Oy. Ok...except Kwiatkowski doesn't play outside linebacker...he plays middle linebacker. So thats nice that you would rather create a new hole in order to keep a player who's not as good as Trevathan and will cost more, but I'm glad you're not our GM. And I'm gonna guess kwiatkowski gets more than 10 because there aren't a lot of MLB's on the market.
Well, I can say a few things about all this. First, Kwiatkowski could play outside linebacker better than Floyd does. So, "dropping back in coverage" is supposed to be Floyd's job. Kwiatkowski can do that better than him. He can also shed blockers and make tackles on running plays better than Floyd. But that wasn't my point. He is just an all-around better football player than Floyd. As far as the money goes, what I read is that $10 million is about what it will take to keep him, which we can afford by either redoing Floyd's contract for less money, or otherwise just let him go FA. As for "holes", I say we ALREADY have a hole at OLB -- Floyd! And there are three or four ways to fill it to end up with somebody who can play that position as well or better than Floyd. Paying him $13 million is "good money chasing bad" at this point. I want the Bears to play hardball with him.
Ha ... no, just no. Not even close. Not at all to any of this. Floyd's coverage>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nick's. Floyd does so much more than coverage that isn't appreciated. Nick was a nice ILB, but the demands of ROLB are completely different and Nick is not up to that task.
Well, I can say a few things about all this. First, Kwiatkowski could play outside linebacker better than Floyd does. So, "dropping back in coverage" is supposed to be Floyd's job. Kwiatkowski can do that better than him. He can also shed blockers and make tackles on running plays better than Floyd. But that wasn't my point. He is just an all-around better football player than Floyd. As far as the money goes, what I read is that $10 million is about what it will take to keep him, which we can afford by either redoing Floyd's contract for less money, or otherwise just let him go FA. As for "holes", I say we ALREADY have a hole at OLB -- Floyd! And there are three or four ways to fill it to end up with somebody who can play that position as well or better than Floyd. Paying him $13 million is "good money chasing bad" at this point. I want the Bears to play hardball with him.
Ha ... no, just no. Not even close. Not at all to any of this. Floyd's coverage>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nick's. Floyd does so much more than coverage that isn't appreciated. Nick was a nice ILB, but the demands of ROLB are completely different and Nick is not up to that task.
no doubt. Nick last year became servicable in coverage, but up to that point he was a liablity, it was almost Shea like in watching him always be 1-2 steps late to the play. I'm really surprised how many people don't understand that not every OLB is a pass rusher. Alec Ogletree has had a pretty steady career NOT being the pass rushing OLB.
"The 3–4 also has two types of OLBs. The Joker, Jack, Buck, or Elephant is usually the primary pass rusher. Depending on the scheme, the Joker can be on either side of the defensive formation. He must be an excellent pass rusher, and has to be able to beat both stronger right tackles and rangier left tackles off the edge of the formation*Mack*.[11] The other 3–4 OLB, the Sam, does not have a specific designation. Like a Sam linebacker in a 4–3 scheme, the other 3–4 OLB must be able to cover, blitz, and play the run. *Floyd, notice that his job is not only to pass rush, actually specifically he is expected to blitz as well as cover/play the run*
americanfootball.fandom.com/wiki/3%E2%80%934_defense " But in a 3–4, the fourth rusher is usually a linebacker, though many teams, such as the Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens, use a talented safety to blitz and confuse the coverage, giving them more defensive options in the same 3–4 look. However, since there are four linebackers and four defensive backs, the fourth potential rusher can come from any of eight defensive positions. This is designed to confuse the quarterback's pre-snap defensive read."
Here it points out that you don't normally send both OLB's to pass rush, you send one. That one is normally mack, but you cannot always send him. That means Floyds primary job isn't pass rushing but run stopping and pass protection and setting the edge. It goes on to point out ideally you have a S that can also blitz further confusing the QB as to who that 4th rusher is going to be.
Football isn't as simple as this position does x, therefore every player in that position needs to do x. Maybe a few positions, C, K, P LS. But those are exceptions.
