Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 1, 2024 16:24:46 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by JABF on Oct 1, 2024 16:24:46 GMT -6

Oct 1, 2024 11:23:29 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Oct 1, 2024 11:04:39 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Could be. But if the neck injury is limiting his strength and his ability to play, then he's not that much better of an option then Jenkins who also struggles w/health that can limit his play on the field.

All NFL players are strong though, it's about, are you stronger than the guy next to you or on the other side of you. Right now Jones is not stronger, no matter how strong he is. Paea was strong, but not compared to the guys on the DL facing him. Either way, it's not good enough to continue with.

Not that it means much to me....but Paea is second all time in bench press reps at the combine. The all time record holder only did 2 more reps than him. He was one of the strongest dudes in the league...but his expression of that strength...as you said, not as good as the o-lineman he had to face.

I appreciated your input because I have no clue. All I can do is listen to the various people comment on what's wrong with Jones. I get it, that every human being is unique and consequently these struggling players may have varying factors contributing to why they are not doing well in games. But the one thing I keep coming back to is that Caleb Williams will have a higher ceiling if his pass protection is better than what we now see on gamedays. I figure that's on the Bears to figure out and fix. I have no clue as to what's on the coach, player or Poles. It is nonetheless encouraging that Caleb seems to be improving each game now. It's not like he isn't used to playing with poor pass protection. He certainly had that experience his last season at USC.

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davidl
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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 1, 2024 17:29:39 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by davidl on Oct 1, 2024 17:29:39 GMT -6

Oct 1, 2024 16:16:16 GMT -6 JABF said:

Oct 1, 2024 15:36:51 GMT -6 davidl said:

Seahawks have 31st ranked OL and arguably no better WRs than the Bears. So this is not ALL on the OL. Seahawks can move the ball and put points on the board with a crappy OL. I should know.

Why not give Amegadjie some playing time at LT? If he’s the future, then Poles can FINALLY give priority to center. But we won’t know with him sitting on the bench.

I agree that it's not all on the OL. Some is on the rookie quarterback. Some on Shane Waldron - some of his play designs (some) and the play calling. Some is the installation of a new offense with a lot of new players. I'm still believing that a lot of this can be improved (and the offense & Caleb are incrementally improving each game now).

I see your point, but I don't think we'll see Braxton Jones benched at this point. The Bears are probably thinking they need 5 guys getting reps together as a unit now - as best they can accommodate that with injuries happening. Amegadjie is listed as the backup LT right now. If Brax gets injured we'll see him play at that point. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with any of this. That's just my gut feeling. Brax is the guy this year. And the Bears have him next year on a rookie 5th round player deal... so he's an affordable backup next year, much like Larry Borom was this year in his last rookie contract year. I'll bet Brax becomes the new Borom in 2025.

Darnell Wright had a good game pass-protecting on Sunday. He didn't allow any pressures, sacks, hurries. We can quibble about where he should play, but he does look like a legit NFL starter. Other than him, I'm not sure the other 4 guys make sense being on the 2025 roster as starters (Jenkins is a health issue). Amegadjie (hopefully) is one of those 4 starters needed. I'll bet he is. That leaves 3 starter quality IOL to find. Maybe Bates could be a good guard. The one year he had a lot of work was in 2022, mostly at RG. He really wasn't that good. Not horrible but not that good (LINK). 59.0 run-blocking. 61.5 pass-blocking. 23 hurries, 4 hits on the QB, and 28 pressures on the QB allowed. 3 penalties. Again, that's mostly as a RG that year. Is that "good enough" for the Bears next year? I don't think so. He is an undrafted guy... and has that Borom-Brax vibe for me (a bargain bin dude... a "hope and a prayer" guy. Or as you say, "a lost dog" guy.

Brax should start this season, unless Bears are eliminated from playoffs with a couple games left on the schedule. If that happens, put Amegadjie in to see if he can do anything. Gotta know whether to prioritize LT or C. If you’re looking for 4 starters, you can’t prioritize everything.

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 1, 2024 19:07:29 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 1, 2024 19:07:29 GMT -6

Oct 1, 2024 15:45:28 GMT -6 davidl said:

Oct 1, 2024 11:20:52 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I said technique is PART of it...not the whole thing. Can Morgan teach technique? Sure...I'm sure he can. But Brax is going to have to problem solve in game a little too. Technique doesn't exist in isolation, the environment matters, the structure of the athlete matters, the athletes ability to perceive the stimulus being presented to them and react...and yes, the strength level of the athlete matters. So what is the limiting factor/factors here that isn't allowing Brax to do his job effectively?

