So someone online made me do some research, and while I have no love for advanced stats, I do like Football Outsiders more then most. And I very much like their OL grades over PFF.
Bears OL graded out 8th overall in both rush and pass protection. And that was w/missing Sitton for part of the year and Long for most of it, AND a rookie OC.
That is pretty damn amazing. And there is really no reason to think they won't be better next year if they can stay healthy and have Howard as the starter from day one, and a better then Cutler QB who gave up 17 sacks in 5 games compared to the 10 or so in the other 11 games.
This OL is turning into being pretty solid.
Without seeing any such advanced stats, the eye test tells me the same thing. Jordan Howard, Cam Meredith, and the OL were the brights spots on offense this year. Pretty much everything else sucked.
We still need some depth at T but otherwise the OL looks like a non-need this offseason.
So someone online made me do some research, and while I have no love for advanced stats, I do like Football Outsiders more then most. And I very much like their OL grades over PFF.
Bears OL graded out 8th overall in both rush and pass protection. And that was w/missing Sitton for part of the year and Long for most of it, AND a rookie OC.
That is pretty damn amazing. And there is really no reason to think they won't be better next year if they can stay healthy and have Howard as the starter from day one, and a better then Cutler QB who gave up 17 sacks in 5 games compared to the 10 or so in the other 11 games.
This OL is turning into being pretty solid.
Without seeing any such advanced stats, the eye test tells me the same thing. Jordan Howard, Cam Meredith, and the OL were the brights spots on offense this year. Pretty much everything else sucked.
We still need some depth at T but otherwise the OL looks like a non-need this offseason.
Team needs depth everywhere. I'd like to see an OT or OG brought in during FA and/or the draft...young guys w/some potential.
It's just not the high priority people are acting like, not just here but also on the radio. Your RB doesn't average 5 ypc w/out having a dominating OL, and in 11 games your qb's don't get sacked on average less then 1 time a game if the OL isn't doing it's job.
the eye test. rankings are statistics and can be manipulated however you want them. I saw too many false starts, holds and they got beat too many times for my liking. I did say they weren't as bad as I thought they'd be, I would like to see better, but I can live with them as long as they don't get any worse.
Leno had 6 false starts in 16 games and 100+ snaps. Your eyes can lie also, watch brain games some time, an entire show about how the eye and mind trick us constantly.
Your first mistake was thinking they would be bad, there was no reason to think that. They are better then you thought b/c your eyes originally lied to you; and apparently still are. Leno and Massie played pretty damn well all season long. The Bears OL when Cutler wasn't under Center gave up a sack .12% per pass attempt, that ranked #1 in the NFL. Sure stats lie, but they don't lie that much. I didn't know this, but listening to 670 today, the left side was actually the more successful power rush this year, that's not normal for an OL, but it makes since considering that Long was out most of the year.
I'd like to see better also, luckily they are both fairly young and could well get better. But there isn't a huge step that needs to be made either, at that point you are talking pro bowl caliber; and that normally requires name recognition more then game play.
Not to make excuses for Cutler, but Massie was awful in the beginning of the season. It took him a while to settle in and get on the same page. I'd be happy with going into the season with a mid round OT stab in the dark for depth/ development purposes.
the eye test. rankings are statistics and can be manipulated however you want them. I saw too many false starts, holds and they got beat too many times for my liking. I did say they weren't as bad as I thought they'd be, I would like to see better, but I can live with them as long as they don't get any worse.
Leno had 6 false starts in 16 games and 100+ snaps. Your eyes can lie also, watch brain games some time, an entire show about how the eye and mind trick us constantly.
Your first mistake was thinking they would be bad, there was no reason to think that. They are better then you thought b/c your eyes originally lied to you; and apparently still are. Leno and Massie played pretty damn well all season long. The Bears OL when Cutler wasn't under Center gave up a sack .12% per pass attempt, that ranked #1 in the NFL. Sure stats lie, but they don't lie that much. I didn't know this, but listening to 670 today, the left side was actually the more successful power rush this year, that's not normal for an OL, but it makes since considering that Long was out most of the year.
I'd like to see better also, luckily they are both fairly young and could well get better. But there isn't a huge step that needs to be made either, at that point you are talking pro bowl caliber; and that normally requires name recognition more then game play.
THAT'S my damned problem. My eye is smarter than my brain. And I can't remember the last time my eye was called out for being smart.
I still think Leno and Massie can be upgraded. No, they're not as bad as I though they'd be, I'd just like to see better.
Why? Team was 8th in pass and rush protection. How are you going to upgrade from top 10 when you were dealing w/injuries?
I think you have to look at how we do against top pass rushing teams. We played some easy teams. I also think we could stand better tackles, but the guys we have are more than serviceable. Don;t think we can compete at a SB level with them though when we will be up against the very best. JMO
Why? Team was 8th in pass and rush protection. How are you going to upgrade from top 10 when you were dealing w/injuries?
I think you have to look at how we do against top pass rushing teams. We played some easy teams. I also think we could stand better tackles, but the guys we have are more than serviceable. Don;t think we can compete at a SB level with them though when we will be up against the very best. JMO
We played 7 games against top 15 defenses in the league, and 9 games against top 15 pass rush teams in the NFL. Again...schedule was not that easy.
I think you have to look at how we do against top pass rushing teams. We played some easy teams. I also think we could stand better tackles, but the guys we have are more than serviceable. Don;t think we can compete at a SB level with them though when we will be up against the very best. JMO
We played 7 games against top 15 defenses in the league, and 9 games against top 15 pass rush teams in the NFL. Again...schedule was not that easy.
Lets see how many are in the final three games of the season. Those are the kind of teams I am talking about.
the eye test. rankings are statistics and can be manipulated however you want them. I saw too many false starts, holds and they got beat too many times for my liking. I did say they weren't as bad as I thought they'd be, I would like to see better, but I can live with them as long as they don't get any worse.
Leno had 6 false starts in 16 games and 100+ snaps. Your eyes can lie also, watch brain games some time, an entire show about how the eye and mind trick us constantly.
Your first mistake was thinking they would be bad, there was no reason to think that. They are better then you thought b/c your eyes originally lied to you; and apparently still are. Leno and Massie played pretty damn well all season long. The Bears OL when Cutler wasn't under Center gave up a sack .12% per pass attempt, that ranked #1 in the NFL. Sure stats lie, but they don't lie that much. I didn't know this, but listening to 670 today, the left side was actually the more successful power rush this year, that's not normal for an OL, but it makes since considering that Long was out most of the year.
I'd like to see better also, luckily they are both fairly young and could well get better. But there isn't a huge step that needs to be made either, at that point you are talking pro bowl caliber; and that normally requires name recognition more then game play.
My opinions are mistakes and your opinions are inarguably correct. Got it. Even though you agreed you'd like to see better...Word for word what I said.... And you cherry pick stats to prove that mediocrity equals greatness and awesome trying to force me to argue they're horrible. I don't play those games. My opinion is my opinion, yours is yours. I said mine and that's that. Go ahead and keep digging up stats. It won't change my opinion the next time massie gets manhandled and I throw popcorn at the TV.