First, a couple points about Floyd. He wasn’t drafted in the first round to drop back in coverage or fiddle around in other capacities. He was drafted PRIMARILY as a pass rusher, and it has taken some folks 4 years and still don’t see that he’s not up to the job, even with Mack and Hicks drawing most of the attention from the opposing line. Second, he IS called upon to rush the passer on MANY plays and he had 3 sacks to show for it (BTW same as Kwiatkowski). Bottomline: He is not worth $13 million.
Second, I never suggested that I want Kwiatkowski to play OLB, but I do believe he is a better football player than Floyd and could play the position better than Floyd, if needed. But that would be only my second or third option for filling this “hole”.
Third, and this was my main point: If it comes down to a choice between which of these guys to keep on the roster for money reasons, I’d vote for Kwiatkowski all day.
Bears have til next week to dump Floyd or we're stuck with his contract..
Oy. Ok...except Kwiatkowski doesn't play outside linebacker...he plays middle linebacker. So thats nice that you would rather create a new hole in order to keep a player who's not as good as Trevathan and will cost more, but I'm glad you're not our GM. And I'm gonna guess kwiatkowski gets more than 10 because there aren't a lot of MLB's on the market.
Well, I can say a few things about all this. First, Kwiatkowski could play outside linebacker better than Floyd does. So, "dropping back in coverage" is supposed to be Floyd's job. Kwiatkowski can do that better than him. He can also shed blockers and make tackles on running plays better than Floyd. But that wasn't my point. He is just an all-around better football player than Floyd. As far as the money goes, what I read is that $10 million is about what it will take to keep him, which we can afford by either redoing Floyd's contract for less money, or otherwise just let him go FA. As for "holes", I say we ALREADY have a hole at OLB -- Floyd! And there are three or four ways to fill it to end up with somebody who can play that position as well or better than Floyd. Paying him $13 million is "good money chasing bad" at this point. I want the Bears to play hardball with him.
1. You've provided no proof of any of your claims whatsoever. What exactly do you have to point to that would imply Kwi could play OLB at all...let alone better than Floyd. If that were true, don't you think a cash strapped bears team would resign Kwi and let Floyd walk? I mean I know common sense isn't common...but thats some pretty simple friggen math.
2. He's not a better all around football player. At least not yet he isn't. I can guarantee that Floyd would get more guaranteed money than Kwi on the open market. It's one of the reasons why he hasn't signed an extension.
3. You talk about redoing contracts as if it's only one parties decision. Are contracts a new thing to you? You do know it takes TWO to tango when it comes to contracts...right?
4. We don't have a hole at OLB. We have an area that we'd like to see improvement on in ONE specific thing. Thats not a hole. A hole is having to start a UDFA who played the other side of the ball a week ago as a starter.
5. In order to play hardball you have to have leverage, and the Bears have none. I mean again, this is simple math.
Well, I can say a few things about all this. First, Kwiatkowski could play outside linebacker better than Floyd does. So, "dropping back in coverage" is supposed to be Floyd's job. Kwiatkowski can do that better than him. He can also shed blockers and make tackles on running plays better than Floyd. But that wasn't my point. He is just an all-around better football player than Floyd. As far as the money goes, what I read is that $10 million is about what it will take to keep him, which we can afford by either redoing Floyd's contract for less money, or otherwise just let him go FA. As for "holes", I say we ALREADY have a hole at OLB -- Floyd! And there are three or four ways to fill it to end up with somebody who can play that position as well or better than Floyd. Paying him $13 million is "good money chasing bad" at this point. I want the Bears to play hardball with him.
1. You've provided no proof of any of your claims whatsoever. What exactly do you have to point to that would imply Kwi could play OLB at all...let alone better than Floyd. If that were true, don't you think a cash strapped bears team would resign Kwi and let Floyd walk? I mean I know common sense isn't common...but thats some pretty simple friggen math.
2. He's not a better all around football player. At least not yet he isn't. I can guarantee that Floyd would get more guaranteed money than Kwi on the open market. It's one of the reasons why he hasn't signed an extension.
