If the McCaskeys want something better for their multi-billion dollar family business then hey, open up the pocketbook and build it on the land they own in Arlington Heights. I can see reasonable infrastructure upgrades for the AH area (roads and public transportation). But other than that, let the family pony up for their stadium. David, people in Illinois are being taxed to death here. This isn't like past years. People are pissed. Businesses are leaving Illinois because of the tax burden here. In 2024 it's just not the political climate for giving money for the McCaskey family to play sports games. It just seems like a non-starter right now in THIS political climate. It is a "bad look" in an election year too.
Okay, but wasn’t there some issue with AH that caused them to go with the Chicago location?
It all went back to the various taxing bodies that participate in the annual extortion around here (aka Property Taxes) deciding to start getting their dividend from this project, before it was built. That, coupled with the inevitable NMBY attitude by some of the people who live within a mile or so of the old racetrack site, generated a pretty unfriendly attitude towards the Bears. This is why Teddy Philips should have been kicked to the curb long, long ago. He purchased the property before having any of the tax rate discussion before buying the property. Or, as Whisky Beer Bob would say, we're f@cked!!
Okay, but wasn’t there some issue with AH that caused them to go with the Chicago location?
It all went back to the various taxing bodies that participate in the annual extortion around here (aka Property Taxes) deciding to start getting their dividend from this project, before it was built. That, coupled with the inevitable NMBY attitude by some of the people who live within a mile or so of the old racetrack site, generated a pretty unfriendly attitude towards the Bears. This is why Teddy Philips should have been kicked to the curb long, long ago. He purchased the property before having any of the tax rate discussion before buying the property. Or, as Whisky Beer Bob would say, we're f@cked!!
I see. Maybe they can turn it into a cornfield or something.
If the McCaskeys want something better for their multi-billion dollar family business then hey, open up the pocketbook and build it on the land they own in Arlington Heights. I can see reasonable infrastructure upgrades for the AH area (roads and public transportation). But other than that, let the family pony up for their stadium. David, people in Illinois are being taxed to death here. This isn't like past years. People are pissed. Businesses are leaving Illinois because of the tax burden here. In 2024 it's just not the political climate for giving money for the McCaskey family to play sports games. It just seems like a non-starter right now in THIS political climate. It is a "bad look" in an election year too.
Okay, but wasn’t there some issue with AH that caused them to go with the Chicago location?
Apparently the family bought the Arlington Heights property without getting any deal in place for taxes on the property - and then found out the taxes would be more than they thought they should be. Then Ted Phillips was replaced by Kevin Warren.
Phillips was an Arlington Heights guy but Kevin Warren convinced the family to change course and stay in Chicago and continue a rental agreement with Chicago, but in a new stadium. But the irony is that the taxes for the Arlington Heights property were reduced. No, the McCaskeys did not get a huge reduction but from what I read it did seem like a fair tax situation now. People DO have to pay taxes, including businesses.
But Warren seems locked in on being in the City of Chicago. The mayor of Chicago has a total train wreck going right now on several levels (last I heard there was a recall effort to get him out of office)... and the mayor jumped on the Bears bandwagon - probably to get the original 2002 debt refinanced by rolling it into a new deal funded with Illinois (the State) giving them the green light to add yet more tax burden on Illinois people. And I think the mayor probably liked anything positive that might take some heat off of him.... he would have "saved" the City from "losing" the Bears.
It's a typical McCaskey family crapfest now. Arlington Heights would like to have the Bears build on the property they own there. Yes, like most businesses, the expectation is that the family will pay their taxes - that do not seem unreasonable from what I'm reading now. Warren seems like a good guy who is a country bumpkin when it comes to understanding Illinois and Chicago politics. This isn't Minnesota where he got a deal done for the Vikings. This is an entirely different world that he is dealing with in Chicago Illinois... a cesspool really.
The irony, for me anyway, is the McCaskey family wanting us taxpayers to pay for their stadium - but the thought of THEM paying their taxes on their Arlington Heights property is somehow "wrong" for them. They look like billionaires wanting us folks to take on the tax burden so they can make money for their family.
Hey, I love watching football, and other sports. And I'm glad these rich people have these multi-billion dollar businesses... hey, nothing wrong with being rich. But I don't like taxes going up on the everyday people for something like this. And if the Bears don't want to pay for their business to have new digs, then hey, stay in Soldier Field and let the City pay off the original debt they still owe for renovating Soldier Field in 2002.
