1. I don’t know whether there is similar research on WRs. There probably is. But at least for DE, the 3-cone has SOME predictive value.
2. Apparently you think that because Mooney can run fast in a straight line for 10 yards, he would beat Dell in 3-cone. Maehle is pretty slow at 10 yards straight run, but nevertheless ran the fastest ever 3-cone.
3. Edit: post-Super Bowl. Kadarius Toney did a really quick stop and change of direction on his TD catch and again on his big punt return. I thought, “I gotta check his 3-cone time.” It was 6.88. Same as JJ Watt.
Some might suggest that Toney can't change direction very well based on that info. Others might say that the skills needed for a good 3 cone drill aren't really that important for a good receiver.
One of the articles I read was about J. Edelman and how well he could run a 5-yd. “out” route. That is basically sprinting 5 yards and then turn on a dime. Edelman was very fast in 3-cone. Brady always had a guy like him or Beasley or Danny Amendola, because Belichick deliberately looked for them. The article said he has always used the 3-cone drill, not the 40, to evaluate WRs. I really want a slot receiver like that for Fields. I don’t know whether Dell is the guy, but I want a precision route runner for Fields.
Some might suggest that Toney can't change direction very well based on that info. Others might say that the skills needed for a good 3 cone drill aren't really that important for a good receiver.
One of the articles I read was about J. Edelman and how well he could run a 5-yd. “out” route. That is basically sprinting 5 yards and then turn on a dime. Edelman was very fast in 3-cone. Brady always had a guy like him or Beasley or Danny Amendola, because Belichick deliberately looked for them. The article said he has always used the 3-cone drill, not the 40, to evaluate WRs. I really want a slot receiver like that for Fields. I don’t know whether Dell is the guy, but I want a precision route runner for Fields.
And yet Edelman never played receiver until he got to the pro's...he was a QB in college. His senior year he threw for over 1000 yards and ran for over 1000 yards. Clearly he was pretty good at change of direction, and I'd argue that the 3 cone drill is a better tool to analyze a running back than a receiver for all the reasons I already mentioned. As I stated, receivers are basically no longer participating in the 3 cone drill. There's a reason for that.
You know what I'd use to evaluate receivers...and really just about any other player? Actual film.
One of the articles I read was about J. Edelman and how well he could run a 5-yd. “out” route. That is basically sprinting 5 yards and then turn on a dime. Edelman was very fast in 3-cone. Brady always had a guy like him or Beasley or Danny Amendola, because Belichick deliberately looked for them. The article said he has always used the 3-cone drill, not the 40, to evaluate WRs. I really want a slot receiver like that for Fields. I don’t know whether Dell is the guy, but I want a precision route runner for Fields.
And yet Edelman never played receiver until he got to the pro's...he was a QB in college. His senior year he threw for over 1000 yards and ran for over 1000 yards. Clearly he was pretty good at change of direction, and I'd argue that the 3 cone drill is a better tool to analyze a running back than a receiver for all the reasons I already mentioned. As I stated, receivers are basically no longer participating in the 3 cone drill. There's a reason for that.
You know what I'd use to evaluate receivers...and really just about any other player? Actual film.
I looked up JaMarr Chase. He ran 6.96. I remember the first time I saw him run that 5-yd “out” route in a game, l just said Wow!! Bateman also ran 6.95. If I were a WR, I would skip it unless I was confident I could run around 7.0, and not many of them can do that. I hope Dell and some other good route runners will do it. Just curious. I agree it’s no substitute for looking at game tape. Anyway, how important is it for Fields development to get a great route running slot receiver?
And yet Edelman never played receiver until he got to the pro's...he was a QB in college. His senior year he threw for over 1000 yards and ran for over 1000 yards. Clearly he was pretty good at change of direction, and I'd argue that the 3 cone drill is a better tool to analyze a running back than a receiver for all the reasons I already mentioned. As I stated, receivers are basically no longer participating in the 3 cone drill. There's a reason for that.
You know what I'd use to evaluate receivers...and really just about any other player? Actual film.
I looked up JaMarr Chase. He ran 6.96. I remember the first time I saw him run that 5-yd “out” route in a game, l just said Wow!! Bateman also ran 6.95. If I were a WR, I would skip it unless I was confident I could run around 7.0, and not many of them can do that. I hope Dell and some other good route runners will do it. Just curious. I agree it’s no substitute for looking at game tape. Anyway, how important is it for Fields development to get a great route running slot receiver?
