I hope the Bears don't trade away any more draft picks now. I have no problem with what has been traded away to this point. But now is the time to use our picks (we have 8 in next year's draft including two 2nd round picks). Let's get young ascending guys in now - on rookie contracts. It is supposed to be a much deeper draft class in 2025. The 2024 class was weak sauce and I get it, that it made a lot of sense to make trades THIS year. But time to get back to building primarily through the draft. Build out the remaining team this way because it is the best way to do it - talent wise and financial wise.
You appear to be flip-flopping again. Just last week you thought we can be Super Bowl ready 2025-26. Now you want to conserve a second round pick in 2025 who won’t play nearly as well as Hendrickson in 2025 and probably not in 2026, either. He’s an elite pass rusher. You don’t win Super Bowls with a crowd of players on rookie contracts. The Super Bowl teams go out and GET the veteran players they need to push them over the top. I was just reading a report from Bengals media. They say little chance he gets traded, because they are in “win now” mode. If you don’t think Bears are there in 2025-26, then we’re on different time horizons.
Leonard Floyd never had ZERO sacks in a season. In fact Floyd had double the amount of production his first 3 years than Trey did. Now, like Floyd, scheme and fit matter for players. Trey is in a better scheme for him now and his play has shown it. I'm not trying to say he's not a good player, I'm just saying I'm not going to give up the same capital we gave up for Sweat for a player who is gonna be 30, and wants a big new deal. Giving it up for Sweat was one thing...he is an ascending player.
The other point JABF makes about "learning curve" is that players progress at different rates. Drew Brees took 3 years. Stroud did not. Who cares? What matters is where they are now, not how they were 5-6 years ago. Over the last 4 years, his WORST sack year is Sweat's AVERAGE sack year. I can understand why you'd rather talk about what they were doing 5-6 years ago. He is worth a second round draft pick to help get us Super Bowl ready 2025-26.
You are choosing to look at the years that work best for your argument. I looked at the dude's WHOLE CAREER! And you are incorrect. It's not just where the are NOW that matters, it's where they are NOW and WHERE THEY WILL BE, added into how it impacts your ability to address the rest of the roster.
The other point JABF makes about "learning curve" is that players progress at different rates. Drew Brees took 3 years. Stroud did not. Who cares? What matters is where they are now, not how they were 5-6 years ago. Over the last 4 years, his WORST sack year is Sweat's AVERAGE sack year. I can understand why you'd rather talk about what they were doing 5-6 years ago. He is worth a second round draft pick to help get us Super Bowl ready 2025-26.
You are choosing to look at the years that work best for your argument. I looked at the dude's WHOLE CAREER! And you are incorrect. It's not just where the are NOW that matters, it's where they are NOW and WHERE THEY WILL BE, added into how it impacts your ability to address the rest of the roster.
BS. If positions were reversed, you would be telling me that recent years are far more significant than early years on the learning curve.
I am not talking about 2027-28. Barring injury, there is no reason to believe Hendrickson will not be productive 2025-26.
I hope the Bears don't trade away any more draft picks now. I have no problem with what has been traded away to this point. But now is the time to use our picks (we have 8 in next year's draft including two 2nd round picks). Let's get young ascending guys in now - on rookie contracts. It is supposed to be a much deeper draft class in 2025. The 2024 class was weak sauce and I get it, that it made a lot of sense to make trades THIS year. But time to get back to building primarily through the draft. Build out the remaining team this way because it is the best way to do it - talent wise and financial wise.
You appear to be flip-flopping again. Just last week you thought we can be Super Bowl ready 2025-26. Now you want to conserve a second round pick in 2025 who won’t play nearly as well as Hendrickson in 2025 and probably not in 2026, either. He’s an elite pass rusher. You don’t win Super Bowls with a crowd of players on rookie contracts. The Super Bowl teams go out and GET the veteran players they need to push them over the top. I was just reading a report from Bengals media. They say little chance he gets traded, because they are in “win now” mode. If you don’t think Bears are there in 2025-26, then we’re on different time horizons.
I don't believe we need to do any more trading away of draft picks at this point. Hendrickson is a 3rd round pick. We need to draft our own guys now. Get them on a rookie contract. My gut feeling is that this is how Poles will go forward from here (at least this year). But maybe I'm wrong.
You appear to be flip-flopping again. Just last week you thought we can be Super Bowl ready 2025-26. Now you want to conserve a second round pick in 2025 who won’t play nearly as well as Hendrickson in 2025 and probably not in 2026, either. He’s an elite pass rusher. You don’t win Super Bowls with a crowd of players on rookie contracts. The Super Bowl teams go out and GET the veteran players they need to push them over the top. I was just reading a report from Bengals media. They say little chance he gets traded, because they are in “win now” mode. If you don’t think Bears are there in 2025-26, then we’re on different time horizons.
I don't believe we need to do any more trading away of draft picks at this point. Hendrickson is a 3rd round pick. We need to draft our own guys now. Get them on a rookie contract. My gut feeling is that this is how Poles will go forward from here (at least this year). But maybe I'm wrong.
+1
And I don't think you are wrong on this myself. We will start very soon paying out players we want to keep as they exit their rookie contracts. The more up and coming draft choices we have who are themselves on rookie deals, increases our ability to keep young veterans.
If we can stabilize our defensive line this year with short term veteran FA signings and then go for the long term fix in the 2025 draft makes the most sense to me.
Learning curve for him as a rookie. Heck Leonard Floyd stepped it up after leaving the Bears with his lowest sack being 9.
