He cost them nothing, but time, they put their money into him and started looking elsewhere for lower cost players.
Then he didn't get signed and your better options at other positions were signed. Yes he did cost them b/c of the contract they offered him.
So, essentially you're saying Poles deserves criticism because his FA signee at DT failed his physical. OK, that's incredibly minor but whatevs.
Everything else I'm seeing falls into the category of: "the team is bad this year (as everyone and his brother fully knew it would be), I'm just mad about it, and can't let it go".
Let's move on. The upcoming offseason is the real start of the Poles-era. Last offseason was just the Pace-cleanup patrol.
no not a FA, his FIRST, highest PRIORITY signee. the guy when the team had limited cap he targeted first and foremost, while foregoing helping his 2nd year qb who need OL and WR help.
it was dumb, short sighted, and near blind and it's b/c of who he hired for HC.
He cost them nothing, but time, they put their money into him and started looking elsewhere for lower cost players.
Then he didn't get signed and your better options at other positions were signed. Yes he did cost them b/c of the contract they offered him.
So, essentially you're saying Poles deserves criticism because his FA signee at DT failed his physical. OK, that's incredibly minor but whatevs.
Everything else I'm seeing falls into the category of: "the team is bad this year (as everyone and his brother fully knew it would be), I'm just mad about it, and can't let it go".
Let's move on. The upcoming offseason is the real start of the Poles-era. Last offseason was just the Pace-cleanup patrol.
I’ll answer the question about what better he could have done in FA and the draft. There were better WRs in FA than EQ and Pringle or Moore.
He missed in the third round of the draft. V. Jones should not go that high. Abe Lucas would have solved our RT position. I watch all Seahawks games, and he is as good — or better — than Cross (drafted #9 in first round).
Yeah, I think thats a bunch of crap from Dilfer because guys on the team couldn't do it.
IDN about Dilfer, but I just hope Claypool works out, because I don't want to consume another high draft pick to get WR2.
Happy TG. Wife and I have to negotiate what to have for TG dinner every year, because she is a big-time carnivore and I am vegan. LOL.
LOL, just went through that due to me being vegetarian and my daughter is vegan. Everyone else at the family gathering wais a carnivore. My daughter and I feasted on the sides though and it was really good. Hey, I was telling my son about you being a retired professor. He is a fairly new professor and was curious what area you were in at ND. He is at the University of Houston.
IDN about Dilfer, but I just hope Claypool works out, because I don't want to consume another high draft pick to get WR2.
Happy TG. Wife and I have to negotiate what to have for TG dinner every year, because she is a big-time carnivore and I am vegan. LOL.
LOL, just went through that due to me being vegetarian and my daughter is vegan. Everyone else at the family gathering wais a carnivore. My daughter and I feasted on the sides though and it was really good. Hey, I was telling my son about you being a retired professor. He is a fairly new professor and was curious what area you were in at ND. He is at the University of Houston.
LOL, just went through that due to me being vegetarian and my daughter is vegan. Everyone else at the family gathering wais a carnivore. My daughter and I feasted on the sides though and it was really good. Hey, I was telling my son about you being a retired professor. He is a fairly new professor and was curious what area you were in at ND. He is at the University of Houston.
I'm gonna go over the "good players" and "dug himself a hole" myths one final time.
Mack: probably the best of the bunch but he was north of 30yo, had a huge contract, and had been hurt a good chunk of the prior two seasons, both of which weren't exactly great years for him.
Hicks: was well north of 30yo, also coming off an injury season, and hadn't been the same player he was in 2017-18 for several seasons. BTW, this year he has 9 tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 forced fumbles.
Trevathan: was well north of 30yo, also injured, massively overpaid, and hadn't been good in 2 years. BTW, he's out of the league! No one wanted him after being released.
Goldman: was never the same player post-covid he had been in 2017-19. He RETIRED and is out of the league.
These above are the "good players" Poles "dug himself a hole" by moving on from (in return for picks and future cap space). The only one who could have conceivably added substantial value to 2022 was Mack and he had a hefty price tag. None of the other 3 would have been anything more than a complete waste of resources this season. And none of them projected to be around and still playing at a high level several years down the road when the team was finally ready to compete after a full teardown & rebuild.
Are we done with this now? Shaking a fist at a passing cloud doesn't change the fact that these guys were key elements of a defensive window that CLOSED about 2019-20 when Trubisky proved himself a total bust. These guys weren't part of the future for a team starting over with a brand new QB draft pick.
As for 2024, yeah I agree I want to be much improved and at least in the running for a wildcard next season. But I'm realistic that we have a ton of holes (Pace left the cupboards bare, especially on offense) and it may take a little longer. Point is, I'm not criticizing Poles for the team being shit this year. There was very little chance it wouldn't be. We started this season in September with one of the weakest rosters in the NFL, a fact that many national sportswriters repeatedly pointed out. As Bears fans, we may not have wanted to admit that, but we see clearly now how true it was.
We are never going to agree on this, and I would add Nichols, Quinn, Smith,Robinson, and Daniels to my list. All these guys are better players than these cast-offs Poles has brought in to replace them. That’s not a myth. He has made this team worse for the sake of having $100+ million cap space. This level of cap space is unprecedented in NFL history, even allowing for cap space inflation. The hole was already deep and he made it a lot deeper.
James Daniels is not better than Jenkins at guard. Not even close. Quinn and Smith were on this team for half the season...big difference they made.