I found this quote from Brax during training camp when asked about where he's at with his improvement against the bull rush to be interesting: "I’m starting to really see the numbers to me when I get back in my set. And I really see those numbers and starting to punch them and anchoring down on it a lot better, so I’m starting to see it a lot quicker.

I still think there’s just some improvement when they’re attacking my inside shoulder. But other than that I’m definitely getting better each day."

He mentions "seeing the numbers quicker and starting to punch"...thats perception of stimulus. If I'm late to recognize/diagnose a stimulus I'm not going to win unless I'm uber strong or fast. Like a baseball player who swings late on a fastball...they're not going to hit the ball unless their swing is super fast through the zone, and even then, its not going to be ideal most likely. Another example is Shaqarri Richardson. She is incredibly fast...obviously. However, her times are not as good as they could/should be because her start is not very good. She's been able to get away with it in races, but not always, and it is a limiting factor in her performance. So if the brain is late receiving the electrical signals to contract muscles and produce force/show strength...its not going to be performed as well as it could be, to put it simply. Timing matters, so if Brax is late to anchor and punch, he's gonna get beat, no matter how strong he is, generally speaking.

As for lower body strength...yes, it could be an issue. I've never seen Brax train, I don't know what his absolute strength looks like, so I can't speak on it intelligently. I do know that I never saw Dave Diehl squat once during his career when he trained at the gym I was at. And on the RARE occasion he did squat, it wasn't more than 225. He didn't have an issue handling the bull rush. Its possible to be strong and not be able to show it because of the reasons I talked about above.

Well, you might be right. Brax might be fixable with a better coach than Morgan.

But Thayer and Gabriel both say strength is the problem. That’s also fixable, but he needs to do the right kind of weight training. You know that better than I.

Strength is the low hanging fruit. And its reasonable to say that his strength is an issue if he's getting beat the way he is. My point is its likely MORE than just strength, since strength is easily attained.

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 1, 2024 19:50:21 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Oct 1, 2024 19:50:21 GMT -6

Oct 1, 2024 19:07:29 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Oct 1, 2024 15:45:28 GMT -6 davidl said:

Well, you might be right. Brax might be fixable with a better coach than Morgan.

But Thayer and Gabriel both say strength is the problem. That’s also fixable, but he needs to do the right kind of weight training. You know that better than I.

Strength is the low hanging fruit. And its reasonable to say that his strength is an issue if he's getting beat the way he is. My point is its likely MORE than just strength, since strength is easily attained.

So, do you see anything obviously wrong technically in the way he anchors against bull rushers? I want him to engage these guys BEFORE they can get too much forward momentum for his anchor to hold when the guy is nearly at the QB.

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 1, 2024 19:54:18 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 1, 2024 19:54:18 GMT -6

Oct 1, 2024 19:50:21 GMT -6 davidl said:

Oct 1, 2024 19:07:29 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Strength is the low hanging fruit. And its reasonable to say that his strength is an issue if he's getting beat the way he is. My point is its likely MORE than just strength, since strength is easily attained.

So, do you see anything obviously wrong technically in the way he anchors against bull rushers? I want him to engage these guys BEFORE they can get too much forward momentum for his anchor to hold when the guy is nearly at the QB.

I'd have to look more carefully at him in game, and I'm not an o-line coach...but again, if he's late, even if he does everything technically right, he'll lose.

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 1, 2024 20:11:45 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by davidl on Oct 1, 2024 20:11:45 GMT -6

Oct 1, 2024 19:54:18 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Oct 1, 2024 19:50:21 GMT -6 davidl said:

So, do you see anything obviously wrong technically in the way he anchors against bull rushers? I want him to engage these guys BEFORE they can get too much forward momentum for his anchor to hold when the guy is nearly at the QB.

I'd have to look more carefully at him in game, and I'm not an o-line coach...but again, if he's late, even if he does everything technically right, he'll lose.

