Post by lklrlolnlilklsox on Sept 26, 2016 8:43:32 GMT -6
Let me know when either of these QBs go through anything remotely resembling a progression and read that isn't 101 level, hot route, spread offense bullshit.
Once again we got destroyed by yet another rookie QB, this season isn't looking promising. In fact it looks like its going to be a liver killing year but if we do survive this season who do you want us to pick in the first round.
This is assuming of course that we are a top 3 pick by 2017.
Let's start:
1. DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame
Height: 6-4. Weight: 230.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2017): 1.
9/22/16: Kizer is the top quarterback prospect for the 2017 NFL Draft. He has a better physical skill set than Deshan Watson, Brad Kaaya or Chad Kelly. Kizer can make beautiful touch passes with superb accuracy and ball placement while being under fire from pass rush. His field vision is very good as he moves his eyes through his progressions even with defenders bearing down on him. Kizer has the arm strength to make all the throws in the NFL with impressive accuracy to beat good coverage. He consistently shows the ability to drop in accurate touch passes downfield and the mobility to make plays with his feet. Kizer is an excellent pocket passer.
In 2016, Kizer has completed 71 percent of his passes for 371 yards with seven touchdowns and one interception. He's also run for two scores. Kizer started this year with a tremendous game against Texas and gave evidence to NFL teams that he could be a future franchise quarterback. Kizer lofted in some beautiful passes between defenders against the Longhorns. Kizer also showed excellent decision-making while maintaing poise under the pass rush of Texas. He protected the football and made extraordinary passes into small openings. Kizer also was impressive in leading a near comeback against Michigan State where he made many similar throws.
In 2015, Kizer completed 63 percent of his passes for 2,884 yards with 21 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. He also ran for 520 yards with 10 scores on the ground.
2. Deshaun Watson*, QB, Clemson
Height: 6-2. Weight: 205.
Projected 40 Time: 4.60.
Projected Round (2017): 1-2.
9/22/16: Watson had two subdued performances to open the season before playing better against a cupcake team in South Carolina State. So far in 2016, Watson has completed 57 percent of his passes for 692 yards with seven touchdowns and three interceptions.
7/29/16: Watson played really well to lead Clemson to the National Championship game, and in that title tilt, he threw for over 400 yards and four touchdowns against an Alabama defense that featured tons of future NFL talent. Watson completed 68 percent of his passes in 2015 for 4,104 yards with 35 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. On the ground, he averaged 5.3 yards per carry for 1,105 yards with 12 scores.
Watson has a decent arm, excellent athleticism, and can show some superb accuracy. However, he is undersized and doesn't play in a pro-style offense. His numbers are vastly inflated by his college offense. Operating under center will be one thing for him to learn. Watson also has to improve his field vision. He flashes good field vision to work through his progressions on some plays, but he is inconsistent and he can also look to run too soon. Watson won't be able to run as much in the NFL and he needs to get faster at working through his progressions. His pocket-passing process has to get quicker as well.
5/19/16 2016 - Lott Impact Trophy Watch List: Myles Garrett, DE Texas A&M (6-5, 262, Arlington, TX): Consensus All-American as a sophomore last season; All-SEC; among the nation's leaders in tackles for losses with 19.5 and 12.5 sacks; led team with 10 quarterback hurries and had a total of 59 tackles; on Watch List last season
12/09/15 - 2015 All-SEC FIRST TEAM ( COACHES ): DL Myles Garrett, Texas A&M ...Garrett is, arguably, the nation's most disruptive defensive player. Garrett leads the SEC with 11.5 QB sacks, 17.0 tackles for loss (tie) and five forced fumbles, and he ranks in the top five nationally in all three of these statistical categories. He also has 57 tackles, seven WB hurries, a blocked punt and an interception on his 2015 resume.
Now I know we just drafted a pass rushing OLB but Garrett looks to be the real deal type. Like the Kahlil Mack/Von Miller type of player.
