Bold move to trade for Cutler; how'd that work out? Giving up multiple picks, some will be high, isn't the answer when the "bold move" hasn't played more then 2 games, and is in the most qb friendly O system in the NFL.
There is a reason NE drafted another qb, and is now looking to trade Jimmy G; it's matt cassel all over again.
Well first of all you aren't looking at all of the reasons why NE drafted Brissett and why they may have more of a NEED to trade Garoppolo than a DESIRE to do so. It's only what fits your viewpoint you're willing to consider Ric. And don't even go there with the Matt Cassel thing. There is little or no comparison of the two anyone could make other than they were drafted by NE. I don't think you'll find many even here who'll buy your comparison.
How'd the Cutler trade work out? He's the best QB in the history of the team so you tell me. The fact that he's not received a whole lot of ancillary support and has played on some of the lousiest teams we've ever had isn't all on him and despite that he's won more games for us than anyone else did in this Millennium. So over all it wasn't a bad trade just not one with the best outcome. I can only imagine how much worse it might have been with guys like Grossman, Orton and some of the other jewels we've had.
Think about that.
If Billy B liked Jimmy G he be trying to re sign him and not trade him, and he certainly wouldn't have drafted Brisset.
How did the Cutler trade work out? 1 playoff appearance 1 playoff win. It was a complete failure.
I know this will come up many more times before the draft but I may as well salt these threads with this info too. It's the other reason why taking a QB at #3 this year is a bad idea.......$$$$.
Last year the two top picks received contracts that guarantee each of them roughly $27 mil over four years all payable whether they succeed or not. So these guys each got deal averaging around $7 mil per year before they even threw a pass in rookie camp.
Given the increase in the cap for 2017 the guaranteed $$$ for a #3 pick will likely rise to $28 mil or more. So that's what we'd be locked into on a rookie QB and once again have no out for four years if he fails to secure the starting position and win. Big risk huh?
So just having gotten out from under three years of not being able to cut lose of Cutler due at least in part because of the cap ramifications do we want to put ourselves right back in that same position with a questionable rookie and HC who doesn't like or want even play a rookie QB.
What happens if we fire Fox after the 2017 season and the new HC doesn't see a fit for our draftee but once again he's stuck with him as Fox was with Cutler? Do we really want to go back down that road again so soon after having just gotten out of one deal like that?
Yes in all likelihood he would but not a whole lot more game experience. He has 3 starts vs 2 for Jimmy G. The lesser cost is the benefit more than starting experience and actually JG has been active for twice as many games.
But it's good to see you're open minded to a trade. Just not JG huh? Is that because you dislike JG as much as you do Cutler or simply because I suggested it. I find it funny how you are flipping your opinion here for a QB who may not be quite as good.
My problem w/Jimmy G is the cost of the trade(multiple picks one being a 1st rounder) and the cost of the franchise qb contract that has to be given to him w/2 starts under his belt. My other issue is that Billy B runs as friendly a qb O as there is in the game so you cannot take much of what you even saw to heart.
1) We don't know the actual cost of the trade or if they'll even be one so having more than one option is good provided both QBs are shopped. Again, no one is giving up a top ten pick for Jimmy G. The way you keep putting him down I can't even figure out why you would even think that. Which is it Ric. Is he good enough to attract a 1st rounder or another Matt Cassel. He can't be both can he?
2) Neither of them will get a new contract for 2017 so in either case we get one year on the cheap to see if either can become that QB of the future before we sign them long term. Either way you cut it they're gonna get paid in 2018 and I'd be more than happy to do it if they win big. That's the only way they get that big contract and I sure as hell hope one of them can earn it. Problem solved then right?
3) You're afraid of paying one of these guys a franchise level deal after he earns it but not an unproven rookie #3 pick whose gonna cost us upwards of $28 mil guaranteed the day we draft him? 'Splain that to me Lucy. LOL
1) Floor was reported as set at a 1st and 4th. Until the trade happens I'm not moving from that theory. You can imagine different and ignore FACTS but I'm not.
2) They aren't trading for Jimmy G, giving up the picks and then risking letting him walk into FA at the end of the year, that is the stupidest thing I've heard you say, and that is w/all your Culter fanboisms.
3) A rookie deal and a franchise qb deal aren't even close to the same level wtsf are you talking about? Bosa was the 3rd pick last year w/25 guaranteed, but 4mil a year or so. Cutlers deal is 4 years old and his guaranteed was 60 mil and his yearly average was over 10 mil. of the top 12 qb contracts 3 have guaranteed money similar to 25 million, and all are older guys(brees/Brady/Palmer). the contract Jimmy gets is going to be closer to 35-45 mil guaranteed.
Seriously how can you be this delusional w/out purposely trying?
Yes in all likelihood he would but not a whole lot more game experience. He has 3 starts vs 2 for Jimmy G. The lesser cost is the benefit more than starting experience and actually JG has been active for twice as many games.
But it's good to see you're open minded to a trade. Just not JG huh? Is that because you dislike JG as much as you do Cutler or simply because I suggested it. I find it funny how you are flipping your opinion here for a QB who may not be quite as good.
My problem w/Jimmy G is the cost of the trade(multiple picks one being a 1st rounder) and the cost of the franchise qb contract that has to be given to him w/2 starts under his belt.
My other issue is that Billy B runs as friendly a qb O as there is in the game so you cannot take much of what you even saw to heart.
Can you explain this part to me? IMHO Belicheat is by far one of the most demanding HCs in the NFL. If a player can't or won't execute his schemes well he's cut or traded.
On top of that Brady is also on of the most precise and efficient passer I've ever watched so replacing him won't be easy or quick. IMHO there's a reason why at age 39 he's still a starter and has a guaranteed contract that runs for another three years.
