My opinion is I want a team with competent management. That starts with Warren. If he is a solid team president, I will defer to his decision. If he is not, it makes no difference what any of us think. We would be screwed for the foreseeable future.
If you want a straight up or down vote on Poles, I can't give it. I don't know what was going on behind the scenes. None of us do. I want all of the incompetents thrown out the door. If the management includes Poles in that, great. If not, I sure hope they're right.
I suppose it is theoretically possible that Poles has both hands tied behind his back by management decisions above his level. In that case, all the incompetence lies with them, not him. I assume that is not true, but since we don’t know what’s behind the scenes, we can’t be 100% certain that Poles is himself responsible for what appears to be his decisions. You are correct on that point.
But humor me for a moment and assume that Poles is responsible for this roster. Would that alter your answer to the question?
JABF: I have no doubt that Warren has more information than we do. However, he may be under orders from ownership to give Poles a “second chance to learn from his mistakes.” From my own experience in the business world, if you F-up as badly as Poles has, the boss rarely gives anybody the opportunity to repeat. “Second chances are the refuge of those who fail “ (a quote from John Wicks 4 movie I am watching right now). It is also possible that Poles and Warren are now friends, and that may influence Warren’s judgment quite apart from his knowledge of the situation.
I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate. I don't mean this in any sort of adversarial way. I just see it as a waste of time, for me. Please do what you want to do if you enjoy it.
I agree with you about Poles in the corporate world. I've spent a ton of time in the corporate world myself and found the politics really ruthless and frankly disgusting. The term that I've used that anyone with even a passing relationship with a big screw-up may end up in what I called the "10 meter death zone" (a circle around the person or issue that means you get fired if you were caught in it, regardless of any actual culpability). Unless, of course, you were some big dudes buddy or relative or something. Then you might even get promoted. And I've seen some really good people let go.
I'm not defending Pole and I am not trying to support him either. I feel that with the coaching staff, it is an entirely different story. The whole group needs to go. And like your feeling about what might happen with Warren and Poles, I kind of feel for Poles as he probably presented with conditions for getting hired on that included Eberflus, or a short list where Eberflus was the lesser of the evils. This was way before Warren was ever in the picture and Ted Philips, Bill Polian, et al were all involved. A classic McCaskey s**t show. Something we have seen with disgusting regularity for decades. If you want to throw someone under the bus because the things they touched that ended up in disaster, ask yourself why Ted Philips is still on the Bears org chart. There has never been any accountability for any McCaskey or any of their inner circle. And boy have the done some very destructive things to the team over the years.
That doesn't mean the Poles should get any pass on any mistake he may have made. Just that I have sympathy for someone caught up in a bad situation. I do this because I have taken jobs with a lot of responsibility and found out shortly after starting the new job that many things were totally misrepresented at the interview(s) and there was no reasonable way to stay afloat. Where I was staring abject failure in the face. And it was not my fault. Once that happens to you, you get a little more even handed and forgiving when you evaluate people. If you find straightforward blame for bad decisions, you act. And you do it as quickly as possible to minimize the damage to the organization. Otherwise, you get the best information on what happened that you can, and then act on it.
I suppose it is theoretically possible that Poles has both hands tied behind his back by management decisions above his level. In that case, all the incompetence lies with them, not him. I assume that is not true, but since we don’t know what’s behind the scenes, we can’t be 100% certain that Poles is himself responsible for what appears to be his decisions. You are correct on that point.
But humor me for a moment and assume that Poles is responsible for this roster. Would that alter your answer to the question?
JABF: I have no doubt that Warren has more information than we do. However, he may be under orders from ownership to give Poles a “second chance to learn from his mistakes.” From my own experience in the business world, if you F-up as badly as Poles has, the boss rarely gives anybody the opportunity to repeat. “Second chances are the refuge of those who fail “ (a quote from John Wicks 4 movie I am watching right now). It is also possible that Poles and Warren are now friends, and that may influence Warren’s judgment quite apart from his knowledge of the situation.
I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate. I don't mean this in any sort of adversarial way. I just see it as a waste of time, for me. Please do what you want to do if you enjoy it.
I agree with you about Poles in the corporate world. I've spent a ton of time in the corporate world myself and found the politics really ruthless and frankly disgusting. The term that I've used that anyone with even a passing relationship with a big screw-up may end up in what I called the "10 meter death zone" (a circle around the person or issue that means you get fired if you were caught in it, regardless of any actual culpability). Unless, of course, you were some big dudes buddy or relative or something. Then you might even get promoted. And I've seen some really good people let go.
I'm not defending Pole and I am not trying to support him either. I feel that with the coaching staff, it is an entirely different story. The whole group needs to go. And like your feeling about what might happen with Warren and Poles, I kind of feel for Poles as he probably presented with conditions for getting hired on that included Eberflus, or a short list where Eberflus was the lesser of the evils. This was way before Warren was ever in the picture and Ted Philips, Bill Polian, et al were all involved. A classic McCaskey s**t show. Something we have seen with disgusting regularity for decades. If you want to throw someone under the bus because the things they touched that ended up in disaster, ask yourself why Ted Philips is still on the Bears org chart. There has never been any accountability for any McCaskey or any of their inner circle. And boy have the done some very destructive things to the team over the years.
