OFFSEASON THOUGHTS.

davidl
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 10:55:22 GMT -6 bears40 likes this

Post by davidl on Dec 22, 2023 10:55:22 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2023 10:21:41 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I go back and forth on all this too. One minute I want them all gone, the next I think Flus maybe saved his job with the improvement of the D and the way he's kept the locker room together and playing hard the past two years, especially last year given the obvious tank job the front office was pulling. Thats no easy feat.

I don't necessarily worry about the "new offensive system" thing as much as some do. I get the concern, but I think the benefit of getting an OC that would actually call an offense that works with Fields strengths would outweigh any negative from learning a new system. By the way...that should be a concern even if we move on from Fields...I have NO FAITH that Getsy would call an offense that would take advantage of Williams abilities. At the VERY LEAST I want Getsy out of here...I'm almost 100% certain of that, and it would take a miracle to change my mind.

If Flus is kept some people have mentioned Reich as an OC candidate...and I could see that, and I think he'd probably do a good job bringing his west coast scheme here and getting to work with DJ, Kmet, and the added pieces we draft. I don't know man...I'm just glad it’s not my decision to make.

1. Hire Harbaugh as HC. Draft Harrison #1.
2. Keep Fields. Draft Harrison #1 and Latu/Newton #5.
3. Trade Fields for 2nd round pick for JABF’s favorite center, draft Harrison #1 and Bo Nix #5.

The common denominator in all scenarios is draft Harrison #1.

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bears40
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 11:17:14 GMT -6

Post by bears40 on Dec 22, 2023 11:17:14 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2023 21:03:34 GMT -6 JABF said:

Dec 21, 2023 20:46:46 GMT -6 bearsfaninaz said:

The problem will be this. How many people want the chance to be OC here on a 1 year deal? That could make or break someone's career long-term. If they keep Eberflus and Fields it's only for a year with all likelihood. My personal opinion is Fields is at his peak right now.

That's a legit concern. It would take a guy (new OC) who looks at this team - with additions we've mentioned on offense (like MHJ, DJ, Kmet and a solid upgrade at center - and Fields) and the guy 100% believes in this team... that it can be a contender in 2024. The defense is ascending and should be one of the best in the NFL next year. So, if I'm looking for my first OC gig, I'd see the 2024 Bears situation as being better than most openings. The guy will have a boatload of talent and a solid D. The team could really be special next season.

Do we really want another first year/ rookie OC?

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brasilbear
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 11:56:40 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Dec 22, 2023 11:56:40 GMT -6

I don't quite understand the objection to a first year/rookie OC.

(1) An experienced OC currently working for a team according to NFL hiring rules can't take a lateral move unless he is out of contract or his current team doesn't object. For example, Matt Nagy can't come to Chicago under Flus to be OC because he is the current OC in KC. That eliminates an entire run of OCs who can't take the job.

(2) Experienced OCs currently working as QB coaches and/or passing game coordinators who do not have OC in their job title can be hired as OC. Its how the Bears got Getsy.

(3) Experienced OCs not working or in college can be hired.

There is some wiggle room at hiring, like giving the guy assistant HC title in addition to OC (I think that is still allowed). So its not quite as literal as I wrote it above.

So if we aren't interested in first time OC (most likely a QB coach from a successful team), its guys not working or ex-NFL-OC working for college programs. This is how the Bears ended up with Martz and Tice under Lovie, and the guy who was OC under Nagy (HC at Oregon IIRC).

Who else is out there? Its not a question designed to mock or belittle. Its not my job or anyone else's job to keep track of this (I teach full time in my real job when I'm not pretending to be a genius NFL-FO/HC/OC here.) Are there any names we (collective we) like who don't have the non-rookie or first time OC issue?

aside: If the report is right, Ben Johnson is pricing himself out of a job.

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dachuckster
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 11:59:30 GMT -6 shark86 and butkus3595 like this

Post by dachuckster on Dec 22, 2023 11:59:30 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2023 10:21:41 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I go back and forth on all this too. One minute I want them all gone, the next I think Flus maybe saved his job with the improvement of the D and the way he's kept the locker room together and playing hard the past two years, especially last year given the obvious tank job the front office was pulling. Thats no easy feat.

I don't necessarily worry about the "new offensive system" thing as much as some do. I get the concern, but I think the benefit of getting an OC that would actually call an offense that works with Fields strengths would outweigh any negative from learning a new system. By the way...that should be a concern even if we move on from Fields...I have NO FAITH that Getsy would call an offense that would take advantage of Williams abilities. At the VERY LEAST I want Getsy out of here...I'm almost 100% certain of that, and it would take a miracle to change my mind.

If Flus is kept some people have mentioned Reich as an OC candidate...and I could see that, and I think he'd probably do a good job bringing his west coast scheme here and getting to work with DJ, Kmet, and the added pieces we draft. I don't know man...I'm just glad its not my decision to make.