First off the Bears have wasted enough money on Defense and not gotten anything in return. And what the hell is DeShone Kizer, QB, Notre Dame doing on anyone's draft list hell he has lost as many games this as the Bears, we don't need another loser QB damn surely you could have found anyone better then this fucking bum. And why is a QB with only a decent arm even on this list. I am not even voting because this is a wasted thread.
The HC gives his team an identity Monsters not it's QB. Lombardi did it with the Packers just as Halas did with the Bears and Shula with Miami. Unless Fox can get it done, and he hasn't, it won't make damn bit of difference whether Cutler stays or goes or it's Hoyer or Shaw or a rookie draftee. It's a mess right now and the only guy who can clean that up is Fox.
If a major corporation is about to go in the shitter they don't hire a new national sales manager or VP of finance they hire and new CEO and let him decide who stays, who goes, and who gets hired to replace them. Fox and Pace both said they're casting their lot with Cutler and will build around him. If they decide to dust him after this season not only will the look like idiots they'll also look like they have no more clue about what they're doing than Emery and Trestman did.
It may or may not be the best thing for both sides for that to happen but besides those who'd be happy to see Cutler gone there will be just as many questioning who they plan to replace him with when there's no one here to look at now. I guess we could get lucky like here in Denver and find another Trevor Siemian but it's still Denver's dominant defense that's winning them games just as the '80s Bears won without McMahon until the playoffs came. Now we'll see how well this works here over 16 games and the playoffs.
Maybe I'm wrong and you can bring in college passer who played in spread offenses and build schemes that will work with them like Seattle was able to do with Wilson but Wilson actually played in a pro style offense in college and it was Seattle with the dominant defense. The problem is that style of an offense it the farthest thing from John Fox's mind. He wants to run an offense like he ran at Carolina over 10 years ago just like Martz wanted to recreate the Greatest Show on Turf at Soldier F'n Field and I seriously doubt it will work.
So we'll see. His best bet would be to ride Cutler 'til has another option and to be honest with out track record for drafting QBs and without a certified QB guru to develop one I would not even want to think about spending a top pick on one. My feeling is we'd make another jump at a player out of need like we did with Floyd and with White and we don't get a Wentz we get a Goff or a Bortles or any one of a dozen others who end up doing little more for us than Grossman ever did.
If we take a QB in round one we can't afford to blow that pick and while I don't see White or Floyd as busts they are both very far from being NFL ready impact players so I guess what I'm saying is I don't trust Ryan Pace not to blow that pick. I'd rather draft a lesser player and gamble on him and maybe Shaw if the kid every recovers.
Every great HC has a great QB. Brett Star and Sid luckman were big reasons for winning. So Fox a guy who got rid of all our productive players can clean his own mess up?
Why are we still thinking Cutler is good? Dude is going into his mid 30's and is having yet another bad year. He shows zero passion when out on the field and to be honest, looks like he's only playing to collect that pay check. We are REBUILDING and yet we keep the same QB who was known for ending OC's careers. Most fans won't look at Fox and Pace as idiots for getting rid of Cutler, in fact many fans have been asking him to go since we sign him here a decade back. Cutler is unteachable. Yes he had a great year with Gase but Gase plan was to keep the ball out of Cutler's hands as much as possible.
Or we attempt to get a Rookie QB who is as good as Cutler and going by the recent drafts going a half of decade back there have been QBs as good if not better than Cutler playing right now. Why not take the gamble while also having a HUGE difference in contract?
You keep thinking of the past when we attempted to draft QBs yet you don't realize we have new scouts and a new GM who has been much better than our recent GMs. We need to pick up a QB this year. Rather it be in the first or second that's all up to Pace but getting a tackle while having a QB or a great prospect pass rusher as a option is a terrible idea.
You and everyone else need to forget about Cutler's facial expressions. They don't tell anyone a thing about what's going inside his head. Some people don't show much emotion or expression when they're under stress and I'm one of them. Cutler smiles and jokes around when he's relaxed but when he's playing and under stress he has a pretty blank face. I've been accused of the same thing and I don't smile a lot either. It's a poker face and sometimes it's quite intentional especially when I'm observing or analyzing something which I'm sure he is at times as well.