That doesn't mean the Poles should get any pass on any mistake he may have made. Just that I have sympathy for someone caught up in a bad situation. I do this because I have taken jobs with a lot of responsibility and found out shortly after starting the new job that many things were totally misrepresented at the interview(s) and there was no reasonable way to stay afloat. Where I was staring abject failure in the face. And it was not my fault. Once that happens to you, you get a little more even handed and forgiving when you evaluate people. If you find straightforward blame for bad decisions, you act. And you do it as quickly as possible to minimize the damage to the organization. Otherwise, you get the best information on what happened that you can, and then act on it.
+1 Two additional thoughts. First, personally, I'm just not wired to go to the negative with people or situations. As you put it, "I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate." Second, if the expectation is that we (or any NFL team) will have a GM who won't make significant mistakes in the beginning years - well, that guy doesn't exist. Never has. If the Bears fire Poles this quick, then good luck getting a quality GM to take a job here. Most GMs get a second swing at hiring a HC. And as far as the QB, Fields isn't even his QB. Surely you give a guy a chance to draft his first QB here, right?
Eberflus was on the Bears (McCaskey's) short list before Poles was hired. Could he have refused the job because of that? Sure. But in the real world he probably took the job hoping he could work with him.
I'm fine if Warren sees Poles as needing to be fired. But I'm not going to be disappointed if Warren believes Poles is our best way forward and keeps him.
I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate. I don't mean this in any sort of adversarial way. I just see it as a waste of time, for me. Please do what you want to do if you enjoy it.
I agree with you about Poles in the corporate world. I've spent a ton of time in the corporate world myself and found the politics really ruthless and frankly disgusting. The term that I've used that anyone with even a passing relationship with a big screw-up may end up in what I called the "10 meter death zone" (a circle around the person or issue that means you get fired if you were caught in it, regardless of any actual culpability). Unless, of course, you were some big dudes buddy or relative or something. Then you might even get promoted. And I've seen some really good people let go.
I'm not defending Pole and I am not trying to support him either. I feel that with the coaching staff, it is an entirely different story. The whole group needs to go. And like your feeling about what might happen with Warren and Poles, I kind of feel for Poles as he probably presented with conditions for getting hired on that included Eberflus, or a short list where Eberflus was the lesser of the evils. This was way before Warren was ever in the picture and Ted Philips, Bill Polian, et al were all involved. A classic McCaskey s**t show. Something we have seen with disgusting regularity for decades. If you want to throw someone under the bus because the things they touched that ended up in disaster, ask yourself why Ted Philips is still on the Bears org chart. There has never been any accountability for any McCaskey or any of their inner circle. And boy have the done some very destructive things to the team over the years.
That doesn't mean the Poles should get any pass on any mistake he may have made. Just that I have sympathy for someone caught up in a bad situation. I do this because I have taken jobs with a lot of responsibility and found out shortly after starting the new job that many things were totally misrepresented at the interview(s) and there was no reasonable way to stay afloat. Where I was staring abject failure in the face. And it was not my fault. Once that happens to you, you get a little more even handed and forgiving when you evaluate people. If you find straightforward blame for bad decisions, you act. And you do it as quickly as possible to minimize the damage to the organization. Otherwise, you get the best information on what happened that you can, and then act on it.
+1 Two additional thoughts. First, personally, I'm just not wired to go to the negative with people or situations. As you put it, "I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate." Second, if the expectation is that we (or any NFL team) will have a GM who won't make significant mistakes in the beginning years - well, that guy doesn't exist. Never has. If the Bears fire Poles this quick, then good luck getting a quality GM to take a job here. Most GMs get a second swing at hiring a HC. And as far as the QB, Fields isn't even his QB. Surely you give a guy a chance to draft his first QB here, right?
Eberflus was on the Bears (McCaskey's) short list before Poles was hired. Could he have refused the job because of that? Sure. But in the real world he probably took the job hoping he could work with him.
I'm fine if Warren sees Poles as needing to be fired. But I'm not going to be disappointed if Warren believes Poles is our best way forward and keeps him.
Merely waxing theoretical/idiotic, but I still think part of hiring Poles was him either agreeing to hire off the short list, preferably Flus, or Poles was hired b/c he and Flus shared an agent and therefore put Flus in the front seat to get hired.
Arcums Razor though, likely, says that Poles was the one they wanted to hire, he got to pick his guy off the list, and his agent nudged him to get Flus who was also his agent, and was having some success in Indy on def, likely something George and the Mc's wanted the Bears to get back to.
+1 Two additional thoughts. First, personally, I'm just not wired to go to the negative with people or situations. As you put it, "I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate." Second, if the expectation is that we (or any NFL team) will have a GM who won't make significant mistakes in the beginning years - well, that guy doesn't exist. Never has. If the Bears fire Poles this quick, then good luck getting a quality GM to take a job here. Most GMs get a second swing at hiring a HC. And as far as the QB, Fields isn't even his QB. Surely you give a guy a chance to draft his first QB here, right?
