Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week!

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 10:36:24 GMT -6 via mobile butkus3595 likes this

Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 10:36:24 GMT -6

@bearsinhouston
If the transition isn't going in the right direction, that's Pace's issue. Regardless of record the transition isn't a coaching transition, it's a talent transition. This team needs talent and the person responsible for that - or should be - is Pace. Fox is the overseer of the players on the roster. Pace fills that roster. Bringing in a new HC without a talent laden roster is setting another HC up for failure.

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 10:46:28 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 10:46:28 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 9:50:35 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Dec 29, 2016 9:30:07 GMT -6 @soulman said:

OK, but let's look at this. Fox will be 62 in another 6 weeks. If he goes 8-8 he'll still be the second losing-est HC in Bears history and the second oldest. But the oldest was also the winning-est coach in Bears history and he owned the joint so he could pretty much do as he pleased.

If I understand you then if we go 8-8, still miss the playoffs, but look good doing it you'd bring Fox back for year four? Is that right? So now we'd have a 63 year old HC trying somehow to get this team back on a winning streak and just for shits and grins he's on his way to a 10-6 record in 2018. Then what do you do?

He's gonna be 64 years old in 2019 and still won't have won even 50% of his games as your HC. Are you gonna give him a 4 year extension and hope he ties Marv Levy as the oldest HC to coach in a Super Bowl? Other than the McCaskeys not wanting to pay him off if they fire him I don't see where this all leads to.

When Fox arrived even with my hesitations I was thinking positive and that within two years if he had them back in the playoffs they might give him a two year extension to get a real shot of 4 years to win a SB figuring it might take two shots to do it. Guess I was a bit optimistic huh?

The way it looks it may take two more years just to manage a winning record good enough for him to have one more one and done in the playoffs so again I don't see where it benefits us to keep him even this coming year but it's pretty clear that's they way it's gonna be.

I'm just being honest and straightforward when I say this isn't much different than Cutler. If he's not your guy for the long term and can't take you to a SB then once the cost of moving on is livable just find your guy then and do it. I'm tired of this glacier speed approach to success the McCaskeys are trying to sell us.

Bottom line: Regardless of whether or not Fox is your guy, who are you going to replace him with?

If Pace (or the McCaskeys) has his guy that he wants to go all in on, by all means, do it. Maybe that's Fangio. Maybe it's some upstart OC or DC. Maybe it's a college coach or an assistant coach rising, but replacing Fox for someone you're not 100% comfortable tying your career as a GM to makes no sense in my opinion.

If Fox fails and Pace's draft picks and FA acquisitions continue to 'pan out,' he'll get one more (arguably one - if you think the McCaskeys forced Fox on him) shot at picking an HC. If I were Pace, I think the best move is to keep Fox and use him as the 'rebuild' coach. Once he feels comfortable with the talent on the team, the duties of GM, and the resumes of prospective HCs, make your move. Pace hasn't burned a ton of political capital, yet. I wouldn't burn it now while the team is still acquiring talent.

The cynical perspective I take on Fox is he's a transitional piece. If the transition isn't complete why move on from him? Pace needs to establish a foundation on this team on top of which a new coach can be successful. That's not present. Moving on to a new coach right now, I think, would likely produce the same results. Keep Fox until your transition is complete (or as complete as it can be) and then move forward.

To me Fangio would be sufficient to complete that transition with if he'd take the job but from what I can see that's never been on the table either. So if not Fangio then who? I don't know which is why I keep lobbying against all hope that the McCaskeys will finally realize what a football buffoon Ted Phillips is and either replace him or supplant him with an Exec to run the team because none of them can either. If that's not obvious by now it never will be.

Personally while I think Pace has the player personnel side of the gig down pretty well he isn't experienced enough or connected enough to make that coaching hire on his own which is exactly the way Ted Phillips wants it because that is how he can still wield his power and keep his job. Belli the guy has become so transparent over the years that even in hiding as he always does even I can see the influence peddling and I'm no genius either.

