Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude?

JABF
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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 8:55:18 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Dec 6, 2016 8:55:18 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 5:53:13 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Dec 5, 2016 18:47:52 GMT -6 MartianBearsFan said:

I imagine if Trestman was still a coach with nothing but scraps the Bears will be worse than the Browns..

Have people forgotten how many injuries the bears went through in 2014? Don't get me wrong it wasn't this season bad, but it was still pretty bad; on top of that you had Briggs purposefully tanking.

I'm hardly trying to defend Trestman, he allowed that shit to happen, but it's not like Trestman's team didn't suffer key injuries; and that team wasn't even 1/2 as talented.

Definitely both teams had injuries. But it sounds like the team quit on Trestman. Sleeping through team meetings. We heard of the fighting and turmoil in the locker room. And most importantly on the field you could see guys just mailing it in. Nobody is mailing it in right now. It sounds like these guys are actually coming together and fighting through this nightmare season - as a team. Everything I have read about John Fox is that he is respected by coaches and players. Highly respected. Trestman? Not so much I think.

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hawkeye21
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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 9:34:09 GMT -6

Post by hawkeye21 on Dec 6, 2016 9:34:09 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 5:53:13 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Dec 5, 2016 18:47:52 GMT -6 MartianBearsFan said:

I imagine if Trestman was still a coach with nothing but scraps the Bears will be worse than the Browns..

Have people forgotten how many injuries the bears went through in 2014? Don't get me wrong it wasn't this season bad, but it was still pretty bad; on top of that you had Briggs purposefully tanking.

I'm hardly trying to defend Trestman, he allowed that shit to happen, but it's not like Trestman's team didn't suffer key injuries; and that team wasn't even 1/2 as talented.

They could have been 100% healthy and that team was still a train wreck. They may have won a couple more games but that locker room was a ticking time bomb. That's all on Trestman.

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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 9:36:07 GMT -6

Post by GrizzlyBear on Dec 6, 2016 9:36:07 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 5:53:13 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Have people forgotten how many injuries the bears went through in 2014? Don't get me wrong it wasn't this season bad, but it was still pretty bad; on top of that you had Briggs purposefully tanking.

I'm hardly trying to defend Trestman, he allowed that shit to happen, but it's not like Trestman's team didn't suffer key injuries; and that team wasn't even 1/2 as talented.

^^^This

Which is why I don't like that bs excuse. People better have a more reasonable explanation as to why Fox should coach another year. Injuries are part of the game and should never be used as an excuse for bad performance.

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riczaj01
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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 10:14:11 GMT -6 JABF likes this

Post by riczaj01 on Dec 6, 2016 10:14:11 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 8:55:18 GMT -6 JABF said:

Dec 6, 2016 5:53:13 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Have people forgotten how many injuries the bears went through in 2014? Don't get me wrong it wasn't this season bad, but it was still pretty bad; on top of that you had Briggs purposefully tanking.

I'm hardly trying to defend Trestman, he allowed that shit to happen, but it's not like Trestman's team didn't suffer key injuries; and that team wasn't even 1/2 as talented.

Definitely both teams had injuries. But it sounds like the team quit on Trestman. Sleeping through team meetings. We heard of the fighting and turmoil in the locker room. And most importantly on the field you could see guys just mailing it in. Nobody is mailing it in right now. It sounds like these guys are actually coming together and fighting through this nightmare season - as a team. Everything I have read about John Fox is that he is respected by coaches and players. Highly respected. Trestman? Not so much I think.

The team never started for Trestman, that was the beggining of the problem. that locker room didn't want another coach other then Lovie; and instead of getting rid of malcontents they let them stay; and Trestman wasn't just not the HC to deal w/that, he was worse b/c his policies allowed it to fester and run amok.

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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 10:24:25 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 10:24:25 GMT -6

Dec 5, 2016 13:31:56 GMT -6 jamaisvu said:

Trestman also dealt with a large amount of Veteran players on the backend of careers/contracts...many still too loyal to the man Trestman replaced.

While Fox has delt largely with young players on rookie contracts that cannot afford to skip meetings/practices or lay down and die when down three scores if they ever want to break six figures a year or even get a second contract.

Bingo! You beat me to it jamais. The make up of this team is wholly different than the team Trestman had and the biggest difference is on the defensive side of the ball.