Eberflus was on the Bears (McCaskey's) short list before Poles was hired. Could he have refused the job because of that? Sure. But in the real world he probably took the job hoping he could work with him.
I'm fine if Warren sees Poles as needing to be fired. But I'm not going to be disappointed if Warren believes Poles is our best way forward and keeps him.
Merely waxing theoretical/idiotic, but I still think part of hiring Poles was him either agreeing to hire off the short list, preferably Flus, or Poles was hired b/c he and Flus shared an agent and therefore put Flus in the front seat to get hired.
Arcums Razor though, likely, says that Poles was the one they wanted to hire, he got to pick his guy off the list, and his agent nudged him to get Flus who was also his agent, and was having some success in Indy on def, likely something George and the Mc's wanted the Bears to get back to.
This makes sense. Poles claimed that he knew Flus would be his guy as soon as he walked into the interview. Love at first sight.❤️
Had to give, what will be a high 7th, for a low 6th. That's how little teams feel about Chase after his showing here.
ESPN was talking about the media in Chicago compared to other cities. Think they mentioned Kruetz was stunned by the lack of media when he went to NO's. I wonder if Claypools antics garner Pitt a 2nd if he had been in NY, CHI, LA or Dallas.
Credit to Poles for getting anything for this guy after his antics this year. And for publicly admitting a mistake. At the time, it seemed like a good move. Hopefully he learned to dig deeper on a player's attitude. I guess Carter is an example that he's learned.
I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate. I don't mean this in any sort of adversarial way. I just see it as a waste of time, for me. Please do what you want to do if you enjoy it.
I agree with you about Poles in the corporate world. I've spent a ton of time in the corporate world myself and found the politics really ruthless and frankly disgusting. The term that I've used that anyone with even a passing relationship with a big screw-up may end up in what I called the "10 meter death zone" (a circle around the person or issue that means you get fired if you were caught in it, regardless of any actual culpability). Unless, of course, you were some big dudes buddy or relative or something. Then you might even get promoted. And I've seen some really good people let go.
I'm not defending Pole and I am not trying to support him either. I feel that with the coaching staff, it is an entirely different story. The whole group needs to go. And like your feeling about what might happen with Warren and Poles, I kind of feel for Poles as he probably presented with conditions for getting hired on that included Eberflus, or a short list where Eberflus was the lesser of the evils. This was way before Warren was ever in the picture and Ted Philips, Bill Polian, et al were all involved. A classic McCaskey s**t show. Something we have seen with disgusting regularity for decades. If you want to throw someone under the bus because the things they touched that ended up in disaster, ask yourself why Ted Philips is still on the Bears org chart. There has never been any accountability for any McCaskey or any of their inner circle. And boy have the done some very destructive things to the team over the years.
That doesn't mean the Poles should get any pass on any mistake he may have made. Just that I have sympathy for someone caught up in a bad situation. I do this because I have taken jobs with a lot of responsibility and found out shortly after starting the new job that many things were totally misrepresented at the interview(s) and there was no reasonable way to stay afloat. Where I was staring abject failure in the face. And it was not my fault. Once that happens to you, you get a little more even handed and forgiving when you evaluate people. If you find straightforward blame for bad decisions, you act. And you do it as quickly as possible to minimize the damage to the organization. Otherwise, you get the best information on what happened that you can, and then act on it.
+1 Two additional thoughts. First, personally, I'm just not wired to go to the negative with people or situations. As you put it, "I am not going to assume something that I cannot validate." Second, if the expectation is that we (or any NFL team) will have a GM who won't make significant mistakes in the beginning years - well, that guy doesn't exist. Never has. If the Bears fire Poles this quick, then good luck getting a quality GM to take a job here. Most GMs get a second swing at hiring a HC. And as far as the QB, Fields isn't even his QB. Surely you give a guy a chance to draft his first QB here, right?
Eberflus was on the Bears (McCaskey's) short list before Poles was hired. Could he have refused the job because of that? Sure. But in the real world he probably took the job hoping he could work with him.
I'm fine if Warren sees Poles as needing to be fired. But I'm not going to be disappointed if Warren believes Poles is our best way forward and keeps him.
A good coach can make a lot of GM's mistakes look good or forgettable. Case in point San Fran. Any other GM that gives up everything that they did for Lance is likely fired because that team will stink. But Shanny is so damn good he can make it work with Purdy.
A good coach can make a lot of GM's mistakes look good or forgettable. Case in point San Fran. Any other GM that gives up everything that they did for Lance is likely fired because that team will stink. But Shanny is so damn good he can make it work with Purdy.
That's a good point too. The Bears are the polar opposite situation now. So much inexperience everywhere you look. We have a first time GM, HC, both coordinators were new - and we had 30 new players on the roster this season. San Francisco not only has Shanny but they have incredible talent everywhere. I just keep thinking how we get from where we are to where a team like SF is (not just SF but the upper tier teams in the NFL).