There is no way anyone will convince me the decision to retain Fox was Pace's decision and Pace's alone. Not in another millennium can I persuaded of that. Even his most recent "kool-aid stand" presser as I call it had all of the earmarks of previous Bears methods for dealing with somewhat unpopular decisions. Fox is not well liked by now. Not by the media and not by the fans but Pace is. So send them out hand in hand to show unity even of it doesn't actually exist as portrayed. Go along to get along, don't create waves, and you both keep your jobs. That's the way we do it here. We don't like negative publicity. It's bad for corporate sponsorship.

Belli it's been this way for going on 30 years and as long as the morons who run it keep running it it's gonna stay that way. That's all I can say.....really.

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 10:53:26 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 10:53:26 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 10:36:24 GMT -6 @belliot said:

@bearsinhouston
If the transition isn't going in the right direction, that's Pace's issue. Regardless of record the transition isn't a coaching transition, it's a talent transition. This team needs talent and the person responsible for that - or should be - is Pace. Fox is the overseer of the players on the roster. Pace fills that roster. Bringing in a new HC without a talent laden roster is setting another HC up for failure.

Well, I would say that that statement is very dependent on ones' perspective.

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 10:58:46 GMT -6

Post by GrizzlyBear on Dec 29, 2016 10:58:46 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 9:39:12 GMT -6 JABF said:

The "elephant in the room" that nobody wants to discuss is that it looks like people (and the Bears organization) have set the bar at trying to achieve an 8 to 10 win season under John Fox now. What we had with Lovie Smith.

I find that ironic.

I was (and remain) 100% okay with firing Lovie after that 10-win season. Like Fox, Lovie had taken his team to the SB and lost. Like Fox he had won multiple division titles, even a conference title. But we wanted something better here.

So. Now we have John Fox who will be starting his 3rd season here. The bar seems to have been set to achieve a "Lovie level" performance. Call me stupid, but what on earth have we achieved by firing Lovie here? I'm not championing Lovie Smith at all. I'm just trying (desperately) to follow the Bears logic in all of this.

For the life of me I can't.

Don't worry Dave, you're definitely not stupid. I've been asking myself the same for a while now.

To answer your question, we have done pretty bad since Lovie left. I really like what Pace has done so far with the drafts, however this team overall is worse than it was four years ago.

If I had to choose between four more years of average Lovie or two years of God awful dumbass Trestman and two years of terribly overrated mediocre Fox, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

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Deleted Deleted Member Posts: 0 Likes:	Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 10:59:18 GMT -6 via mobile Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 10:59:18 GMT -6 @bearsinhouston Agreed. So it goes when expressing an opinion. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 11:28:52 GMT -6 shark86, brasilbear, and 1 more like this

Post by GrizzlyBear on Dec 29, 2016 11:28:52 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 9:50:35 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Bottom line: Regardless of whether or not Fox is your guy, who are you going to replace him with?

If Pace (or the McCaskeys) has his guy that he wants to go all in on, by all means, do it. Maybe that's Fangio. Maybe it's some upstart OC or DC. Maybe it's a college coach or an assistant coach rising, but replacing Fox for someone you're not 100% comfortable tying your career as a GM to makes no sense in my opinion.

If Fox fails and Pace's draft picks and FA acquisitions continue to 'pan out,' he'll get one more (arguably one - if you think the McCaskeys forced Fox on him) shot at picking an HC. If I were Pace, I think the best move is to keep Fox and use him as the 'rebuild' coach. Once he feels comfortable with the talent on the team, the duties of GM, and the resumes of prospective HCs, make your move. Pace hasn't burned a ton of political capital, yet. I wouldn't burn it now while the team is still acquiring talent.

As I've said multiple times on this board, there are plenty of young DCs and OCs in the league. Young and hungry people with fresh ideas that are actually on their way up, not down. You just need to have the balls to go out there and try something different.

Does it mean we're definitely going to the playoffs next year? Of course not. But at least you TRIED to get better. Keeping the same worthless employees around and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

You have to keep trying and trying and trying until you find the RIGHT one. And if this means we have to hire 4 or 5 more HCs in the next ten years, so ****ing be it.

