Going down the panic and dump everyone route is the surest way for the Bears to become the Cleveland Browns. I think we need to give the current regime at least three years before judging them.
I am not saying that I agree with everything that was (or will be) done or that I haven't scratched my head and had my share of WTF moments. Just that we have no idea what the whole picture is and will never know. The only basis for their success or failure will be the performance of the team over the long run.
That is exactly where I am at right now. If the team is still bad in 2017 then I'll be grabbing the torch and pitchfork too. And the people who called it before me can give me a hard time here :-)
If 2017 were to start put as bad as 2016, I'd advise both Pace and Fox to put their houses on the market.
+1 That's pretty much how I feel about it too. I want to watch this 2nd season of the rebuilding effort, and see how it all unfolds over the course of the 16 games. I want to see who improves. I want to see who doesn't. I want to watch the coaches and how they respond to what looks like a brutal year (will the players quit on Fox like they quit on Trestman?).
Then I want to see the off-season moves, including the draft, free agency and coaching hires/fires. This will then be the 3rd year of the rebuilding effort. If the 2017 team looks substantially improved - especially over the 2014 Emery/Trestman team - then that's going to be good. But, if we don't see substantial improvement after 3 drafts, and 3 free agencies, and Fox having had 3 seasons to show what he can do with the talent acquired over the 3 years - then we have a problem.
I try to not be some nut case who expects a major rebuilding project to be completed in 1 year. I don't advocate firing the coaches after 2 games (how crazy is that?). But on the other hand, I don't expect Pace and Fox to have forever to show marked improvement either.
Three years is plenty of time to show substantial improvement. I am willing to be patient and give them that much time before I make a final judgement.
I am not going to struggle to dislike what I have seen so far and like JABF says, I guess we have to give it one more year. But if this year shows anything it is that Fox seems to concentrate more on D than O IMHO. I really want to see them focus on drafting a good QB next year. Hell it may not even be a true franchise QB. Look at the early success that Phili and Dallas had against us with non franchise QB's. But then again lately we make any QB look like all world.
I hated getting beat by Dallas, but I couldn't help but be amazed watching a "real" NFL offensive line work. Dallas OL manhandled our defenders with ease. With ease they moved our D guys around like we'd move furniture. Men against boys. I had to (begrudgingly) admire what the Cowboys have built - the OL is a dream to watch.
Gonna see a lot of these posts this year. The two factions are forming it seems:
Those who think we need to get rid of Fox and co. after just 18 games (and counting). Those who think we need to steel ourselves and be patient.
Rash decisions and quick turnover, in my opinion, will leave as a bottom 5 franchise in the NFL for the next decade. Show some resolve, bear down, and give em some time. That's my mantra.
Honestly Belli, I can't think of a post seriously wanting to ditch Fox at this point. I have seen lots of questions thrown out (I have them too), but not sure it is more than that. Maybe the most I have seen is people wondering if he should be let go after a bad season this year. But maybe I just misread some of the posts.
I think you'll see a lot more of them now and you'll see a lot more of me saying:Show some resolve, Bear down, and give em some time. Moving on from Fox after this year would be cathartic to fans who always want blood when things don't go well, but management needs to think about what's best for the team.
Honestly Belli, I can't think of a post seriously wanting to ditch Fox at this point. I have seen lots of questions thrown out (I have them too), but not sure it is more than that. Maybe the most I have seen is people wondering if he should be let go after a bad season this year. But maybe I just misread some of the posts.
I think you'll see a lot more of them now and you'll see a lot more of me saying:Show some resolve, Bear down, and give em some time. Moving on from Fox after this year would be cathartic to fans who always want blood when things don't go well, but management needs to think about what's best for the team.
I will say that with his player decisions and the way they are playing, the situation bears watching.
I don't think that this season is a "punt". But I do think that this is the last down year this regime can have. The rest of the season must include not only ongoing vetting of players and coaches but those for a passion for the game as Ditka recently mentioned.
Someway,somehow they must restore the roar. We go through another GM/coach change we teeter on the brink of being like the Browns and Raiders of the league.
+1 That's pretty much how I feel about it too. I want to watch this 2nd season of the rebuilding effort, and see how it all unfolds over the course of the 16 games. I want to see who improves. I want to see who doesn't. I want to watch the coaches and how they respond to what looks like a brutal year (will the players quit on Fox like they quit on Trestman?).
Then I want to see the off-season moves, including the draft, free agency and coaching hires/fires. This will then be the 3rd year of the rebuilding effort. If the 2017 team looks substantially improved - especially over the 2014 Emery/Trestman team - then that's going to be good. But, if we don't see substantial improvement after 3 drafts, and 3 free agencies, and Fox having had 3 seasons to show what he can do with the talent acquired over the 3 years - then we have a problem.
I try to not be some nut case who expects a major rebuilding project to be completed in 1 year. I don't advocate firing the coaches after 2 games (how crazy is that?). But on the other hand, I don't expect Pace and Fox to have forever to show marked improvement either.
Three years is plenty of time to show substantial improvement. I am willing to be patient and give them that much time before I make a final judgement.
Ha ha, you are an optimist aren't you but OK, I'll play.