I get caught up in a similar dilemma regarding the coaching staff. There are things that Flus has done I really like. But the one thing that bugs me about Flus more than anything it he seems to have a tendency to get all hyper conservative if he goes into the 4th quarter with a lead. Any team needs an offensive scheme that works for them and their roster. And then once it starts to work pretty well, you need to keep playing according to what is working.

I mean if you have a game plan that works for the 1st 3 quarters, you keep it up for the 4th quarter. I don't advocate taking high levels of risk but if your running game is what got you there, keep running until the opponent makes you stop. If you get your lead with Fields in some sort of RPO, you keep the option offense going, until they stop it. And if your defense has been kicking butt and taking names, you keep it up.

If we keep Flus and he gets a new (and hopefully better) OC, how is it really going to change Flus getting overly conservative?

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mpbears68
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 12:31:12 GMT -6

Post by mpbears68 on Dec 22, 2023 12:31:12 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2023 10:21:41 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I go back and forth on all this too. One minute I want them all gone, the next I think Flus maybe saved his job with the improvement of the D and the way he's kept the locker room together and playing hard the past two years, especially last year given the obvious tank job the front office was pulling. Thats no easy feat.

I don't necessarily worry about the "new offensive system" thing as much as some do. I get the concern, but I think the benefit of getting an OC that would actually call an offense that works with Fields strengths would outweigh any negative from learning a new system. By the way...that should be a concern even if we move on from Fields...I have NO FAITH that Getsy would call an offense that would take advantage of Williams abilities. At the VERY LEAST I want Getsy out of here...I'm almost 100% certain of that, and it would take a miracle to change my mind.

If Flus is kept some people have mentioned Reich as an OC candidate...and I could see that, and I think he'd probably do a good job bringing his west coast scheme here and getting to work with DJ, Kmet, and the added pieces we draft. I don't know man...I'm just glad its not my decision to make.

I loathe Getsy and want him gone no matter what. No way you can put him in charge of a new rookie QB and no way you can run it back unchanged if they decide to give Fields a 4th year.

Getsy leaving is the absolute bare minimum you have to do IMO and my confidence in Flus having the pull to get a good OC candidate is low.

Whether it's a new HC or new OC (or both), they gotta be on the same page with the QB decision. We have many times seen the Bears make stupid forced marriages there in the past. Nagy-Mitch and Flutsy-Fields being the 2 most recent examples.

I like Reich too but do you see his WCO as a good fit for Justin? I don't. Quick decisions and timing throws don't seem to be his strength. TBH, I don't know any OCs that come to mind as a good fit for Fields. Maybe Arians from a decade ago. Or Greg Roman.

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brasilbear
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 12:44:14 GMT -6 bsbears likes this

Post by brasilbear on Dec 22, 2023 12:44:14 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2023 11:59:30 GMT -6 dachuckster said:

Dec 22, 2023 10:21:41 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I go back and forth on all this too. One minute I want them all gone, the next I think Flus maybe saved his job with the improvement of the D and the way he's kept the locker room together and playing hard the past two years, especially last year given the obvious tank job the front office was pulling. Thats no easy feat.

I don't necessarily worry about the "new offensive system" thing as much as some do. I get the concern, but I think the benefit of getting an OC that would actually call an offense that works with Fields strengths would outweigh any negative from learning a new system. By the way...that should be a concern even if we move on from Fields...I have NO FAITH that Getsy would call an offense that would take advantage of Williams abilities. At the VERY LEAST I want Getsy out of here...I'm almost 100% certain of that, and it would take a miracle to change my mind.

If Flus is kept some people have mentioned Reich as an OC candidate...and I could see that, and I think he'd probably do a good job bringing his west coast scheme here and getting to work with DJ, Kmet, and the added pieces we draft. I don't know man...I'm just glad its not my decision to make.

I get caught up in a similar dilemma regarding the coaching staff. There are things that Flus has done I really like. But the one thing that bugs me about Flus more than anything it he seems to have a tendency to get all hyper conservative if he goes into the 4th quarter with a lead. Any team needs an offensive scheme that works for them and their roster. And then once it starts to work pretty well, you need to keep playing according to what is working.

I mean if you have a game plan that works for the 1st 3 quarters, you keep it up for the 4th quarter. I don't advocate taking high levels of risk but if your running game is what got you there, keep running until the opponent makes you stop. If you get your lead with Fields in some sort of RPO, you keep the option offense going, until they stop it. And if your defense has been kicking butt and taking names, you keep it up.

If we keep Flus and he gets a new (and hopefully better) OC, how is it really going to change Flus getting overly conservative?

It doesn't and that is my second reason for wanting to dump them all and start over. Any OC Flus hires is going to have to operate a conservative OFF, because Flus is a DEF minded HC. I believe the three double digit lead give aways were due to Flus not trusting the OFF and believing is DEF could hold the breech. There isn't complimentary football being played in his mind. There is DEF and then not turning the ball over on OFF. Field position football from the early 2000s is the goal.