Yeah, last year only 13 receivers out of 40 ran the 3 cone, and only 2 ran sub 7 seconds. Neither of those 2 did anything worth a damn this season, the only one I know about, Bo Melton, is because he played at Rutgers here in NJ.
How important is a good route runner to Fields development? Thats a tough one to quantify. I would just say that a good receiver in general is important to his development, whether its one that wins on physicality or one that wins from running great routes, influencing defenders, and knowing where open spaces are within a zone. At the end of the day, the biggest thing is that Fields has to be able to trust them to get the job done. I think that was a huge issue. He trusted Mooney, and to some level Kmet...but after that I don't think he trusted any of those guys...with good reason. Its hard to pull the trigger or throw with anticipation if I can't trust the receiver will be there or they'll make the play for me. Hopefully whoever they add will get with Fields, Mooney, Kmet and I assume Claypool for a full off season together running routes and catching passes so Fields can really learn how they do things and how they need the ball delivered to them. I think that is going to help a TON. Plus Fields will have a greater comfort level in the offense.
I looked up JaMarr Chase. He ran 6.96. I remember the first time I saw him run that 5-yd “out” route in a game, l just said Wow!! Bateman also ran 6.95. If I were a WR, I would skip it unless I was confident I could run around 7.0, and not many of them can do that. I hope Dell and some other good route runners will do it. Just curious. I agree it’s no substitute for looking at game tape. Anyway, how important is it for Fields development to get a great route running slot receiver?
Yeah, last year only 13 receivers out of 40 ran the 3 cone, and only 2 ran sub 7 seconds. Neither of those 2 did anything worth a damn this season, the only one I know about, Bo Melton, is because he played at Rutgers here in NJ.
How important is a good route runner to Fields development? Thats a tough one to quantify. I would just say that a good receiver in general is important to his development, whether its one that wins on physicality or one that wins from running great routes, influencing defenders, and knowing where open spaces are within a zone. At the end of the day, the biggest thing is that Fields has to be able to trust them to get the job done. I think that was a huge issue. He trusted Mooney, and to some level Kmet...but after that I don't think he trusted any of those guys...with good reason. Its hard to pull the trigger or throw with anticipation if I can't trust the receiver will be there or they'll make the play for me. Hopefully whoever they add will get with Fields, Mooney, Kmet and I assume Claypool for a full off season together running routes and catching passes so Fields can really learn how they do things and how they need the ball delivered to them. I think that is going to help a TON. Plus Fields will have a greater comfort level in the offense.
Here is why I think we need a great route runner on this team. We already have guys like Mooney and Claypool (and even EQ) who can run 4.4 and go deep. We don’t need any more of that. What we don’t have is a master slot receiver like Edelman who can run those quick outs and slants to pick up the first down to move the chains on third down and 6 to sustain drives. It would also give Fields a quick target to avoid getting sacked 50 times. Yes, trust has to be earned, but, if we can get a guy like that, he’s going to soon become a favored target.
It takes more than a fast 3-cone to become a great slot receiver on those shorter routes, but the ability to accelerate fast and change direction fast is physically one of the tools of the trade. The 3-cone tests that ability, and that is why I am interested in seeing how Dell and others perform.
How important is a good route runner to Fields development? Thats a tough one to quantify. I would just say that a good receiver in general is important to his development, whether its one that wins on physicality or one that wins from running great routes, influencing defenders, and knowing where open spaces are within a zone. At the end of the day, the biggest thing is that Fields has to be able to trust them to get the job done. I think that was a huge issue. He trusted Mooney, and to some level Kmet...but after that I don't think he trusted any of those guys...with good reason. Its hard to pull the trigger or throw with anticipation if I can't trust the receiver will be there or they'll make the play for me. Hopefully whoever they add will get with Fields, Mooney, Kmet and I assume Claypool for a full off season together running routes and catching passes so Fields can really learn how they do things and how they need the ball delivered to them. I think that is going to help a TON. Plus Fields will have a greater comfort level in the offense.
