropping his head. So, Mercilus sees the ball snapped and Massie wasn’t expecting it. Any offensive tackle is going to have a problem with that. That’s a mechanism in the process that the Bears can clean up rather easily. We know it’s going to take some time to iron out issues on the offensive line. They’re going to need to work together for some time.
When you go back and look at the tape, I think ONE THAT ONE PLAY, Biggs is onto something, but what about the other pressures Massie's allowing? Dude is known as a stone footed tackle so when his stone footed play appears on gameday people are going to react in kind.
.......Are you surprised Cutler got hit? Especially with his penchant to hold onto the ball too long? I'm not... so I guess thats where I'm coming from.
Check the game clock on each sack or do it yourself with a stop watch, but the only sack Cutler held the ball for more than 3 seconds was the one where he rolled out of bounds. On every other sack he was scrambling or on the ground within 3 seconds. (Check times here for you yourself) On the first sack he hits the back on his drop and Messie man hits him. 3 seconds On the second sack he rolls out of bounds. So thats a '7 second' sack. On the third sack you could argue he 'held' the ball too long. But he still was down within 3 seconds On the fourth sack Watt beats Massie around the edge right when Cutler hits the back of his drop and he steps up, right into the un=picked up stunter. Again, on the ground in 3 seconds. On the fifth sack Leno lets his man through, Cutler hits the back of his drop and has to take off running. He can't step up due to pressure and when Langford can't finish his blitz pickup, Cutler is down. Its longer than 3 seconds only because at 2 seconds Cutler is already fleeing for his life.
I don't know where the narrative comes from of Cutler hanging onto the ball for too long. Its not true, yet posters keep posting that in trying to defend an OL that got overwhelmed by a talented front 7. There are going to be teams that give up more than 5 sacks to the Texans, disappointing yes but not unexpected. They are that good.
First of all...hand time will always be faster...you're reacting to what you see so you are delayed. Further...again...think of the opponents being faced here. The clock needs to be sped up. Part of that is on Jay, part of it is on the coaching staff, and part of it is on the line as a whole. Lastly...I love this Massie's man beat him around the edge stuff. If he beat him around the edge he'd be hitting Cutler. Every tackle in the league guides edge rushers up field and the QB is supposed to step up into the pocket...except Cutler couldn't do that because the middle wasn't doing it's job. Massie did his job...allowed Cutler to step up.
Again...I'm not saying Massie was great, all I'm saying is I watched a lot of guys struggle with their pass pro who are supposed to be better than him in pass pro in that game and they weren't called out like Massie was. Why might that be? Lazy journalism for one, and lazy analysis for another.