I'm gonna go over the "good players" and "dug himself a hole" myths one final time.
Mack: probably the best of the bunch but he was north of 30yo, had a huge contract, and had been hurt a good chunk of the prior two seasons, both of which weren't exactly great years for him.
Hicks: was well north of 30yo, also coming off an injury season, and hadn't been the same player he was in 2017-18 for several seasons. BTW, this year he has 9 tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 forced fumbles.
Trevathan: was well north of 30yo, also injured, massively overpaid, and hadn't been good in 2 years. BTW, he's out of the league! No one wanted him after being released.
Goldman: was never the same player post-covid he had been in 2017-19. He RETIRED and is out of the league.
These above are the "good players" Poles "dug himself a hole" by moving on from (in return for picks and future cap space). The only one who could have conceivably added substantial value to 2022 was Mack and he had a hefty price tag. None of the other 3 would have been anything more than a complete waste of resources this season. And none of them projected to be around and still playing at a high level several years down the road when the team was finally ready to compete after a full teardown & rebuild.
Are we done with this now? Shaking a fist at a passing cloud doesn't change the fact that these guys were key elements of a defensive window that CLOSED about 2019-20 when Trubisky proved himself a total bust. These guys weren't part of the future for a team starting over with a brand new QB draft pick.
As for 2024, yeah I agree I want to be much improved and at least in the running for a wildcard next season. But I'm realistic that we have a ton of holes (Pace left the cupboards bare, especially on offense) and it may take a little longer. Point is, I'm not criticizing Poles for the team being shit this year. There was very little chance it wouldn't be. We started this season in September with one of the weakest rosters in the NFL, a fact that many national sportswriters repeatedly pointed out. As Bears fans, we may not have wanted to admit that, but we see clearly now how true it was.
We are never going to agree on this, and I would add Nichols, Quinn, Smith,Robinson, and Daniels to my list. All these guys are better players than these cast-offs Poles has brought in to replace them. That’s not a myth. He has made this team worse for the sake of having $100+ million cap space. This level of cap space is unprecedented in NFL history, even allowing for cap space inflation. The hole was already deep and he made it a lot deeper.
Nichols and Daniels were two guys I thought might stick. But Poles moved on and they haven't been missed. Neither has been anything more than a JAG with their new teams.
Robinson sulked and loafed almost all year last season. He had 400 yards and 1 TD. The guy clearly didn't want to be here. You gonna pay a guy like that $15m+? He has 339 yards so far this year on a 3-7 team.
You honestly think Quinn was a building block for the future? You can't be serious. He's 33yo and his best days are clearly behind him.
We have been over the Roquan situation ad nauseum. He wasn't gonna sign here in 2023 for a price Poles was willing to pay so no point keeping him.
I know this sounds crazy but when you do a teardown and rebuild, you start with tearing things down. That means you jettison players who are older, expensive, past their prime, injured, malingering, not in the longer-range plan, etc., etc., etc. You sell off assets for draft picks and to clear out cap space. I was screaming here for the Bears to start this process in 2020 or 2021 at the latest when it was obvious Trubisky wasn't gonna be the guy and the defense window was closing. Had ownership not been so damn stubborn and thick in the head, we would be in year 2 or 3 of the rebuild process by now instead of year 1.
You seem to be in denial about what a teardown/rebuild is. THIS is what it is.
I know it's painful but keeping the players you mentioned would have only prolonged the agony. The team was already in severe decline in 2019-2021 no matter how badly some wanted to deny it.
We are never going to agree on this, and I would add Nichols, Quinn, Smith,Robinson, and Daniels to my list. All these guys are better players than these cast-offs Poles has brought in to replace them. That’s not a myth. He has made this team worse for the sake of having $100+ million cap space. This level of cap space is unprecedented in NFL history, even allowing for cap space inflation. The hole was already deep and he made it a lot deeper.
Nichols and Daniels were two guys I thought might stick. But Poles moved on and they haven't been missed. Neither has been anything more than a JAG with their new teams.
Robinson sulked and loafed almost all year last season. He had 400 yards and 1 TD. The guy clearly didn't want to be here. You gonna pay a guy like that $15m+? He has 339 yards so far this year on a 3-7 team.
You honestly think Quinn was a building block for the future? You can't be serious. He's 33yo and his best days are clearly behind him.
We have been over the Roquan situation ad nauseum. He wasn't gonna sign here in 2023 for a price Poles was willing to pay so no point keeping him.
I know this sounds crazy but when you do a teardown and rebuild, you start with tearing things down. That means you jettison players who are older, expensive, past their prime, injured, malingering, not in the longer-range plan, etc., etc., etc. You sell off assets for draft picks and to clear out cap space. I was screaming here for the Bears to start this process in 2020 or 2021 at the latest when it was obvious Trubisky wasn't gonna be the guy and the defense window was closing. Had ownership not been so damn stubborn and thick in the head, we would be in year 2 or 3 of the rebuild process by now instead of year 1.
You seem to be in denial about what a teardown/rebuild is. THIS is what it is.
I know it's painful but keeping the players you mentioned would have only prolonged the agony. The team was already in severe decline in 2019-2021 no matter how badly some wanted to deny it.
And you are in denial that this is biggest “tear down” in NFL history. There were 5 teams in 2021 with worse records than Bears and 8 with worse point differentials (a better indicator of the strength of the roster). Any of these GMs could have done what Poles did. They did not. Nobody has EVER done it on this scale ($100+ million), not even remotely close. Let’s talk about that.