Here's what I know. You can't polish a turd. For the life of me I don't understand how some people here are willing to give Fox another chance even though he hasn't done anything to justify keeping his job.

FWIW if we lose on Sunday, Fox will have a 9-23 record with the Bears. FYI The Browns fired Mike Pettine after two years and a 10-22 record. Let that sink in for a minute...

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Last Edit: Dec 29, 2016 11:30:13 GMT -6 by GrizzlyBear

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 11:45:24 GMT -6 GrizzlyBear likes this

Post by brasilbear on Dec 29, 2016 11:45:24 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 11:28:52 GMT -6 GrizzlyBear said:

Dec 29, 2016 9:50:35 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Bottom line: Regardless of whether or not Fox is your guy, who are you going to replace him with?

If Pace (or the McCaskeys) has his guy that he wants to go all in on, by all means, do it. Maybe that's Fangio. Maybe it's some upstart OC or DC. Maybe it's a college coach or an assistant coach rising, but replacing Fox for someone you're not 100% comfortable tying your career as a GM to makes no sense in my opinion.

If Fox fails and Pace's draft picks and FA acquisitions continue to 'pan out,' he'll get one more (arguably one - if you think the McCaskeys forced Fox on him) shot at picking an HC. If I were Pace, I think the best move is to keep Fox and use him as the 'rebuild' coach. Once he feels comfortable with the talent on the team, the duties of GM, and the resumes of prospective HCs, make your move. Pace hasn't burned a ton of political capital, yet. I wouldn't burn it now while the team is still acquiring talent.

As I've said multiple times on this board, there are plenty of young DCs and OCs in the league. Young and hungry people with fresh ideas that are actually on their way up, not down. You just need to have the balls to go out there and try something different.

Does it mean we're definitely going to the playoffs next year? Of course not. But at least you TRIED to get better. Keeping the same worthless employees around and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

You have to keep trying and trying and trying until you find the RIGHT one. And if this means we have to hire 4 or 5 more HCs in the next ten years, so ****ing be it.

Here's what I know. You can't polish a turd. For the life of me I don't understand how some people here are willing to give Fox another chance even though he hasn't done anything to justify keeping his job.

FWIW if we lose on Sunday, Fox will have a 9-23 record with the Bears. FYI The Browns fired Mike Pettine after two years and a 10-22 record. Let that sink in for a minute...

Agree 100%. If you are going to make a change in the future, don't wait. Make it now. The rebuild isn't that far along that changing the HC will make that much of a difference. With the rate at which Pace is making over the roster, there will be 15-20 new faces next season anyway. Move on from Fox now.

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Last Edit: Dec 29, 2016 11:49:56 GMT -6 by brasilbear

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 11:47:34 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 11:47:34 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 11:28:52 GMT -6 GrizzlyBear said:

Dec 29, 2016 9:50:35 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Bottom line: Regardless of whether or not Fox is your guy, who are you going to replace him with?

You have to keep trying and trying and trying until you find the RIGHT one. And if this means we have to hire 4 or 5 more HCs in the next ten years, so ****ing be it.

I've said more than my piece on the issue. I'm firmly in the keep Fox camp. I don't think the answer is persistent turnover. I do think the answer is patience, planning, and personnel. I'm going to attempt to refrain from posting any more on this Fox business - it'll be hard as it's taking over the message board during a time where I have time.

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 11:47:35 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2016 11:47:35 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 11:28:52 GMT -6 GrizzlyBear said:

Dec 29, 2016 9:50:35 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Bottom line: Regardless of whether or not Fox is your guy, who are you going to replace him with?

If Pace (or the McCaskeys) has his guy that he wants to go all in on, by all means, do it. Maybe that's Fangio. Maybe it's some upstart OC or DC. Maybe it's a college coach or an assistant coach rising, but replacing Fox for someone you're not 100% comfortable tying your career as a GM to makes no sense in my opinion.

If Fox fails and Pace's draft picks and FA acquisitions continue to 'pan out,' he'll get one more (arguably one - if you think the McCaskeys forced Fox on him) shot at picking an HC. If I were Pace, I think the best move is to keep Fox and use him as the 'rebuild' coach. Once he feels comfortable with the talent on the team, the duties of GM, and the resumes of prospective HCs, make your move. Pace hasn't burned a ton of political capital, yet. I wouldn't burn it now while the team is still acquiring talent.