Leonard Floyd never had ZERO sacks in a season. In fact Floyd had double the amount of production his first 3 years than Trey did. Now, like Floyd, scheme and fit matter for players. Trey is in a better scheme for him now and his play has shown it. I'm not trying to say he's not a good player, I'm just saying I'm not going to give up the same capital we gave up for Sweat for a player who is gonna be 30, and wants a big new deal. Giving it up for Sweat was one thing...he is an ascending player.
But why does the early part of their career matter? Rookies tend to struggle their first few years. Should I base Peyton Manning as a bad QB because of his rookie year? With recent advancements to technology, better knowledge of the body. Players can play easily play into their mid 30's unlike the past.
This is how I think of it. What are the chances a 17 sack pass rusher would be there in the 2nd round? Assuming we're a playoff team next year. You can kiss the first 15 picks away. Meaning those blue chip players won't be there or we can trade up and still give up that 2nd round pick to get to the top 10 and hope a blue chip pass rusher is still there.
Leonard Floyd never had ZERO sacks in a season. In fact Floyd had double the amount of production his first 3 years than Trey did. Now, like Floyd, scheme and fit matter for players. Trey is in a better scheme for him now and his play has shown it. I'm not trying to say he's not a good player, I'm just saying I'm not going to give up the same capital we gave up for Sweat for a player who is gonna be 30, and wants a big new deal. Giving it up for Sweat was one thing...he is an ascending player.
But why does the early part of their career matter? Rookies tend to struggle their first few years. Should I base Peyton Manning as a bad QB because of his rookie year? With recent advancements to technology, better knowledge of the body. Players can play easily into their mid 30's unlike the past.
This is how I think of it. What are the chances a 17 sack pass rusher would be there in the 2nd round? Assuming we're a playoff team next year. You can kiss the first 15 picks away. Meaning those blue chip players won't be there.
You appear to be flip-flopping again. Just last week you thought we can be Super Bowl ready 2025-26. Now you want to conserve a second round pick in 2025 who won’t play nearly as well as Hendrickson in 2025 and probably not in 2026, either. He’s an elite pass rusher. You don’t win Super Bowls with a crowd of players on rookie contracts. The Super Bowl teams go out and GET the veteran players they need to push them over the top. I was just reading a report from Bengals media. They say little chance he gets traded, because they are in “win now” mode. If you don’t think Bears are there in 2025-26, then we’re on different time horizons.
I don't believe we need to do any more trading away of draft picks at this point. Hendrickson is a 3rd round pick. We need to draft our own guys now. Get them on a rookie contract. My gut feeling is that this is how Poles will go forward from here (at least this year). But maybe I'm wrong.
We would be drafting a DE in the second half of the first round. The top few DE’s will be long gone by then. What quality do you expect to get? And then you also need to factor “learning curve.” Realistically, the guy is not likely to be ready to have high impact before 2027, if ever. Meanwhile, Hendrickson has been a top-5 pass rusher for the last few years, and would be WAY better than your rookie in (my) 2025 Super Bowl ready timeline. To me, the only way your position figures is if you have now abandoned 2025-26 as your Super Bowl ready timeline and moved to 2027-28.
But why does the early part of their career matter? Rookies tend to struggle their first few years. Should I base Peyton Manning as a bad QB because of his rookie year? With recent advancements to technology, better knowledge of the body. Players can play easily into their mid 30's unlike the past.
This is how I think of it. What are the chances a 17 sack pass rusher would be there in the 2nd round? Assuming we're a playoff team next year. You can kiss the first 15 picks away. Meaning those blue chip players won't be there.
He knows all that. He just likes to argue.
I do get where he is coming from. It is always better to build through the draft than FA. You will have long term success that way. Just look at the Packers but on the flip side. Not using FA to fill needs will also cost you Super Bowls. Ask any Packer fans about the front office and not using FA during Rodgers prime. BB utilize both FA and draft to build his dynasty.
Then add to the fact Williams and Rome are on rookie contract. Meaning you're saving 70 million in cap space alone. What are we going to do with that cap space? Just have it sit there and look pretty? Time is ticking and their rookie contracts won't stay rookie forever.
I don't believe we need to do any more trading away of draft picks at this point. Hendrickson is a 3rd round pick. We need to draft our own guys now. Get them on a rookie contract. My gut feeling is that this is how Poles will go forward from here (at least this year). But maybe I'm wrong.
+1
And I don't think you are wrong on this myself. We will start very soon paying out players we want to keep as they exit their rookie contracts. The more up and coming draft choices we have who are themselves on rookie deals, increases our ability to keep young veterans.
If we can stabilize our defensive line this year with short term veteran FA signings and then go for the long term fix in the 2025 draft makes the most sense to me.
That should be the goal. And I understand you do need some veteran FA's too. But the ideal is for Poles to make the most of the draft so there is a constant inflow of fresh rookie talent, and rookie contracts. Do just what you describe there, Chuck, and keep the guys (your own guys) that you want extended and try to have a young kid in the pipeline to replace the others. That's how the Patriots would do it and they would get the compensation picks (some years they'd have 10 draft picks) - or they'd trade some of their guys and get compensated that way. Then with more bites of the apple in drafts you can afford to have a few misses.
The opposite of this model is to buy older vets at "full retail prices" either by trading away your precious draft capital, or just having to pay out for more expensive contracts. I'd do the "wholesale" thing as much as possible and do this with drafted rookies. Keep this model going forever with the fresh inflow of young talent, instead of getting to a point where you are overpaying for aging vets (the old Bears GM model that got us into cap hell with a mediocre team).