The irony, for me anyway, is the McCaskey family wanting us taxpayers to pay for their stadium - but the thought of THEM paying their taxes on their Arlington Heights property is somehow "wrong" for them. They look like billionaires wanting us folks to take on the tax burden so they can make money for their family.
Hey, I love watching football, and other sports. And I'm glad these rich people have these multi-billion dollar businesses... hey, nothing wrong with being rich. But I don't like taxes going up on the everyday people for something like this. And if the Bears don't want to pay for their business to have new digs, then hey, stay in Soldier Field and let the City pay off the original debt they still owe for renovating Soldier Field in 2002.
What a total crapfest this has become.
We are debating the issue on the Seahawks forum, too. The damn thread is 7 pages long. I’m learning a lot about how other stadiums are getting built. The Raiders had no big problem getting $1 billion in public money, but as you note, Las Vegas is a very different economy than Chicago.
The opinion on the Seahawks forum is that Bears are greedy bastards who should finance the whole project themselves without any public revenue. That’s impossible. Bears annual net income is only around $300 million I estimate, and McCaskey family net worth was estimated at $1.3 billion. Since NFL rules do not allow an owner to incur more than $600 million debt to built a stadium, the McCaskey family would have to put down billions in down payment that they don’t have.
The irony, for me anyway, is the McCaskey family wanting us taxpayers to pay for their stadium - but the thought of THEM paying their taxes on their Arlington Heights property is somehow "wrong" for them. They look like billionaires wanting us folks to take on the tax burden so they can make money for their family.
Hey, I love watching football, and other sports. And I'm glad these rich people have these multi-billion dollar businesses... hey, nothing wrong with being rich. But I don't like taxes going up on the everyday people for something like this. And if the Bears don't want to pay for their business to have new digs, then hey, stay in Soldier Field and let the City pay off the original debt they still owe for renovating Soldier Field in 2002.
What a total crapfest this has become.
We are debating the issue on the Seahawks forum, too. The damn thread is 7 pages long. I’m learning a lot about how other stadiums are getting built. The Raiders had no big problem getting $1 billion in public money, but as you note, Las Vegas is a very different economy than Chicago.
The opinion on the Seahawks forum is that Bears are greedy bastards who should finance the whole project themselves without any public revenue. That’s impossible. Bears annual net income is only around $300 million I estimate, and McCaskey family net worth was estimated at $1.3 billion. Since NFL rules do not allow an owner to incur more than $600 million debt to built a stadium, the McCaskey family would have to put down billions in down payment that they don’t have.
I don't have a problem if taxpayers end up taking on a reasonable added tax burden to upgrade roads and public transportation for the McCaskeys to build on their property that they own in Arlington Heights. Yes, they will need to pursue private financing for building their stadium. I have to believe the income (ROI) would be significant with that 350 acres of prime land there... if they can't leverage that into bigtime money income then they are more inept that we think. And as for the reasonable tax burden for upgrading the roads and public transportation... and maybe other costs like law enforcement - I think there would be a return on investment for the AH city to offset that. But Downtown Chicago is a very different situation from what I have read. But if the McCaskey family can't afford something - well - my thinking is that sometimes people (and private businesses) can't afford some things. Welcome to real life. Right?
The context for this is the fact that Illinois is not doing well financially in general. And Chicago is on life-support. This year alone they are going to be over a half-billion dollars in the red. THEY ARE BROKE. They can't even provide basic human services at a decent level. Why on earth should they build a sports stadium for the McCaskeys? Why?
Chicago and IL far worse off than anything happening in FL. One of the major issues w/the Sox/Bear even thinking to ask for cash for a stadium is/was the fact the the city/state have no money to offer.
Ric, I also think the idea of adding any additional taxes on Illinois taxpayers, in this present political climate is a non-starter. People here are being taxed to death. Chicago hasn't paid any of the principle on the 2002 tax burden.
The rhetoric I'm reading/hearing is that it is flat "wrong" to put this burden on the backs of people already taxed heavily. And for what? To help the McCaskey family who are owners of a multi-billion dollar business? This isn't 2002 (when the space ship Soldier Field reno happened). This is a time where people are white-hot pissed about taxes here in Illinois. And the City of Chicago is a total train wreck right now on several levels. This is something they can't afford if Illinois isn't giving them our tax money. People (like me) who live in Illinois don't WANT this. Sure, some don't care how much debt there is... but a lot of folks want the madness to stop.