Trestman had a very poor DC who Emery sought out to hire. Fox has Vic Fangio. Tucker's defense lacked it's greatest leader when Emery decided not to sign Urlacher to help with the transition and no one picked up that mantle. Fangio's defense has multiple leaders so that even with a few out the rest have picked up the role and kept them going.

Fox doesn't micro manage his players which helps with his popularity among them but his approach has also led to lax discipline in practices and on the field and a team who for the most part has been very poorly prepared to play most weeks. He often seems very out of touch with the specifics of his team and this isn't new either. It's a criticism that followed him here from Denver.

I make it no secret that I don't like his approach and that I can't see this team becoming a consistent winner under him. He's a 62 year old HC whose become more and more detached from the game than any HC with a young rebuilding team should ever be. That may help him to be more popular than Trestman was but eventually players get tired of losing. Another year of this and it won't be quite so peaceful around Halas Hall which is why I think we should move on from Fox now and let someone more qualified complete the rebuilding process. I believe based on his past history ultimately Fox will fail this time.

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hawkeye21
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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -6

Post by hawkeye21 on Dec 6, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 10:24:25 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Dec 5, 2016 13:31:56 GMT -6 jamaisvu said:

Trestman also dealt with a large amount of Veteran players on the backend of careers/contracts...many still too loyal to the man Trestman replaced.

While Fox has delt largely with young players on rookie contracts that cannot afford to skip meetings/practices or lay down and die when down three scores if they ever want to break six figures a year or even get a second contract.

Bingo! You beat me to it jamais. The make up of this team is wholly different than the team Trestman had and the biggest difference is on the defensive side of the ball.

Trestman had a very poor DC who Emery sought out to hire. Fox has Vic Fangio. Tucker's defense lacked it's greatest leader when Emery decided not to sign Urlacher to help with the transition and no one picked up that mantle. Fangio's defense has multiple leaders so that even with a few out the rest have picked up the role and kept them going.

Fox doesn't micro manage his players which helps with his popularity among them but his approach has also led to lax discipline in practices and on the field and a team who for the most part has been very poorly prepared to play most weeks. He often seems very out of touch with the specifics of his team and this isn't new either. It's a criticism that followed him here from Denver.

I make it no secret that I don't like his approach and that I can't see this team becoming a consistent winner under him. He's a 62 year old HC whose become more and more detached from the game than any HC with a young rebuilding team should ever be. That may help him to be more popular than Trestman was but eventually players get tired of losing. Another year of this and it won't be quite so peaceful around Halas Hall which is why I think we should move on from Fox now and let someone more qualified complete the rebuilding process. I believe based on his past history ultimately Fox will fail this time.

I agree about your thoughts on Fox so far. I haven't been pleased with him so far but that's me looking in from the outside. From what I hear coming from the inside they players and staff are happy. I think if somehow the Bears manage to win out or win three games it will drastically change everyone's opinions. These are going to be the most important games of the season as they have all three division teams left. I would be very happy with this team if they could beat all three division teams and only lost to the Redskins.

A 6-10 season while domination the division would get me really excited for next year. That's the goal for the rest of the year.

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jamaisvu
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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 11:30:12 GMT -6 via mobile

Post by jamaisvu on Dec 6, 2016 11:30:12 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

A 6-10 season while domination the division would get me really excited for next year. That's the goal for the rest of the year.

I wonder if there has ever been a NFL team to finish last in their division while owning the best division record.

The 2016 Chicago Bears could be a part of NFL History.

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hawkeye21
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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 11:35:10 GMT -6 JABF and jamaisvu like this

Post by hawkeye21 on Dec 6, 2016 11:35:10 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 11:30:12 GMT -6 jamaisvu said:

Dec 6, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

A 6-10 season while domination the division would get me really excited for next year. That's the goal for the rest of the year.

I wonder if there has ever been a NFL team to finish last in their division while owning the best division record.

The 2016 Chicago Bears could be a part of NFL History.

I know. Wouldn't that be a great way to finish the season? Most will just say the division is terrible but I would love to beat on all the division teams, it's been a while.

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jamaisvu
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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 11:47:08 GMT -6 via mobile JABF and hawkeye21 like this

Post by jamaisvu on Dec 6, 2016 11:47:08 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 11:35:10 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

Dec 6, 2016 11:30:12 GMT -6 jamaisvu said:

I wonder if there has ever been a NFL team to finish last in their division while owning the best division record.