3. You talk about redoing contracts as if it's only one parties decision. Are contracts a new thing to you? You do know it takes TWO to tango when it comes to contracts...right?
4. We don't have a hole at OLB. We have an area that we'd like to see improvement on in ONE specific thing. Thats not a hole. A hole is having to start a UDFA who played the other side of the ball a week ago as a starter.
5. In order to play hardball you have to have leverage, and the Bears have none. I mean again, this is simple math.
6. I maintain that I'm glad you're not our GM.
Ya I wasn't even going to respond to that. No doubt Floyd isnt as good as a pass rusher as the Bears hoped, but that was never the only thing they wanted or expected out of him. Specifically pace mentioned how rare it so for a guy like him to be able to drop into coverage and handle the run, also pointing out that a lot of pass rushers coming out arent 4 down players but have to come out, but floyd stayed in on all plays.
Ha ... no, just no. Not even close. Not at all to any of this. Floyd's coverage>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nick's. Floyd does so much more than coverage that isn't appreciated. Nick was a nice ILB, but the demands of ROLB are completely different and Nick is not up to that task.
no doubt. Nick last year became servicable in coverage, but up to that point he was a liablity, it was almost Shea like in watching him always be 1-2 steps late to the play. I'm really surprised how many people don't understand that not every OLB is a pass rusher. Alec Ogletree has had a pretty steady career NOT being the pass rushing OLB.
"The 3–4 also has two types of OLBs. The Joker, Jack, Buck, or Elephant is usually the primary pass rusher. Depending on the scheme, the Joker can be on either side of the defensive formation. He must be an excellent pass rusher, and has to be able to beat both stronger right tackles and rangier left tackles off the edge of the formation*Mack*.[11] The other 3–4 OLB, the Sam, does not have a specific designation. Like a Sam linebacker in a 4–3 scheme, the other 3–4 OLB must be able to cover, blitz, and play the run. *Floyd, notice that his job is not only to pass rush, actually specifically he is expected to blitz as well as cover/play the run*
americanfootball.fandom.com/wiki/3%E2%80%934_defense " But in a 3–4, the fourth rusher is usually a linebacker, though many teams, such as the Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens, use a talented safety to blitz and confuse the coverage, giving them more defensive options in the same 3–4 look. However, since there are four linebackers and four defensive backs, the fourth potential rusher can come from any of eight defensive positions. This is designed to confuse the quarterback's pre-snap defensive read."
Here it points out that you don't normally send both OLB's to pass rush, you send one. That one is normally mack, but you cannot always send him. That means Floyds primary job isn't pass rushing but run stopping and pass protection and setting the edge. It goes on to point out ideally you have a S that can also blitz further confusing the QB as to who that 4th rusher is going to be.
Football isn't as simple as this position does x, therefore every player in that position needs to do x. Maybe a few positions, C, K, P LS. But those are exceptions.
Since we are done talking about Danny T and now on to Floyd, I'll say this.
No matter what happens with him this coming week (he stays, he leaves, whatever), Ryan Pace needs to get more pass-rush talent on the roster ASAP. Whether you love Floyd or hate him, we all can admit that rushing the QB isn't exactly his forte. He had one sack in 15 games last season playing opposite a guy who was drawing tons of attention from the blocking scheme.
That's why I've been pounding the table for 2nd round OLB/edge draft choice this year. We are thin as hell there even if Floyd sticks around.
When your 2nd best pass rushing threat is Nick (Williams or Kwiatowski), you have a hole that needs filling.
no doubt. Nick last year became servicable in coverage, but up to that point he was a liablity, it was almost Shea like in watching him always be 1-2 steps late to the play. I'm really surprised how many people don't understand that not every OLB is a pass rusher. Alec Ogletree has had a pretty steady career NOT being the pass rushing OLB.