As I've said multiple times on this board, there are plenty of young DCs and OCs in the league. Young and hungry people with fresh ideas that are actually on their way up, not down. You just need to have the balls to go out there and try something different.

Does it mean we're definitely going to the playoffs next year? Of course not. But at least you TRIED to get better. Keeping the same worthless employees around and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

You have to keep trying and trying and trying until you find the RIGHT one. And if this means we have to hire 4 or 5 more HCs in the next ten years, so ****ing be it.

Here's what I know. You can't polish a turd. For the life of me I don't understand how some people here are willing to give Fox another chance even though he hasn't done anything to justify keeping his job.

FWIW if we lose on Sunday, Fox will have a 9-23 record with the Bears. FYI The Browns fired Mike Pettine after two years and a 10-22 record. Let that sink in for a minute...

yeah, but he didn't work for sweaty

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Brad Biggs mailbag. Dynamite read this week! Dec 29, 2016 14:37:46 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 29, 2016 14:37:46 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 9:50:35 GMT -6 @belliot said:

Dec 29, 2016 9:30:07 GMT -6 @soulman said:

OK, but let's look at this. Fox will be 62 in another 6 weeks. If he goes 8-8 he'll still be the second losing-est HC in Bears history and the second oldest. But the oldest was also the winning-est coach in Bears history and he owned the joint so he could pretty much do as he pleased.

If I understand you then if we go 8-8, still miss the playoffs, but look good doing it you'd bring Fox back for year four? Is that right? So now we'd have a 63 year old HC trying somehow to get this team back on a winning streak and just for shits and grins he's on his way to a 10-6 record in 2018. Then what do you do?

He's gonna be 64 years old in 2019 and still won't have won even 50% of his games as your HC. Are you gonna give him a 4 year extension and hope he ties Marv Levy as the oldest HC to coach in a Super Bowl? Other than the McCaskeys not wanting to pay him off if they fire him I don't see where this all leads to.

When Fox arrived even with my hesitations I was thinking positive and that within two years if he had them back in the playoffs they might give him a two year extension to get a real shot of 4 years to win a SB figuring it might take two shots to do it. Guess I was a bit optimistic huh?

The way it looks it may take two more years just to manage a winning record good enough for him to have one more one and done in the playoffs so again I don't see where it benefits us to keep him even this coming year but it's pretty clear that's they way it's gonna be.

I'm just being honest and straightforward when I say this isn't much different than Cutler. If he's not your guy for the long term and can't take you to a SB then once the cost of moving on is livable just find your guy then and do it. I'm tired of this glacier speed approach to success the McCaskeys are trying to sell us.

Bottom line: Regardless of whether or not Fox is your guy, who are you going to replace him with?

If Pace (or the McCaskeys) has his guy that he wants to go all in on, by all means, do it. Maybe that's Fangio. Maybe it's some upstart OC or DC. Maybe it's a college coach or an assistant coach rising, but replacing Fox for someone you're not 100% comfortable tying your career as a GM to makes no sense in my opinion.

If Fox fails and Pace's draft picks and FA acquisitions continue to 'pan out,' he'll get one more (arguably one - if you think the McCaskeys forced Fox on him) shot at picking an HC. If I were Pace, I think the best move is to keep Fox and use him as the 'rebuild' coach. Once he feels comfortable with the talent on the team, the duties of GM, and the resumes of prospective HCs, make your move. Pace hasn't burned a ton of political capital, yet. I wouldn't burn it now while the team is still acquiring talent.

The cynical perspective I take on Fox is he's a transitional piece. If the transition isn't complete why move on from him? Pace needs to establish a foundation on this team on top of which a new coach can be successful. That's not present. Moving on to a new coach right now, I think, would likely produce the same results. Keep Fox until your transition is complete (or as complete as it can be) and then move forward.

Ding Ding Ding....we have a winner folks.

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