So, essentially you're saying Poles deserves criticism because his FA signee at DT failed his physical. OK, that's incredibly minor but whatevs.
Everything else I'm seeing falls into the category of: "the team is bad this year (as everyone and his brother fully knew it would be), I'm just mad about it, and can't let it go".
Let's move on. The upcoming offseason is the real start of the Poles-era. Last offseason was just the Pace-cleanup patrol.
no not a FA, his FIRST, highest PRIORITY signee. the guy when the team had limited cap he targeted first and foremost, while foregoing helping his 2nd year qb who need OL and WR help.
it was dumb, short sighted, and near blind and it's b/c of who he hired for HC.
Been over this a million times, dude.
Christian Kirk reset the FA market for WRs on day 1 last March when Jacksonville massively overpaid for him. I know of him well as he was drafted by and played for the Cardinals who I also follow. It was a huge overpay for a "B" quality player.
So WHO SPECIFICALLY did you want Poles to sign?
JuJu is about the only reasonable option I can think of. Everyone else available in FA last year was a JAG.
It wasn't coming from Dilfer. If you think that you really weren't paying attention.
Davids post LITERALLY says "they asked Dilfer"...but ok.
Correct. It’s on YouTube. I am watching the Vikings game. Hockenson already has 25 receptions in his first 4 games with the Vikings. The Lions were nuts to let the Vikes get him, and WE will be paying the price for years to come.
I'm gonna go over the "good players" and "dug himself a hole" myths one final time.
Mack: probably the best of the bunch but he was north of 30yo, had a huge contract, and had been hurt a good chunk of the prior two seasons, both of which weren't exactly great years for him.
Hicks: was well north of 30yo, also coming off an injury season, and hadn't been the same player he was in 2017-18 for several seasons. BTW, this year he has 9 tackles, 0 sacks, and 0 forced fumbles.
Trevathan: was well north of 30yo, also injured, massively overpaid, and hadn't been good in 2 years. BTW, he's out of the league! No one wanted him after being released.
Goldman: was never the same player post-covid he had been in 2017-19. He RETIRED and is out of the league.
These above are the "good players" Poles "dug himself a hole" by moving on from (in return for picks and future cap space). The only one who could have conceivably added substantial value to 2022 was Mack and he had a hefty price tag. None of the other 3 would have been anything more than a complete waste of resources this season. And none of them projected to be around and still playing at a high level several years down the road when the team was finally ready to compete after a full teardown & rebuild.
Are we done with this now? Shaking a fist at a passing cloud doesn't change the fact that these guys were key elements of a defensive window that CLOSED about 2019-20 when Trubisky proved himself a total bust. These guys weren't part of the future for a team starting over with a brand new QB draft pick.
As for 2024, yeah I agree I want to be much improved and at least in the running for a wildcard next season. But I'm realistic that we have a ton of holes (Pace left the cupboards bare, especially on offense) and it may take a little longer. Point is, I'm not criticizing Poles for the team being shit this year. There was very little chance it wouldn't be. We started this season in September with one of the weakest rosters in the NFL, a fact that many national sportswriters repeatedly pointed out. As Bears fans, we may not have wanted to admit that, but we see clearly now how true it was.
We are never going to agree on this, and I would add Nichols, Quinn, Smith,Robinson, and Daniels to my list. All these guys are better players than these cast-offs Poles has brought in to replace them. That’s not a myth. He has made this team worse for the sake of having $100+ million cap space. This level of cap space is unprecedented in NFL history, even allowing for cap space inflation. The hole was already deep and he made it a lot deeper.
Come on David. We're in a rebuild cycle. None of those players fit the future of what the bears are trying to do. Heck Quinn alone is 32 years old. He is no future to us. Even when he was here he was doing horrible.
Of course this team is going to be worse off without them for this season. That's the point. In the future, we should be having a competing team. This should of happen back in 2020 if not 2021 when everyone knew Nagy and Trubisky weren't the answer. Instead ownership was cheap about letting them go.
no not a FA, his FIRST, highest PRIORITY signee. the guy when the team had limited cap he targeted first and foremost, while foregoing helping his 2nd year qb who need OL and WR help.
it was dumb, short sighted, and near blind and it's b/c of who he hired for HC.
Been over this a million times, dude.
Christian Kirk reset the FA market for WRs on day 1 last March when Jacksonville massively overpaid for him. I know of him well as he was drafted by and played for the Cardinals who I also follow. It was a huge overpay for a "B" quality player.
So WHO SPECIFICALLY did you want Poles to sign?
JuJu is about the only reasonable option I can think of. Everyone else available in FA last year was a JAG.
I’ll take JuJu on the outside and Jarvis Landry in the slot. Better than all the “dogshit WRs” (quoting butkus) Poles brought in who can’t run precision routes or catch the damn ball.
Nichols and Daniels were two guys I thought might stick. But Poles moved on and they haven't been missed. Neither has been anything more than a JAG with their new teams.
Robinson sulked and loafed almost all year last season. He had 400 yards and 1 TD. The guy clearly didn't want to be here. You gonna pay a guy like that $15m+? He has 339 yards so far this year on a 3-7 team.
You honestly think Quinn was a building block for the future? You can't be serious. He's 33yo and his best days are clearly behind him.
We have been over the Roquan situation ad nauseum. He wasn't gonna sign here in 2023 for a price Poles was willing to pay so no point keeping him.
I know this sounds crazy but when you do a teardown and rebuild, you start with tearing things down. That means you jettison players who are older, expensive, past their prime, injured, malingering, not in the longer-range plan, etc., etc., etc. You sell off assets for draft picks and to clear out cap space. I was screaming here for the Bears to start this process in 2020 or 2021 at the latest when it was obvious Trubisky wasn't gonna be the guy and the defense window was closing. Had ownership not been so damn stubborn and thick in the head, we would be in year 2 or 3 of the rebuild process by now instead of year 1.