EDIT: And when I read the McCaskey family's estimates regarding the revenue this will generate for Chicago, I think those figures (at the very least) seem inflated over what $$$ is already being generated now with Soldier Field in that area of the City. And I've read that these revenue estimates for sports stadium impact on cities are simply not true numbers. They don't generate anything remotely near those estimates.
Sadly that's the other thing, the IL tax payers and the FL tax payers might as well be in different countries b/c IL taxes are laughably higher.
In chicago on the lakefront the estimates should only be slightly improved over what it is. but in AH, w/all the room for other businesses it would be greatly increased, exponentially.
Post by paytonisgod on Jun 8, 2024 19:04:24 GMT -6
I don't live in Illinois so I'm not really affected by it in any real way, but the state government is absolutely right in telling Chicago no way. Stadiums shouldn't be built with taxpayer funds. The Bears are a private a business. They need to find a private means to finance it. There are plenty of people in the city and surrounding area that could care less about sports. Why should they be forced to finance it? Especially if they are already taxed up to their eyeballs.
I love the Bears, but if they can't raise the money privately then I guess they shouldn't be getting a new stadium.
I don't live in Illinois so I'm not really affected by it in any real way, but the state government is absolutely right in telling Chicago no way. Stadiums shouldn't be built with taxpayer funds. The Bears are a private a business. They need to find a private means to finance it. There are plenty of people in the city and surrounding area that could care less about sports. Why should they be forced to finance it? Especially if they are already taxed up to their eyeballs.
I love the Bears, but if they can't raise the money privately then I guess they shouldn't be getting a new stadium.
So what’s Warren’s next move:
1. Scale down the project from $7 billion to $2 billion. Try for something like Raiders (Allegiant Stadium). 2. Bring in private equity people who who would own the stadium (like SoFi stadium). 3. Screw it. Stay in Soldier Field.
I am not asking what you want. I am asking what you think Warren will do.
1. Scale down the project from $7 billion to $2 billion. Try for something like Raiders (Allegiant Stadium). 2. Bring in private equity people who who would own the stadium (like SoFi stadium). 3. Screw it. Stay in Soldier Field.
I am not asking what you want. I am asking what you think Warren will do.
The franchise must have a financial plan in place for the Arlington Heights development or they would not have made such a significant $$$ purchase to begin with. The plan they showcased for that development project looked like a gold mine of real estate potential. That campus area would have high-end hotels, restaurants, businesss, sportsbook - Hawk Howerton, the architecture company responsible for constructing the Bears' new stadium in Arlington Park, released a 31-page document outlining the design of the sports district surrounding the Bears' stadium and it looks pretty impressive. Obviously the Bears would not build these businesses, but rather sell to the high-end businesses the lots. I can't even imagine the revenue potential for commercial lots there that would be priced by the square-foot. The cost of the stadium itself would be peanuts compared with the financial windfall from that kind of development on that 326 acre footprint there - properties they'd leverage into sales by the commercial square foot. Building the stadium would be pocket-lint in comparison to the revenue brought in.
So, did the Bears just MSU that Arlington Heights development project - just bought it to sell it at a loss now... LOL, like some pig farm or corn field? No. There was money behind that plan, otherwise they would not have purchased the property to begin with. There "was" a financial plan but Warren wanted Chicago lakefront. A scaled down rental agreement again.
Here's the head scratcher for me. Arlington Heights put together a tax break package after the Bears first threatened to stay in Chicago (LINK) that sounds pretty darned decent:
"Village officials came up with a compromise over a tax property bill for land the Bears already own in Arlington Heights. The potential deal would give the Bears tax liabilities of about $6.3 for the first year and $3.6 million for the second year. The current tax bill for the former Arlington Park property is nearly $10 million. In a statement from three local school districts, they said they offered the Bears one assessment of the property for five years that would have resulted in an average annual payment of $5 million, but the team did not accept the proposal."
I just think Warren wants the team in Chicago. Oh, and for what it's worth 10 NFL teams currently do not play in the city whose name they use. They've moved out of those cities. It's not like the Bears are the first team to not play in their city.