That is the bottom line. Fields will perform best if he has continuity with decent receivers and with the same O scheme. This is one reason why I'm hoping Poles can set the WR unit for Fields now. This is Fields 3rd year. He has had 2 offense schemes in 2 years. Two offensive coordinators. And he still doesn't have a WR corps set... Mooney is pretty much "it" so far. Can't change the past... I'm not complaining, but just pointing out that it would be good to get continuity now, in this 3rd season, so some chemistry and trust can develop. Do that, and improve the blocking, and I think we will see good things from Fields. This needs to begin this year. Let's not wait to 2024.
How important is a good route runner to Fields development? Thats a tough one to quantify. I would just say that a good receiver in general is important to his development, whether its one that wins on physicality or one that wins from running great routes, influencing defenders, and knowing where open spaces are within a zone. At the end of the day, the biggest thing is that Fields has to be able to trust them to get the job done. I think that was a huge issue. He trusted Mooney, and to some level Kmet...but after that I don't think he trusted any of those guys...with good reason. Its hard to pull the trigger or throw with anticipation if I can't trust the receiver will be there or they'll make the play for me. Hopefully whoever they add will get with Fields, Mooney, Kmet and I assume Claypool for a full off season together running routes and catching passes so Fields can really learn how they do things and how they need the ball delivered to them. I think that is going to help a TON. Plus Fields will have a greater comfort level in th
That is the bottom line. Fields will perform best if he has continuity with decent receivers and with the same O scheme. This is one reason why I'm hoping Poles can set the WR unit for Fields now. This is Fields 3rd year. He has had 2 offense schemes in 2 years. Two offensive coordinators. And he still doesn't have a WR corps set... Mooney is pretty much "it" so far. Can't change the past... I'm not complaining, but just pointing out that it would be good to get continuity now, in this 3rd season, so some chemistry and trust can develop. Do that, and improve the blocking, and I think we will see good things from Fields. This needs to begin this year. Let's not wait to 2024.
I agree 100%. Get a veteran WR1 before the draft and/or draft WR in second round….can’t wait til 2024.
Yeah, last year only 13 receivers out of 40 ran the 3 cone, and only 2 ran sub 7 seconds. Neither of those 2 did anything worth a damn this season, the only one I know about, Bo Melton, is because he played at Rutgers here in NJ.
How important is a good route runner to Fields development? Thats a tough one to quantify. I would just say that a good receiver in general is important to his development, whether its one that wins on physicality or one that wins from running great routes, influencing defenders, and knowing where open spaces are within a zone. At the end of the day, the biggest thing is that Fields has to be able to trust them to get the job done. I think that was a huge issue. He trusted Mooney, and to some level Kmet...but after that I don't think he trusted any of those guys...with good reason. Its hard to pull the trigger or throw with anticipation if I can't trust the receiver will be there or they'll make the play for me. Hopefully whoever they add will get with Fields, Mooney, Kmet and I assume Claypool for a full off season together running routes and catching passes so Fields can really learn how they do things and how they need the ball delivered to them. I think that is going to help a TON. Plus Fields will have a greater comfort level in the offense.
Here is why I think we need a great route runner on this team. We already have guys like Mooney and Claypool (and even EQ) who can run 4.4 and go deep. We don’t need any more of that. What we don’t have is a master slot receiver like Edelman who can run those quick outs and slants to pick up the first down to move the chains on third down and 6 to sustain drives. It would also give Fields a quick target to avoid getting sacked 50 times. Yes, trust has to be earned, but, if we can get a guy like that, he’s going to soon become a favored target.
It takes more than a fast 3-cone to become a great slot receiver on those shorter routes, but the ability to accelerate fast and change direction fast is physically one of the tools of the trade. The 3-cone tests that ability, and that is why I am interested in seeing how Dell and others perform.
Except we kind of have that guy in Mooney. And I think you also have to get your expectations of the type of player Fields is in check a bit. Fields is not a dump off guy, he's a big game hunter who is going to use his physical abilities to extend plays. If you're expecting 20 check downs a game I think you're going to be sorely disappointed for the large majority of Fields time here.
You want Dell? Dell is gonna run a 4.3. Should we not draft him because "we have guys that can do that"?