The 2016 Chicago Bears could be a part of NFL History.

I know. Wouldn't that be a great way to finish the season? Most will just say the division is terrible but I would love to beat on all the division teams, it's been a while.

It would go a long way to save everyone's jobs too. Yes, it was a losing season, but 5-1 in the division might be their best mark since the Super Bowl Run.

Then just learn to beat anyone else.

We also have not won on the road in over a year now...so a couple of those would be nice. Spoiling the mood in Detroit would be a great start.

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Last Edit: Dec 6, 2016 11:49:25 GMT -6 by jamaisvu

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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude? Dec 6, 2016 15:02:49 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 15:02:49 GMT -6

Dec 6, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -6 hawkeye21 said:

Dec 6, 2016 10:24:25 GMT -6 @soulman said:

Bingo! You beat me to it jamais. The make up of this team is wholly different than the team Trestman had and the biggest difference is on the defensive side of the ball.

Trestman had a very poor DC who Emery sought out to hire. Fox has Vic Fangio. Tucker's defense lacked it's greatest leader when Emery decided not to sign Urlacher to help with the transition and no one picked up that mantle. Fangio's defense has multiple leaders so that even with a few out the rest have picked up the role and kept them going.

Fox doesn't micro manage his players which helps with his popularity among them but his approach has also led to lax discipline in practices and on the field and a team who for the most part has been very poorly prepared to play most weeks. He often seems very out of touch with the specifics of his team and this isn't new either. It's a criticism that followed him here from Denver.

I make it no secret that I don't like his approach and that I can't see this team becoming a consistent winner under him. He's a 62 year old HC whose become more and more detached from the game than any HC with a young rebuilding team should ever be. That may help him to be more popular than Trestman was but eventually players get tired of losing. Another year of this and it won't be quite so peaceful around Halas Hall which is why I think we should move on from Fox now and let someone more qualified complete the rebuilding process. I believe based on his past history ultimately Fox will fail this time.

I agree about your thoughts on Fox so far. I haven't been pleased with him so far but that's me looking in from the outside. From what I hear coming from the inside they players and staff are happy. I think if somehow the Bears manage to win out or win three games it will drastically change everyone's opinions. These are going to be the most important games of the season as they have all three division teams left. I would be very happy with this team if they could beat all three division teams and only lost to the Redskins.

A 6-10 season while domination the division would get me really excited for next year. That's the goal for the rest of the year.

The players weren't exactly unhappy with him in Denver either Hawk as evidenced by Trevathan's excitement and willingness to play for him in Chicago. It was Elway who was unhappy with quite a few things beginning with the casual attitude Fox had preparing for a SB game they got blown out in and culminating in going one and done the next year in the playoffs.

Fox didn't seem to get that just winning the AFC West was not an ultimate goal for Elway and the Broncos. It's that casual attitude and lack of an imperative to win that also comes across to me in his pressers coupled with his lack of in depth knowledge about what's really going on with his team and what to do about it that I can't take.

Whether or not winning a few more games changes anyone else's opinion or not won't change mine. I'll say it again. John Fox is IMHO a bad fit for this team. He won in Denver because he had some major defensive talent supplied to him via FA, a HOF QB, two excellent OCs, and enough vet talent to keep the rookies on the bench.

He doesn't have that now and he's not producing with what he does have. To be honest I don't see us even winning more then one of the next four games if that and his two year record will leave him with the second worst record in Bears history. Only the Abe Gibron version led by Bobby Douglass will have been worse. I'm sorry but in my book after two shots at progress when you haven't shown any you don't get one more. You already had that.

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Fox & Trestman Teams. Why the different attitude?

Post by JABF on Dec 6, 2016 8:55:18 GMT -6

Post by hawkeye21 on Dec 6, 2016 9:34:09 GMT -6

Post by GrizzlyBear on Dec 6, 2016 9:36:07 GMT -6

Post by riczaj01 on Dec 6, 2016 10:14:11 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 10:24:25 GMT -6

Post by hawkeye21 on Dec 6, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -6

Post by jamaisvu on Dec 6, 2016 11:30:12 GMT -6

Post by hawkeye21 on Dec 6, 2016 11:35:10 GMT -6

Post by jamaisvu on Dec 6, 2016 11:47:08 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 15:02:49 GMT -6