Tell me why after two FAs and two drafts that have already advertised substantial improvements in player personnel the results on the field haven't even been neutral? Even if we didn't show improvement game one should we have looked so bad for one half that it looked more like we we're playing our 3rd string against their starters.
That's very poor preparation brother.
We should have been better in game too then right? We even had an extra day of practice to prepare. Nope, different game same old shit.
So by game three we should not only have figured out how to make adjustments in the second half we should have come out of gate breathing fire ready to kick ass and take names. Nope, all of 4 first downs (meaningless), 3 points, TOP a little over 8 minutes vs 22 minute for those guys, and we're down 24-3 and the game is really over then.
This is not an improvement of any kind nor is it even neutral. It's backsliding and close enough to disaster for me to call it that because there isn't even one glimmer of better than I can even find to say anything good about except maybe that Massie didn't get hosed all night like he usually does. Not that it was any great accomplishment against that rush.
Why are we even talking about year three when we aren't even four games through the 2016 season and why isn't two offseasons enough to show progress for a team both our HC and GM insisted was not a rebuilding project. When John Fox was hired he was very clear about his intentions to win now.
I didn't expect the playoffs but I though 8-8 was doable and based on how we actually played sans those missed FGs and some really bad coverage mistakes that cost us two games I've actually given them the benefit of the doubt and called as good as an 8-8 season because everyone makes mistakes.
But they don't get to keep on making them and go 1-8 and about to be 1-9 at home and think their jobs are safe. Man if you're that lenient at work I'd love for you to be my boss and most everyone else would too. If we lose Sunday and also lose our next two NFCN games the best we can be is 2-6 at the bye and Fox will have lost 2/3rds of his games and be headed for the possibility of an even worse year this year than last.
I know we should wait 'til January for the final tally, even though in my world less than a .500 record at the bye would be enough for me to cut the cord, but since Ditka only two Bears HC have ever had a worse record in year two, one was Jauron and his ass was saved only by going 13-3 the next thanks to some Mike Brown heroics, before he faded into oblivion again after going one and done in the playoffs. The other was Trestman and we know what happened there.
So it is possible to fire a HC after two seasons even for the Bears.
All I want to know is how do you see us getting substantial improvement in year three when we're presently showing substantial backsliding in year two if it's the same guy running the show. He got more authority over everything this year than last and his team is even less prepared in September 2016 than they were in September of 2015 with a supposedly easier schedule and year two running the same offense, or at least it was supposed to be.
Having faith is good provided you can trust who you're putting your faith in and right now I have little to no faith in John Fox.
Hoyer wasn't that bad, but start Barkley. IF anything he could end up being decent
So just throw some more pasta at the wall to see if it sticks huh?
If we actually have an offense I'm betting Barkley doesn't know much of it by now so how do you dumb it down for him anymore than it already is. It would be in minus numbers.
Hoyer led an offense that held the ball for just over 8 minutes of a 30 minute half and had all of 4 first downs. How much better than that do you think Barkley would do with less than half a playbook to work from.
The defense is so banged up now we may not have enough of them to finish a game if they have to play more minutes than they already have. Barkley may of may not be marginally better than Fales. Hell there's little enough innovation and deception or execution for Cutler or Hoyer to work with. All we'd be doing is saving those two some abuse and passing it along to Barkley. Detroit has a much better pass rush than Dallas.
If Cutler plays, and I doubt he will, we might have one chance in ten of winning Sunday. Other than that I'd say no chance at all.
Post by germansbombedph on Sept 27, 2016 1:41:36 GMT -6
Cutler might be done for season if Fox says day to day. Hoyer isn't that great and we won't win many games this year. Play the unproven and unknown kid, hope it works out and if it doesn't you can always go back to below average and mediocre Hoyer.
I hate losing and want them to win as many games as they can, but reality says we are in the hunt for the top pick and a future Franchise QB
All I want to know is how do you see us getting substantial improvement in year three when we're presently showing substantial backsliding in year two if it's the same guy running the show. He got more authority over everything this year than last and his team is even less prepared in September 2016 than they were in September of 2015 with a supposedly easier schedule and year two running the same offense, or at least it was supposed to be.
Having faith is good provided you can trust who you're putting your faith in and right now I have little to no faith in John Fox.
All of your points are valid, Soul. I go back-and-forth on this almost daily. Even my posts here on the messageboard are not consistent on all of this. It is a very tough year to be a fan.
I figure Pace and Fox will have one more year, 2017, to prove themselves. That isn't my idea, but rather what I think will happen. Maybe Pace gets one more HC hire before he's fired though. I don't know.
I do know that continual changes in GM and coaching staffs result in a failed franchise. We've had 6 (3 GMs and 3 HCs) in 5 years. Nothing good comes of that. So consequently, I am hoping Pace and Fox can ultimately end up being good for the team. What do I base that on? Nothing. Admittedly mistakes have been made by both men. I don't think it is so much "faith" in them on my part, but rather "hope" that they can end up getting their act together. I don't think any of us are going to be thrilled if we add 2 more to that list of 6 GM/HC changes in the past 5 years. If 6 are bad, 8 could just extend the futility more years. And I actually liked the process they went through to hire Pace and Fox. If that failed, then I don't know what the answer is. I really don't
So, I'm in it for another year beyond this one. For better or for worse.
