I don't, but when the Niners promoted on of his assistants over him...the red flags went up.
I hope I am wrong and the easiest solution is also the best, but the defense has had just as many second half collapses to justify throwing out that baby with the bathwater.
If I remember correctly Fangio has stated that he doesn't want to be s HC.
Take it for what it's worth:
Defensive coordinator Vic Fangio, in his last scheduled media session of the season Wednesday, expressed his willingness to explore becoming a head coach.
"If the right opportunity and people were interested, yeah, I'd certainly listen," Fangio said.
After what happened when Rod Marinelli left, I don't want to lose another solid DC. Even with the injuries to the defense this year, it's performing a lot better than the 50+ point blowouts we had to endure under Mel Tucker's unit. Right now Fangio's defense is ranked 10th in the NFL in yards allowed per game. It is NOT a great defense, but I respect what Fangio has accomplished with backups and some poor talent.
This is turning into a lose/lose situation, but Pace is going to have to decide what is better for the team as a whole. Maybe Fox avoids the axe sighting massive injuries and inconsistency at the quarterback position. Maybe Fangio gets his shot. Maybe Pace just goes nuclear on the entire staff.
(the offseason just may be more action packed than the season)
+1 And I understand if Fox goes, then Fangio may go. I'm not saying keep Fox just to keep Fangio. But wouldn't it be just like the Bears to end up with another bust head coach - and another Mel Tucker dud along with the new guy? To go from bad to worse? Those 50+ blowouts were incredibly hard for us to watch due to being used to fairly decent defenses over the years. Even in bad years we at least had a halfway decent defense to watch. Some of these losses this year have at least been close games. If the offense could score, we actually would have won some of these games.
I'm not an advocate of forcing Fangio on a new head coach. But wouldn't it be nice to have the new guy actually WANT Fangio to stay and convince him to do so? Best of both worlds there.
I'm not an advocate of forcing Fangio on a new head coach. But wouldn't it be nice to have the new guy actually WANT Fangio to stay and convince him to do so? Best of both worlds there.
Dare to dream. After the bulk of the last decade, this team could use a couple of nice breaks.
How do you know that? Fangio was never given the chance to be a HC...
I don't, but when the Niners promoted on of his assistants over him...the red flags went up.
I hope I am wrong and the easiest solution is also the best, but the defense has had just as many second half collapses to justify throwing out that baby with the bathwater.
All I can say to that is that the 49ers have proven to have made some of the worst coaching decisions in recent history. The fact they promoted someone else over Fangio means nothing to me. Since they made their coaching choices they have become second only to the Browns as the sorriest team in the league. Before that, they used to compete in the playoffs.
I don't, but when the Niners promoted on of his assistants over him...the red flags went up.
I hope I am wrong and the easiest solution is also the best, but the defense has had just as many second half collapses to justify throwing out that baby with the bathwater.
If I remember correctly Fangio has stated that he doesn't want to be s HC.
I had never heard that. Has he ever said that on record?
LB has a very good point. NOBODY can give a pass to Pace AND Fangio. Pace focused heavily on "upgrading" the D personnel over the last two years and the majority of his actions revolved around the D. Meanwhile this D remains average at best so either Fangio takes the hit for not doing his job as a D coordinator or Pace takes the hit for bringing in players that just aren't up to par (or they could both take a the hit IMO).
I am not saying this is the case because I simply do not know. But it seems fairly common that HCs and their coordinators have falling outs because of a difference in philosophies. It seems that Fox likes a more conservative O. It may even be possible that he feels the same about the D? Don't take too many chances with the ball, etc.
The coordinators usually create the kind of game plans that the HC wants, at least from a high level. That's what I have gathered after many years of following the league. Again, I am not saying this is the case here, but it might be.
Were our struggles is creating turnovers. We suck so bad at that it's amazing we are not ranked 32. Just look at our starting FS for two seasons, he has 1 FF and no ints.. Like.. what? We need to get better at creating those turnovers on D.
OK LB I just went through this with Ric so now it's your turn. Forget the rest Points are what count OK?
We've given up 230 pts on defense in 10 games an average of 23 points per game. So yesterday was an average game defensively. Now to put it in perspective all four NFCS team and the Packers have given up more and the Lions roughly the same. All six of those teams have records ranging from 4-6 to 6-4.
Why? Because they're all scoring more than 16 lousy point per game. A lot more. If our offensive output only equaled our defensive prevention we'd be about 5-5 right now despite all the injuries to the defense. So it ain't the defense whose not doing their jobs brother. In reality they're the only ones who are.
It's also likely that if we did average 23-24 points per game the other guys would have scored even less because they would have had the ball less. All of the sorry truth lays at the feet of an offense John Fox assured us all this spring would be even better than the 2015 version. He's a guy who needs to be gone far more than Fangio who actually is doin his job pretty well all things considered.
Just to clarify, I think both sides suck at the moment. Never said it's only the D holding us back, we all know our offense is pathetic. My point is that even after getting new players on D, we're still #20 in PPG even though we have way more talent than last year. Btw, our defense was also #20 in PPG in 2015. And keep in mind Fangio is supposed to be the DC that is good at "developing talent". So I'm asking you, what exactly has Fangio done over the last two years?
And btw if I had to choose one player who's actually doing his job it would be someone from the offense, not defense. Howard is the ONLY one who's working his ass off every week.
I guess you can see it whatever way you like but given what Fangio was handed to work with a year ago which was essentially a roster stocked with 4-3 players he had to fashion a 3-4 defense from he did well.
This year he's never had a full complement of starters and yet he's managed to field a team good enough to have no worse than .500 record so far if the offense simply did as well as his defense does. That's not sucking in my book it's getting the job done under far less then ideal conditions.
The offense has been in better shape physically, with the exception of losing Cutler for 5 games, and they been stifled nearly every game. I can except what Fangio and his staff have done well enough to offer him the HC spot while all I want to see from Fox is his backside as leaves.
OK LB I just went through this with Ric so now it's your turn. Forget the rest Points are what count OK?
We've given up 230 pts on defense in 10 games an average of 23 points per game. So yesterday was an average game defensively. Now to put it in perspective all four NFCS team and the Packers have given up more and the Lions roughly the same. All six of those teams have records ranging from 4-6 to 6-4.
Why? Because they're all scoring more than 16 lousy point per game. A lot more. If our offensive output only equaled our defensive prevention we'd be about 5-5 right now despite all the injuries to the defense. So it ain't the defense whose not doing their jobs brother. In reality they're the only ones who are.
It's also likely that if we did average 23-24 points per game the other guys would have scored even less because they would have had the ball less. All of the sorry truth lays at the feet of an offense John Fox assured us all this spring would be even better than the 2015 version. He's a guy who needs to be gone far more than Fangio who actually is doin his job pretty well all things considered.
He goes by "the performer formally known as LB... Now GB"
I'm not gonna hang Green Bay's initials on my buddy LB! How horrible!
I agree with the OP. If you are going fire John Fox, just clean house. Fangio is good, but not good enough to promote or go out of your way to coach. Sticking with the 3-4 base is probably smart, but plenty of other coaches run it.
That might be ideal but then we have to consider how anxious Teddy Bear and the McCaskey's will be to pay off yet another of Ted's mistakes or their own depending on how you want to view it all.
My idea was simply to offer Fangio the remaining two years of Fox's deal with no assurance of an extension. Right now it's the coaching staff who needs a prove yourselves type deal more than some of the players. He may decline that and if so well then move on but this way we're only replacing part of the staff and maintaining some nucleus of the progress made so far not going back to square one and new HC who'll ask for even more changes in personnel.