I believe it's that contract and Brady's lack of any decline that are the primary reasons the Pats may have to move on from Garoppolo whether they like it or not. I doubt he'd accept a backups salary once he's a UFA whereas they still have Brissett under a rookie contract through 2019 just like Brady.
That being the case, and provided they see similar upside in Brissett, they can move Garoppolo for picks now knowing they still have their asses covered for a #2 and a potential future #1 and between now and 2019 they still have shots at drafting other QBs.
Ric I think it's far more of a timing issue than a talent issue. I believe that if the Pats could hold onto Jimmy G they would but do you see anyway of doing that if he wants to test the FA market. They can't tag him and they can't pay both JG and Brady as starters so unless they want to see him walk in 2018 and get nothing a trade in 2017 may be their best option.
If I can figure this out don't you think 31 NFL GMs can too?
Sweet we are finally back to the old annual question of who is gonna be our QB. Man I missed these days. I am still a Watson fan and hope we land him at #3. Not to sure about trading way the #3 pick for anyone. But fack it, I am rarely right about these things. Hey maybe I can join the Bears personnel department.
Well first of all you aren't looking at all of the reasons why NE drafted Brissett and why they may have more of a NEED to trade Garoppolo than a DESIRE to do so. It's only what fits your viewpoint you're willing to consider Ric. And don't even go there with the Matt Cassel thing. There is little or no comparison of the two anyone could make other than they were drafted by NE. I don't think you'll find many even here who'll buy your comparison.
How'd the Cutler trade work out? He's the best QB in the history of the team so you tell me. The fact that he's not received a whole lot of ancillary support and has played on some of the lousiest teams we've ever had isn't all on him and despite that he's won more games for us than anyone else did in this Millennium. So over all it wasn't a bad trade just not one with the best outcome. I can only imagine how much worse it might have been with guys like Grossman, Orton and some of the other jewels we've had.
Think about that.
If Billy B liked Jimmy G he be trying to re sign him and not trade him, and he certainly wouldn't have drafted Brisset.
How did the Cutler trade work out? 1 playoff appearance 1 playoff win. It was a complete failure.
Ric you're as stubborn as John Fox you know that. Have you read what I posted?
1) How will NE keep JG if as you keep posting he'll want a top QB contract? How do they pay both Garoppolo and Brady a starters salary and Brady's deal is 100% guaranteed through 2019 so he's not going anywhere. He'll retire as a Pat the only question is when. It may not even be in 2020.
They can't stall Garoppolo that long even if they wanted to and you know that too. So tell me again. How does Belicheat afford him and Brady. You haven't answered me on that. So do it please before you post that they would sign him if they wanted to keep him. They probably do but realize they probably can't so they get picks now vs nothing in 2018.
2) If all of the above is true then why wouldn't they draft another QB to develop to replace JG knowing they may have to trade him. That situation impacts what they did the same way that if we did trade for JG or AJ McCarron that wouldn't preclude us from also drafting another QB in the middle rounds would it? Of course it wouldn't so how are they any different?
3) Jay Cutler was one half game short of possibly playing in a Super Bowl that was won by the team who beat us in the NFCC Game. Had he not gotten injured and we won that game and potentially the SB as well we'd never even be having these debates. You do know that don't you? Cutler would still be gold because he won a SB ring for us just as so many of the '85 Bears and even Mac are still golden in Chicago.
Jimmy Mac was nowhere near the QB that Cutler is but he had the good fortune to play on a team with one of the best defenses of all time and he had a RB like Walter Payton. In those days we only passed about 20 times a game too not 30-40 like teams do today. Cutler's production so far surpasses any other QB we've ever had it's not even close and up until Lovie was fired Cutler had won roughly 2/3rds of his starts, 67% I think is correct.
Now, can you tell me which Bears team in the past four years you think could have gotten to the playoffs if we used whichever other QB we had or could have had in place of Cutler? I'd like an answer for this from you too of you think it's all been Cutlers fault. Ric we peaked back around 2010-2011 and it's been pretty much downhill for this team ever since and you've posted about that many times yourself. So again you don't get to have it both ways. If we even had playoff caliber teams and failed to make it due to Cutler I'd agree with you but we didn't did we?
So I'm not gonna agree with you about Cutler being the major cause of our decline these past five years not now or ever because then we'd both be wrong instead of just you.
Soul name the last qb that didnt suceed in that ne system? Now name the qbs that left ne and suceeded.
I'm looking at the player himself Ric and his entire body of work in exactly the same manner I believe Pace or any other NFL GM would not on the basis of some pseudo superstition about NE QBs of the past.
Give me a list of those QB and I'll be happy to review them with you. So far you've mentioned one....Matt Cassel. Who are the others?
Do you honestly believe that if Pace and the Bears pro scouting staff believe that JG is just as viable a QB now as he was three years ago when we passed on him for Ego Ferguson that what you posted above would make any difference?
You have posted yourself that you wish we had drafted him but now you're trying to sell me and others on some nonsense idea that he's been ruined by Bill Belicheat and he's worse today than he was as a rookie? Come on man you can't possibly think anyone is gonna accept that argument. It's absurd.
Sweet we are finally back to the old annual question of who is gonna be our QB. Man I missed these days. I am still a Watson fan and hope we land him at #3. Not to sure about trading way the #3 pick for anyone. But fack it, I am rarely right about these things. Hey maybe I can join the Bears personnel department.
So then you're OK then with spending that #3 pick on Watson or whoever the top QB prospect is and guaranteeing him around $28 mil for four years. We'd better be 100% sure he'll succeed then because for the next 4 years he'll be a tattoo we can't remove.