You also have to admit there hasn't been a whole lot to be happy about sometimes and at other times who knows how much physical pain he's feeling and keeping in. How many who want harp on it are getting nailed by 270-300lb pass rushers 10-20 times game. He's not grimacing in pain. You don't want them to see that either. You also know he's diabetic don't you. That could also impact his mood. If we were winning no one would care if he was made up like Bozo the Clown so people pick on the dumbest shit imaginable. He's an athlete not an entertainer.
How do you figure he's having a bad year when he and AJ were the only offense they've had in the first two games and his QBR was well over 100 in both until his protection collapsed in the second half and no one had an answer for what to do about it. How well did Aaron Rodgers play last year with no running game to speak of and his best WR out? He and Cutler had nearly identical QBRs last year and yet Rodgers is an all star and Jay is a bum. The thought that a guy whose the most productive QB in Bears history in terms of stats is a bad QB is ridiculous. He's only a very small part of a problem that hasn't been solved since around 1990.
Sid Luckman played on some very dominant Bears teams as did Jim McMahon. How many dominant Bears teams has Cutler ever played on since he's been in Chicago?
Look I no longer care one way or another whether we trade him or not. But I will be quite interested to hear Pace and Fox's (if he's still here) comments on how in one year they went from committing to build around him to trading him. To me that would be just one more indication they have no idea what they're doing and if that decision follows like several others it will be made before they have a replacement for him in place too just like they did with BM and Forte. I won't lose sleep over it but making it to and winning in the playoffs in 2017 with a rookie QB or worse yet Hoyer is a pretty bold endeavor.
I'm done debating it because for one thing I don't care all that much what they do. If it works it works and if not then the Cutler critics will have to find another QB to scapegoat like they've always done. Until John Fox either proves he up to the task he was hired for or he's gone whose at QB won't make any more difference than whose on first in the Abbott and Costello skit. The way this team looks right now with Fox as HC we couldn't win a game with Tom Brady at QB so that would end the Cutler problem right there if Belicheat would swap and then we'd still lose and Cutler would be in a Super Bowl.
I'll leave you with this Monsters. In this third year as HC Ditka took the '85 Bears to and won the only Super Bowl we've ever won. Looking at this team right now with or without Jay Cutler how close do you think Fox is to taking the 2017 Bears to and winning a Super Bowl? Fox had more say and authority over personnel and roster decisions this year than last and what's happened? Did we get better, worse, or stay the same? If any of us want to try and figure out what's wrong here I think we need to look a whole lot deeper than Jay Cutler. It's not just that we share the same record as Cleveland that scares me it's that were beginning to look as ****ed up as they are. That does scare me.
QB for sure. Give Floyd a year more and with McPhee back + Young we should be able to generate pressure. Unless you can get the next Von Miller, Watt or Mack.
Post by germansbombedph on Sept 27, 2016 5:23:59 GMT -6
I'd rather have a Rodgers, Brady, Manning or Brees in their prime than a Watt or Miller. That's nothing against the D guys, but we are talking elite QBs here. Guys that will make the POs almost without much help.
I'd rather have a Rodgers, Brady, Manning or Brees in their prime than a Watt or Miller. That's nothing against the D guys, but we are talking elite QBs here. Guys that will make the POs almost without much help.
I can agree with that but it's important to remember that a great QB doesn't have to be taken with the first pick. I don't want the Bears grabbing the top ranked QB with their first pick if they don't think he's their guy. If they think there is a better QB for them that will be available in the second then take a different guy in the first.
QB for sure. Give Floyd a year more and with McPhee back + Young we should be able to generate pressure. Unless you can get the next Von Miller, Watt or Mack.
Y'know maybe they did make a mistake drafting Floyd as a rush DE - but sure looks to me like he could be a really good OLB cuz he has the right size and speed . Just don't wait too long and confuse him and turn him into another Shea . Actually he's a better athlete so I think once they decide to make him a OLB he'll be fine .
If you think he will be elite, you take him even if he isn't ranked 1st Overall by media. If he busts, you better watch out.
But are any of these QBs truly elite? Both seem to not be having the best of luck in their college games recently while Garrett is still doing is thing.