Finally, please stop arguing with me about what the 3 cone tests. I know what it allegedly tests...I prepare guys to do well on the test. I can with great certainty tell you it doesn't really test the things you think it tests, except for acceleration in the first 3 steps. Here's a dude running a hand timed 6.53 3 cone(so add at least .2 seconds on to the time to adjust for what the laser time would be): ...if he were running an out route with those breaks into the out he'd be covered 10 times out of 10.
This video shows Jeff Maehles record 3 cone for a WR at the combine:
Here is why I think we need a great route runner on this team. We already have guys like Mooney and Claypool (and even EQ) who can run 4.4 and go deep. We don’t need any more of that. What we don’t have is a master slot receiver like Edelman who can run those quick outs and slants to pick up the first down to move the chains on third down and 6 to sustain drives. It would also give Fields a quick target to avoid getting sacked 50 times. Yes, trust has to be earned, but, if we can get a guy like that, he’s going to soon become a favored target.
It takes more than a fast 3-cone to become a great slot receiver on those shorter routes, but the ability to accelerate fast and change direction fast is physically one of the tools of the trade. The 3-cone tests that ability, and that is why I am interested in seeing how Dell and others perform.
Except we kind of have that guy in Mooney. And I think you also have to get your expectations of the type of player Fields is in check a bit. Fields is not a dump off guy, he's a big game hunter who is going to use his physical abilities to extend plays. If you're expecting 20 check downs a game I think you're going to be sorely disappointed for the large majority of Fields time here.
You want Dell? Dell is gonna run a 4.3. Should we not draft him because "we have guys that can do that"?
Finally, please stop arguing with me about what the 3 cone tests. I know what it allegedly tests...I prepare guys to do well on the test. I can with great certainty tell you it doesn't really test the things you think it tests, except for acceleration in the first 3 steps. Here's a dude running a hand timed 6.53 3 cone(so add at least .2 seconds on to the time to adjust for what the laser time would be): ...if he were running an out route with those breaks into the out he'd be covered 10 times out of 10.
This video shows Jeff Maehles record 3 cone for a WR at the combine:
You telling me those would be good out routes?
I want a guy who is much better than Mooney on short routes to pick up first down on third and 6. He would be the primary receiver on the play, not a check down. Great route runners like the Pats had with Edelman, Beasley, Amendola were Brady’s go-to guys to move the chains on third down.
If all Dell could do is run 4.3 in a straight line, we already have guys who can do that. Poles drafted one.
Running a great out route requires more than just fast acceleration for 3 steps. So does running a fast time in 3-cone. Both require the ability to quickly change direction. You should be training guys to do more with their bodies than accelerate in a straight line.
Except we kind of have that guy in Mooney. And I think you also have to get your expectations of the type of player Fields is in check a bit. Fields is not a dump off guy, he's a big game hunter who is going to use his physical abilities to extend plays. If you're expecting 20 check downs a game I think you're going to be sorely disappointed for the large majority of Fields time here.
You want Dell? Dell is gonna run a 4.3. Should we not draft him because "we have guys that can do that"?
Finally, please stop arguing with me about what the 3 cone tests. I know what it allegedly tests...I prepare guys to do well on the test. I can with great certainty tell you it doesn't really test the things you think it tests, except for acceleration in the first 3 steps. Here's a dude running a hand timed 6.53 3 cone(so add at least .2 seconds on to the time to adjust for what the laser time would be): ...if he were running an out route with those breaks into the out he'd be covered 10 times out of 10.
This video shows Jeff Maehles record 3 cone for a WR at the combine:
You telling me those would be good out routes?
I want a guy who is much better than Mooney on short routes to pick up first down on third and 6. He would be the primary receiver on the play, not a check down. Great route runners like the Pats had with Edelman, Beasley, Amendola were Brady’s go-to guys to move the chains on third down.
If all Dell could do is run 4.3 in a straight line, we already have guys who can do that. Poles drafted one.
Running a great out route requires more than just fast acceleration for 3 steps. So does running a fast time in 3-cone. Both require the ability to quickly change direction. You should be training guys to do more with their bodies than accelerate in a straight line.
LOL...thanks for the advice. I think our results speak for themselves..we've had several guys put up VERY good numbers in the 3 cone. Just a tip for you...virtually every change of direction in the 3 cone happens within the first 3 to 4 steps either at the start or after the first change of direction. If its taking you more than 3 or 4 steps to cover 5 yards you aren't gonna make it!