You seem to be in denial about what a teardown/rebuild is. THIS is what it is.
I know it's painful but keeping the players you mentioned would have only prolonged the agony. The team was already in severe decline in 2019-2021 no matter how badly some wanted to deny it.
And you are in denial that this is biggest “tear down” in NFL history. There were 5 teams in 2021 with worse records than Bears and 8 with worse point differentials (a better indicator of the strength of the roster). Any of these GMs could have done what Poles did. They did not. Nobody has EVER done it on this scale ($100+ million), not even remotely close. Let’s talk about that.
No idea if that's true or false and TBH it doesn't matter.
Keeping some portion of the players we discussed would have--at best--resulted in us winning maybe 6-7 games this year instead of 4 or 5.
Is that really important?
We weren't gonna be a playoff team this year, much less a true contender, and Allen Robinson or Akiem Hicks or James Daniels would not have changed that. I just don't understand why these players, several of which are out of the league already and the rest of whom would have been 1-2 rentals at most, are so important to you.
I wrote off the 2022 season long before it ever began. The only significant reason I have watched the team this year was to see whether or not Fields was gonna be the guy to build around going forward. That lone question was 95% of what this entire season was about. I'm sorry you are having so much trouble accepting that.
I'm giving Poles some time to turn this ship around. He certainly deserves more benefit of the doubt than one offseason while new to the job and having to flush out the all the shit Pace left behind for his successor to clean up. If you're not going to give him that, then he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.
There's no GM alive or who ever was alive who could have taken the January 2022 Bears and made them into winners by September.
Christian Kirk reset the FA market for WRs on day 1 last March when Jacksonville massively overpaid for him. I know of him well as he was drafted by and played for the Cardinals who I also follow. It was a huge overpay for a "B" quality player.
So WHO SPECIFICALLY did you want Poles to sign?
JuJu is about the only reasonable option I can think of. Everyone else available in FA last year was a JAG.
I’ll take JuJu on the outside and Jarvis Landry in the slot. Better than all the “dogshit WRs” (quoting butkus) Poles brought in who can’t run precision routes or catch the damn ball.
Sounds great
Except for the fact the we didn't have the money to pay them.
And the fact that those guys were very unlikely to come to Chicago to play with an unproven QB on a shit team. Signing FAs requires both parties to agree.
And you are in denial that this is biggest “tear down” in NFL history. There were 5 teams in 2021 with worse records than Bears and 8 with worse point differentials (a better indicator of the strength of the roster). Any of these GMs could have done what Poles did. They did not. Nobody has EVER done it on this scale ($100+ million), not even remotely close. Let’s talk about that.
No idea if that's true or false and TBH it doesn't matter.
Keeping some portion of the players we discussed would have--at best--resulted in us winning maybe 6-7 games this year instead of 4 or 5.
Is that really important?
We weren't gonna be a playoff team this year, much less a true contender, and Allen Robinson or Akiem Hicks or James Daniels would not have changed that. I just don't understand why these players, several of which are out of the league already and the rest of whom would have been 1-2 rentals at most, are so important to you.
I wrote off the 2022 season long before it ever began. The only significant reason I have watched the team this year was to see whether or not Fields was gonna be the guy to build around going forward. That lone question was 95% of what this entire season was about. I'm sorry you are having so much trouble accepting that.
I'm giving Poles some time to turn this ship around. He certainly deserves more benefit of the doubt than one offseason while new to the job and having to flush out the all the shit Pace left behind for his successor to clean up. If you're not going to give him that, then he shouldn't have been hired in the first place.
There's no GM alive or who ever was alive who could have taken the January 2022 Bears and made them into winners by September.
It is true. I researched it. It does matter. He now has to replace several more players than needed to be replaced. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on that. My rebuild plan was to keep the front-7 except Trevathan, fix the damn secondary, keep Robinson and Daniels, replace Mustipher, get Pro Bowl WR. I agree that is not a one-year project, but I think it could have been done in two years. That is a counterfactual which logically means it can’t be proven or disproven. Anyway, we are where we are. I am giving Poles the benefit of the doubt, but it’s not enough just to have a better record in 2023. That could be achieved by any minimally competent monkey GM with $100 million cap space and a full plate of draft picks that he has. That’s virtually guaranteed. You can call that a “rebuild” if you want, but a .500 record is the definition of mediocrity. We fans should demand more in 2023 after what Poles has done in 2022.
I’ll take JuJu on the outside and Jarvis Landry in the slot. Better than all the “dogshit WRs” (quoting butkus) Poles brought in who can’t run precision routes or catch the damn ball.
Sounds great
Except for the fact the we didn't have the money to pay them.
And the fact that those guys were very unlikely to come to Chicago to play with an unproven QB on a shit team. Signing FAs requires both parties to agree.
Other than that, it was a great plan.
The money was there, if he hadn’t wasted so much on others. Who says they won’t play for Chicago? Did you interview either of them?
Post by germansbombedph on Nov 25, 2022 2:58:17 GMT -6
I don't understand why Poles should have added contracts with term when all we need in the future is the Cap Space. This team isn't ready and is looking for a good draft pick while the young players and future (Fields, Brisker, Gordon, Johnson, Kmet and Mooney) improves. Maybe even find some surprising pickups while they are in a transition year.
Getting rid of the older players that get paid was the easy part. Using the Cap Space and Draft picks to contend for a wildcard spot next year will be the difficult one.