I have zero love for Flus or Getsy and think both should be fired for sure. But lets be honest here all of us -- if Fields was tearing it up this year, we wouldn't notice or care about them. Just can't win much with mediocre QB play. And the Bears have had almost nothing but mediocre (or worse) QB play for many years.
I agree with your entire post, but this in particular is what I have been thinking about this afternoon. If you really want to solve a problem that you have been struggling with - like this QB thing - wouldn't you pull out all of the stops to ensure that you do everything humanly possible to support a QB success here? I mean everything. Focus like a laser on the #1 issue that has killed the franchise for decades here. Attack the problem. Instead our QBs have to overcome issues instead of being supported by a rock-solid offense (players and coaches).
I don't see that here. I see clown show stuff. Only for fans there is nothing funny to watch yet another season with the same failures on offense.
Take the offensive line issue as an example. There probably isn't one member of this messageboard who couldn't build a better OL than the Bears have done in the past number of years. Seriously. We wouldn't have slapped together 5th rounder Borom, 5th rounder Brax, paid $$$ for backup C Lucas Patrick, and probably would have (at least) had a guy in the pipeline to replace an old Whitehair. Do you think ANY of us couldn't have invested better in the OL in these past two years of drafts? Or for that matter in the past 5 or 6 years?
I have zero love for Flus or Getsy and think both should be fired for sure. But lets be honest here all of us -- if Fields was tearing it up this year, we wouldn't notice or care about them. Just can't win much with mediocre QB play. And the Bears have had almost nothing but mediocre (or worse) QB play for many years.
I agree with your entire post, but this in particular is what I have been thinking about this afternoon. If you really want to solve a problem that you have been struggling with - like this QB thing - wouldn't you pull out all of the stops to ensure that you do everything humanly possible to support a QB success here? I mean everything. Focus like a laser on the #1 issue that has killed the franchise for decades here. Attack the problem. Instead our QBs have to overcome issues instead of being supported by a rock-solid offense (players and coaches).
I don't see that here. I see clown show stuff. Only for fans there is nothing funny to watch yet another season with the same failures on offense.
Take the offensive line issue as an example. There probably isn't one member of this messageboard who couldn't build a better OL than the Bears have done in the past number of years. Seriously. We wouldn't have slapped together 5th rounder Borom, 5th rounder Brax, paid $$$ for backup C Lucas Patrick, and probably would have (at least) had a guy in the pipeline to replace an old Whitehair. Do you think ANY of us couldn't have invested better in the OL in these past two years of drafts? Or for that matter in the past 5 or 6 years?
This offensive line, when healthy, is a pretty damn good offensive line. The problem is they haven't been healthy. Can't really fault anyone for that.
Post by butkus3595 on Oct 31, 2023 17:57:26 GMT -6
Sweat is the guy I wanted, so I'm glad Poles went and got him. He's an OVERALL great defensive end. He can rush the passer and he's rock solid against the run. He's a problem at defensive end! Chase is a physical freak of nature...but the dude CANNOT stay healthy, and if you aren't going to get his medicals, trading a mid round pick and then extending him would be dangerous. The 9ers are not in the position to care. Its about this year for them. Comparing just the compensation given for them and not including the context that Chase hasn't been on the field for HALF HIS CAREER is just people hating on the Bears for clicks. Sweat is a STUD! Sweat will allow Yannick to be more free and actually help Dexter as well. This improves the whole defensive line.
Beyond that, this edge class is WEAK. There isn't one who's worth a top 5 pick...maybe top 10...including Verse, who probably cost himself millions not coming out last year. This solves a HUGE need with a PROVEN player. Give me the proven guy EVERY TIME over a maybe.
Lastly, I don't think this says anything about Flus and his job security. I think he's gone at the end of the year, even with this move. This move is about the future. A smart coach will figure out how to use a guy like Sweat.
Post by butkus3595 on Oct 31, 2023 17:58:35 GMT -6
Oh...and I think this may give some insight into how the Bears potentially feel about Fields. This will no doubt improve this team, potentially making their pick worse.
Young "developed bad habits like deviating from play call to make splash plays"
DC wanted to keep Sweat, but saw the Bears trade as to valuable, and saw the trading of Young as addition by subtraction.
But ya we should have went after Young. DC didn't want to keep him; not b/c of cap but b/c they didn't want him similar to Pitt selling off Claypool. Poles avoided a huge mistake.
Yeah from I have been reading Sweat is by far the safer and more reliable Edge, therefore the greater premium trade value. I think and hope this means Poles has learned some things since the Claypool debacle.
But I LIKE the deal. We need legit good players and he's a legit good player. And I like that Poles had the balls to take another shot.
Sweat is a better player than anyone he's gonna draft in the early 2nd in April. This draft looks weak at edge.
Young "developed bad habits like deviating from play call to make splash plays"
DC wanted to keep Sweat, but saw the Bears trade as to valuable, and saw the trading of Young as addition by subtraction.
But ya we should have went after Young. DC didn't want to keep him; not b/c of cap but b/c they didn't want him similar to Pitt selling off Claypool. Poles avoided a huge mistake.
Yeah from I have been reading Sweat is by far the safer and more reliable Edge, therefore the greater premium trade value. I think and hope this means Poles has learned some things since the Claypool debacle.
But I LIKE the deal. We need legit good players and he's a legit good player. And I like that Poles had the balls to take another shot.
Sweat is a better player than anyone he's gonna draft in the early 2nd in April. This draft looks weak at edge.
Not just that, but you aren't likely to get an Edge like Sweat in FA. He's either getting re signed or traded, never going to hit the open market, forget bidding war in FA, never getting there.
Young is going to hit the open market b/c of issues w/health and issues w/coachability.
GM's F up, young GM's f up more as they are learning. Biggest thing is, do they learn from their F ups or keep making them, Poles seems to learn.
Post by brasilbear on Oct 31, 2023 19:16:10 GMT -6
After reading around the web I still like the trade but its based on my presupposition that we overrate the potential of a draft pick versus the actual production of a proven player. In my mind there is a line where underneath the line the potential of the draft pick is worth more than the production of the player. Above that line, the production from an established player is worth more than the potential of the pick. Where exactly that line is located is what makes this difficult to apply across the board.
I'm not a draft guy, there are many concepts that have developed around the draft since the rise of the draftniks that i think are worthless (this isn't the place where I'm going into them.) So, most likely than not, I admit that I undervalue draft picks v actual production. This is my blind spot. I look at the history of edge rushers or DE taken high in the second and don't see a lot of steady production from guys in the past few years. THERE ARE PLENTY OF GOOD PLAYERS ACROSS THE POSTIONS THAT CAN BE TAKEN HIGH IN THE SECOND, I'M NOT SAYING THERE AREN'T. But bringing in Sweat before he hits FA and the bidding war for his services makes sense to me from a team building aspect.
A second point someone made was that now Poles doesn't have to use a first on an Edge or DE. Or he can trade down and address several positions without needing to draft an Edge or DE immediately.
As far as the other side, the only argument i like against the move is that that 2nd rounder would come with a much much much smaller contract than Sweat is going to get. But with Poles bankroll it shouldn't stop him from addressing any positions he wants in FA (C or G or WR or waterboy....)
A positive look at the Sweat and Johnson decisions.
LINK Montez Sweat trade, Jaylon Johnson decision rebuild-shaping moves if Bears stick landing The Bears made two potentially rebuild-shaping decisions at the NFL trade deadline, but Ryan Poles still has work to do to cement them as wins