One of the reasons we have pre-snap false starts even at home is that Williams and the OL can’t get together on the cadence. Sometimes Brax gets so focused on not doing the false starts, that he’s too slow getting out of his stance. I have heard him say that himself. Maybe that can get better for the whole OL as the season progresses. This unit just didn’t have enough time preseason to get that down solid.

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 2, 2024 7:32:59 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 2, 2024 7:32:59 GMT -6

Oct 1, 2024 20:11:45 GMT -6 davidl said:

Oct 1, 2024 19:54:18 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I'd have to look more carefully at him in game, and I'm not an o-line coach...but again, if he's late, even if he does everything technically right, he'll lose.

One of the reasons we have pre-snap false starts even at home is that Williams and the OL can’t get together on the cadence. Sometimes Brax gets so focused on not doing the false starts, that he’s too slow getting out of his stance. I have heard him say that himself. Maybe that can get better for the whole OL as the season progresses. This unit just didn’t have enough time preseason to get that down solid.

So the NFL*Pro shows replays of games with the All 22 view from both the sideline and the end zone. Its great because I can put in "Caleb Williams" and then it lets me select which plays of his I want to watch, just his passes, all his plays etc. I can then even break those down further to down and distance, situation, etc. Just watching the first few pass plays, Braxton is late with his punch ON EVERY PLAY so far. Beyond that his hand placement has SUCKED on more than 1 of them. Just a recipe to get beat. I don't care how much you bench or squat...if you let guys get into your chest first and get leverage, you're not going to beat them.

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Last Edit: Oct 2, 2024 7:35:26 GMT -6 by butkus3595

mpbears68 Hall of Famer Posts: 9,119 Likes: 11,416	Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 2, 2024 8:21:43 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this Post by mpbears68 on Oct 2, 2024 8:21:43 GMT -6 Brax and Tevin are both looking for contracts this year or right after. Neither has had a good start that makes you want to pay them. Darnell Wright hasn't looked good either. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 2, 2024 9:05:50 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by JABF on Oct 2, 2024 9:05:50 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2024 8:21:43 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Brax and Tevin are both looking for contracts this year or right after.

Neither has had a good start that makes you want to pay them. Darnell Wright hasn't looked good either.

I'll add that Wright did have a solid game against the Rams. He struggled in the first two games of the season for sure. In the third game against the Colts he did better, but still had a few bad plays. But on Sunday, the 4th game he looked really good. No sacks, pressures, hurries, but he did have 2 penalties (neither was accepted).

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davidl
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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes Oct 2, 2024 9:11:07 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Oct 2, 2024 9:11:07 GMT -6

Oct 2, 2024 7:32:59 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Oct 1, 2024 20:11:45 GMT -6 davidl said:

One of the reasons we have pre-snap false starts even at home is that Williams and the OL can’t get together on the cadence. Sometimes Brax gets so focused on not doing the false starts, that he’s too slow getting out of his stance. I have heard him say that himself. Maybe that can get better for the whole OL as the season progresses. This unit just didn’t have enough time preseason to get that down solid.

So the NFL*Pro shows replays of games with the All 22 view from both the sideline and the end zone. It’s great because I can put in "Caleb Williams" and then it lets me select which plays of his I want to watch, just his passes, all his plays etc. I can then even break those down further to down and distance, situation, etc. Just watching the first few pass plays, Braxton is late with his punch ON EVERY PLAY so far. Beyond that his hand placement has SUCKED on more than 1 of them. Just a recipe to get beat. I don't care how much you bench or squat...if you let guys get into your chest first and get leverage, you're not going to beat them.

That’s a good point. What does Brax use as his cue to get out of his stance:
1. Listening to cadence and signal from Williams?
2. Watch the opponent and don’t move until you see him move?

If it is #1, Brax gets off first.
If it is #2, the opponent gets off first.

You are right. If that’s the main problem, strength won’t save the day.

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Brax got dominated yesterday by Jared Verse' bull rushes

Post by JABF on Oct 1, 2024 16:24:46 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Oct 1, 2024 17:29:39 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 1, 2024 19:07:29 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Oct 1, 2024 19:50:21 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 1, 2024 19:54:18 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Oct 1, 2024 20:11:45 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Oct 2, 2024 7:32:59 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Oct 2, 2024 8:21:43 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Oct 2, 2024 9:05:50 GMT -6

Post by davidl on Oct 2, 2024 9:11:07 GMT -6