Post by blueshoes on Sept 27, 2016 18:02:15 GMT -6
This doesn't faze me cuz if there's an inability to co-exist , then changes will come and we'll move on from there . Fox's philosophy RELIES ON having vets who are established and good enough to carry out his conservative 'plan' . They don't exist on this team and if that's the way he wants to do things then he's on the wrong sideline ... or they'll have to wait along with him until they get there - which will take alot more time ... but then again ANY rebuild takes a long time . Damned if you do damned if you don't - but if they can't co-exist then we'll have a new coach soon enough .
It would not surprise me. I did not see any rift but things look and smell like dysfunction. Not the deep stench of Emery/Trestman dysfunction, but dysfunction nonetheless. So it very well could be.
Post by Whisky Beer Bob on Sept 27, 2016 19:16:33 GMT -6
There must be some rift. I mean the whole Floyd pick seems to have Fox and Fangio at odds....or is it Pace and Fangio....maybe Fox... I hope Virginia goes down and smacks someone for the mediocrity on the field
true or not, this is good for Pace as he could now say nothing and already there is a perceived distancing between coach and GM.
I can honestly say two thing here under oath.
1) I had not read this article until just now nor did I listen to Kaplan on the Waddle and Silvy show before I posted yesterday and again last night that if he was smart Ryan Pace would be smart to protect his own career by distancing himself from John Fox ASAP.
2) I have never read that Instagram before but from what knowledge I have acquired since Fox was let go it is not far off the mark from the way it went down and I'll elaborate just a bit.
John Elway had great respect for John Fox when he hired him so when Fox was unable to show the kind of command of his team and game day savvy needed to win in the playoffs he first asked Foxy to be more assertive and demanding of his players. In year three of his four year stay with Gase now his OC and Manning at QB those two managed to engineer the #1 offense in the NFL but it was not a John Fox style offense.
Throughout the playoffs that year the Broncos became more and more conservative and predictable seemingly with Fox's insistence they could beat Seattle with defense and a more conservative game plan. That and the fact that Fox had added no new wrinkles to deceive Pete Carroll and his defense is probably what bothered Elway most since he was far more of an offensive thinker. They played and Seattle buried that #1 offense as badly as the '85 Bears buried NE in SB XX.
Well you can't fire a SB coach even if you want to but by then Elway had designs on bringing in Gary Kubiak as an OC and Asst. HC knowing it would give him more say in the running of the offense. When the Broncos went one and done again in the 2014 playoffs Elway no longer asked but demanded change and bringing in Kubiak to begin developing Osweiler to take over for Manning. Again Fox resisted and that was that. Buh bye Foxy and hello Kubiak not as OC/Asst HC but as THE HC.
What I've been saying for two day now is that I fear we have another conservative defensive minded HC too stubborn and unwilling to change much like we had with Lovie only the results have been more Trestman like.
As I've said this is Fox's last HC and he knows it. He came in to take a swing at a third quick turnaround feather to add to his cap and a shot at building another SB team, did what IMHO was a somewhat careless makeover of his offense, and none of it has worked. This is his game and his only game. Beyond it he has no answers which is basically what he said post game Sunday night.
He's 62 years old and has a four year deal. Whether he finishes it or not he'll still collect because he won't coach again so there'll be no offset from what he gets from his next coaching job. If nothing else he's counting on the Ted Phillips and/or the McCaskey's not being willing to eat two years of his salary getting him one more year and he'll pray for a miracle turnaround then but as we all have come to suspect. This is year is shot in the ass again.
This is not gonna change or get better 'til Ryan Pace steps up to the plate with the McCaskey's and says he's gonna make a change and Fox is the one whose one and done.
true or not, this is good for Pace as he could now say nothing and already there is a perceived distancing between coach and GM.
I could be wrong, but I think that Fox will 'retire' after this season..
That would be nice and I think Elway actually gave him the option of resigning in Denver too but no matter what's been written about a mutual agreement that's not the version of what happened I've ever been told.
Anyway thanks for digging that stuff up and posting it bf because based on some of the signs and my instincts at least a good portion of it seems quite factual. But here's why I think he won't retire reprinted from my previous post.
"He's 62 years old and has a four year deal. Whether he finishes it or not he'll still collect because he won't coach again so there'll be no offset from what he gets from his next coaching job. If nothing else he's counting on the CEO Ted Phillips and/or the McCaskey's not being willing to eat two years of his salary getting him one more year and he'll pray for a miracle turnaround then but as we all have come to suspect. This is year is shot in the ass again."
It would not surprise me. I did not see any rift but things look and smell like dysfunction. Not the deep stench of Emery/Trestman dysfunction, but dysfunction nonetheless. So it very well could be.
Fox has far more experience with infighting than Emery or Trestman were and he's gonna challenge Pace just as he did with Elway. I said before he's a crafty old coot when it comes to the politics of the NFL. It's just too bad some of that cleverness doesn't carry over to his coaching.
He won't resign and leave $10 mil on the table. This job was his retirement package. His "golden parachute" out of the NFL and he'll either try to stick around to collect it or like Lovie he'll collect it by not coaching only in his case it will be permanent. If Pace wants him gone he'll need to fire him.
What bothers me more and has been ever since the season began is that despite his hokey platitude about "give up, give in, or give it your all" he thinks that applies to everyone else but him. He's already mailed it in. That quite obvious now.
There must be some rift. I mean the whole Floyd pick seems to have Fox and Fangio at odds....or is it Pace and Fangio....maybe Fox... I hope Virginia goes down and smacks someone for the mediocrity on the field
I'd guess that all depends on whose side of this Fangio falls. I would tend to think that much like players, coaches tend to see battles with the front office as us vs them.
At issue at the moment if we theorize for a moment is if Pace fired Fox now the only guy he could look to as an interim coach might be Fangio and only if Fangio is in agreement with Pace and his plans. So let's look for evidence of that.
Pace drafts Floyd possibly over Fox's objection but what about Fangio's? Well Pace said Floyd will be bulked up to play at 245-250lbs initially which IMHO is still to small for a prototypical OLB in his scheme. His guy go 260-270lbs. Fangio says no Floyd will play at 230lbs or so like he did in college. So that's a rather obvious difference of opinion right from the get go.
Later on when some media type asks Fangio to compare Floyd to Aldon Smith in his defense he scoffs at the idea pointing out the very obvious physical differences between the two. Smith does weigh 265lbs so he's easily 30lbs heavier than Floyd and unless the Bears training and nutrition staff can figure out how to keep weight on the kid he may never even keep 245lbs on let alone 265lbs.
Finally just before the opener Fangio is asked about his plans for Floyd. While he doesn't actually slam him he makes it clear that Floyd seems to be lacking in something which he terms as conditioning. But it's an intentionally nebulous comment that could also be interpreted as the kid isn't big enough or strong enough to handle a starting role yet he started in game one over Houston and played 94% of the snaps. Why?
If coaches decide who plays and they leave their best pass rusher on the bench I'd begin to interpret that as I'm gonna prove this kid was a bad pick. If they liked him and really wanted him to succeed I would think the bring him along more slowly and spot him in ways he can succeed to build his confidence not throw him to the water to sink or swim. Floyd has shown little pass rushing ability so far and Dallas completely destroyed him both against the run and the pass.
So you tell me. Which side do you think Fangio is on?