Brasil's reason for firing Flus:

(1) Need to reset rookie QB contract, so change should happen at HC, OC and QB1.
(2) Flus coaches like a DC. He can't see that developing Fields would have been to the benefit of the DEF. Instead, Fields was forced into a role his still maturing skill set wasn't suited for. I fully expect Fields to have a turn around when he leaves Chicago, I didn't not believe this about Mitch by the way.
(3) Didn't play his rookie DTs when they needed game experience to grow.
(4) Completely mismanaged player rotations to the extent that the GM had to sit him down and explain it to him.
(5) Didn't have the team prepared at all for the first game of the season. If I was the owner he would have been fired the next day.
(6) reserved for future issues
(7) reserved for future issues

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AlexM Administrator Posts: 5,705 Likes: 5,467	OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 13:18:14 GMT -6 via mobile Post by AlexM on Dec 22, 2023 13:18:14 GMT -6 Dec 21, 2023 23:01:46 GMT -6 mpbears68 said: Fire the coaches. Hire Harbaugh. Let him decide on Fields. Im exactly there. EXACTLY Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top
	Roses are red, violets are blue, if you have any sense you'll keep Butkus away from you

butkus3595
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 13:18:20 GMT -6 shark86 likes this

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 22, 2023 13:18:20 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2023 12:31:12 GMT -6 mpbears68 said:

Dec 22, 2023 10:21:41 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I go back and forth on all this too. One minute I want them all gone, the next I think Flus maybe saved his job with the improvement of the D and the way he's kept the locker room together and playing hard the past two years, especially last year given the obvious tank job the front office was pulling. Thats no easy feat.

I don't necessarily worry about the "new offensive system" thing as much as some do. I get the concern, but I think the benefit of getting an OC that would actually call an offense that works with Fields strengths would outweigh any negative from learning a new system. By the way...that should be a concern even if we move on from Fields...I have NO FAITH that Getsy would call an offense that would take advantage of Williams abilities. At the VERY LEAST I want Getsy out of here...I'm almost 100% certain of that, and it would take a miracle to change my mind.

If Flus is kept some people have mentioned Reich as an OC candidate...and I could see that, and I think he'd probably do a good job bringing his west coast scheme here and getting to work with DJ, Kmet, and the added pieces we draft. I don't know man...I'm just glad its not my decision to make.

I loathe Getsy and want him gone no matter what. No way you can put him in charge of a new rookie QB and no way you can run it back unchanged if they decide to give Fields a 4th year.

Getsy leaving is the absolute bare minimum you have to do IMO and my confidence in Flus having the pull to get a good OC candidate is low.

Whether it's a new HC or new OC (or both), they gotta be on the same page with the QB decision. We have many times seen the Bears make stupid forced marriages there in the past. Nagy-Mitch and Flutsy-Fields being the 2 most recent examples.

I like Reich too but do you see his WCO as a good fit for Justin? I don't. Quick decisions and timing throws don't seem to be his strength. TBH, I don't know any OCs that come to mind as a good fit for Fields. Maybe Arians from a decade ago. Or Greg Roman.

Poles might be the one pulling the trigger on an OC. I was listening to Adam Ranks podcast and he mentioned sources telling him the Bears had contacted a highly thought of OC who hasn't been an HC in the league. He didn't want to give too much away and burn his source...but if they're doing it now it's Poles reaching out, not Flus.

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JABF
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 13:46:27 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2023 13:46:27 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2023 10:21:41 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I go back and forth on all this too. One minute I want them all gone, the next I think Flus maybe saved his job with the improvement of the D and the way he's kept the locker room together and playing hard the past two years, especially last year given the obvious tank job the front office was pulling. Thats no easy feat.

I don't necessarily worry about the "new offensive system" thing as much as some do. I get the concern, but I think the benefit of getting an OC that would actually call an offense that works with Fields strengths would outweigh any negative from learning a new system. By the way...that should be a concern even if we move on from Fields...I have NO FAITH that Getsy would call an offense that would take advantage of Williams abilities. At the VERY LEAST I want Getsy out of here...I'm almost 100% certain of that, and it would take a miracle to change my mind.

If Flus is kept some people have mentioned Reich as an OC candidate...and I could see that, and I think he'd probably do a good job bringing his west coast scheme here and getting to work with DJ, Kmet, and the added pieces we draft. I don't know man...I'm just glad its not my decision to make.

+1 to all of that ^^^^^
That last point is especially my feelings on it all too.

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JABF
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OFFSEASON THOUGHTS. Dec 22, 2023 13:49:12 GMT -6 bears40 likes this

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2023 13:49:12 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2023 11:17:14 GMT -6 bears40 said:

Dec 21, 2023 21:03:34 GMT -6 JABF said:

That's a legit concern. It would take a guy (new OC) who looks at this team - with additions we've mentioned on offense (like MHJ, DJ, Kmet and a solid upgrade at center - and Fields) and the guy 100% believes in this team... that it can be a contender in 2024. The defense is ascending and should be one of the best in the NFL next year. So, if I'm looking for my first OC gig, I'd see the 2024 Bears situation as being better than most openings. The guy will have a boatload of talent and a solid D. The team could really be special next season.

Do we really want another first year/ rookie OC?

Point well-taken. Whatever they end up doing I just hope it's the right move.

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