"The 3–4 also has two types of OLBs. The Joker, Jack, Buck, or Elephant is usually the primary pass rusher. Depending on the scheme, the Joker can be on either side of the defensive formation. He must be an excellent pass rusher, and has to be able to beat both stronger right tackles and rangier left tackles off the edge of the formation*Mack*.[11] The other 3–4 OLB, the Sam, does not have a specific designation. Like a Sam linebacker in a 4–3 scheme, the other 3–4 OLB must be able to cover, blitz, and play the run. *Floyd, notice that his job is not only to pass rush, actually specifically he is expected to blitz as well as cover/play the run*
americanfootball.fandom.com/wiki/3%E2%80%934_defense " But in a 3–4, the fourth rusher is usually a linebacker, though many teams, such as the Pittsburgh Steelers and Baltimore Ravens, use a talented safety to blitz and confuse the coverage, giving them more defensive options in the same 3–4 look. However, since there are four linebackers and four defensive backs, the fourth potential rusher can come from any of eight defensive positions. This is designed to confuse the quarterback's pre-snap defensive read."
Here it points out that you don't normally send both OLB's to pass rush, you send one. That one is normally mack, but you cannot always send him. That means Floyds primary job isn't pass rushing but run stopping and pass protection and setting the edge. It goes on to point out ideally you have a S that can also blitz further confusing the QB as to who that 4th rusher is going to be.
Football isn't as simple as this position does x, therefore every player in that position needs to do x. Maybe a few positions, C, K, P LS. But those are exceptions.
Since we are done talking about Danny T and now on to Floyd, I'll say this.
No matter what happens with him this coming week (he stays, he leaves, whatever), Ryan Pace needs to get more pass-rush talent on the roster ASAP. Whether you love Floyd or hate him, we all can admit that rushing the QB isn't exactly his forte. He had one sack in 15 games last season playing opposite a guy who was drawing tons of attention from the blocking scheme.
That's why I've been pounding the table for 2nd round OLB/edge draft choice this year. We are thin as hell there even if Floyd sticks around.
When your 2nd best pass rushing threat is Nick (Williams or Kwiatowski), you have a hole that needs filling.
I would agree, I pointed that in my response to butkas, he hasn't lived up to the pass rush that the team wanted even if he is filling the other roles they also wanted when drafting him.
We as a fan need to educate ourselves in what the olb position means. Mack isnt ever going to pass rush 100% of the time, and the other olb isn't primarily a pass rusher.
I dont think they keep him at 13mil either, and I've said as much, but I do think they would be willing to re sign him at a lower aav even if more overall guaranteed money which is likely what he would want.
Post by lklrlolnlilklsox on Mar 15, 2020 0:10:06 GMT -6
Just to add to what Butkus and others have said. Has it been considered how much Leonard's play has boosted that of the guys around him. I really like the player he's become, and I'd like it if we can sign him long term locking up one spot while we look for the right rotational kid to play behind him and Mack.
As for pass rush, that's on our DL as much as anything. Health, or lack thereof, there sank us in crunch time and made a really good D beatable. Not putting last season on D at all, though, and hopefully the O keeps them fresher this year.
Did Chicago Bears overpay Danny Trevathan? By Parker Hurley - March 15th, 2020
Now that the numbers are coming in for the Danny Trevathan contract, did they get him at value?
The Chicago Bears have extended Danny Trevathan. As the reports have started to come in, the deal is a three-year contract for $21.75, with incentives to make it a $24 million deal. He also is getting $14 million in guaranteed money.
When we broke down the possible market for Danny Trevathan, and what others in similar spots got, we summarized that a 2-year deal with $12 million in guarantees was a fair market value for him.
Did Chicago Bears overpay Danny Trevathan? By Parker Hurley - March 15th, 2020
Now that the numbers are coming in for the Danny Trevathan contract, did they get him at value?
The Chicago Bears have extended Danny Trevathan. As the reports have started to come in, the deal is a three-year contract for $21.75, with incentives to make it a $24 million deal. He also is getting $14 million in guaranteed money.
When we broke down the possible market for Danny Trevathan, and what others in similar spots got, we summarized that a 2-year deal with $12 million in guarantees was a fair market value for him.
2 quote the article, this should be looked at as a 2 yr 14mil deal. 7mil aav.
Also, nick k will get overpaid which is probably why they gave a few more mil to danny t to keep him in the fold as he knows the system*this is an understatement as he was the def playcaller*