I agree but would add the cavat that at some point soon (end of this season?) this improvement has to translate into wins. If by the end of this season, Gabert is still running for 56 yard TDs and hitting 75 yard game winning passes to Smith, or the OFF is still can't close out a game in the 4th quarter--time to give power back to Pace and put Fox on a short leash. After three years is too late IMO.
What is going to happen is this:
1. Bears go 6-10 with a combo of Cutler/Hoyer at QB. Cutler is cut/released/traded after the season and a rookie is drafted in the 2nd round. 2. The rookie doesn't beat out Hoyer in camp (and we are then told "This was the plan, for the rookie to sit behind Hoyer for a season.) The Bears wth Hoyer the Hope Destroyer at QB go 6-10. 3. Fox gets another year because rookie QB is going to now start. 4. Bears go 7-9 under the rookie, Fox gets another year because 'improvement.' 5. I die from a heart attack while yelling at the TV when Pace announces contract extensions for Fox and Loggains. (Fangio is now HC in Cleveland while the Fox hires Babich as DC.)
Saddest thing is that I'm a Bears lifer, (Damen and Addison baby) I'll be there the whole time with my hopes high. Bear Down Chicago Bears!!!
I don't think I like your vision!!!! I refuse this... it gets in the way of my back to back Super Bowl wins!!!!
I agree but would add the cavat that at some point soon (end of this season?) this improvement has to translate into wins. If by the end of this season, Gabert is still running for 56 yard TDs and hitting 75 yard game winning passes to Smith, or the OFF is still can't close out a game in the 4th quarter--time to give power back to Pace and put Fox on a short leash. After three years is too late IMO.
What is going to happen is this:
1. Bears go 6-10 with a combo of Cutler/Hoyer at QB. Cutler is cut/released/traded after the season and a rookie is drafted in the 2nd round. 2. The rookie doesn't beat out Hoyer in camp (and we are then told "This was the plan, for the rookie to sit behind Hoyer for a season.) The Bears wth Hoyer the Hope Destroyer at QB go 6-10. 3. Fox gets another year because rookie QB is going to now start. 4. Bears go 7-9 under the rookie, Fox gets another year because 'improvement.' 5. I die from a heart attack while yelling at the TV when Pace announces contract extensions for Fox and Loggains. (Fangio is now HC in Cleveland while the Fox hires Babich as DC.)
Saddest thing is that I'm a Bears lifer, (Damen and Addison baby) I'll be there the whole time with my hopes high. Bear Down Chicago Bears!!!
You could be right.
LOL, and with our luck, Tom Brady suffers a career ending injury this year and Belichick picks up Jay Cutler to replace him for the 2017 season. Jay, with the help of ex-Bear Marty Bennett, has an All-Pro season and leads the Pats to yet another Super Bowl win (Jay as the MVP of the SB too). Thousands of Bears fans then jump out of buildings after that, ending their life of pain as Bears fans :-)
I agree but would add the cavat that at some point soon (end of this season?) this improvement has to translate into wins. If by the end of this season, Gabert is still running for 56 yard TDs and hitting 75 yard game winning passes to Smith, or the OFF is still can't close out a game in the 4th quarter--time to give power back to Pace and put Fox on a short leash. After three years is too late IMO.
What is going to happen is this:
1. Bears go 6-10 with a combo of Cutler/Hoyer at QB. Cutler is cut/released/traded after the season and a rookie is drafted in the 2nd round. 2. The rookie doesn't beat out Hoyer in camp (and we are then told "This was the plan, for the rookie to sit behind Hoyer for a season.) The Bears wth Hoyer the Hope Destroyer at QB go 6-10. 3. Fox gets another year because rookie QB is going to now start. 4. Bears go 7-9 under the rookie, Fox gets another year because 'improvement.' 5. I die from a heart attack while yelling at the TV when Pace announces contract extensions for Fox and Loggains. (Fangio is now HC in Cleveland while the Fox hires Babich as DC.)
Saddest thing is that I'm a Bears lifer, (Damen and Addison baby) I'll be there the whole time with my hopes high. Bear Down Chicago Bears!!!
You could be right.
LOL, and with our luck, Tom Brady suffers a career ending injury this year and Belichick picks up Jay Cutler to replace him for the 2017 season. Jay, with the help of ex-Bear Marty Bennett, has an All-Pro season and leads the Pats to yet another Super Bowl win (Jay as the MVP of the SB too). Thousands of Bears fans then jump out of buildings after that, ending their life of pain as Bears fans :-)
Gonna see a lot of these posts this year. The two factions are forming it seems:
Those who think we need to get rid of Fox and co. after just 18 games (and counting). Those who think we need to steel ourselves and be patient.
Rash decisions and quick turnover, in my opinion, will leave as a bottom 5 franchise in the NFL for the next decade. Show some resolve, bear down, and give em some time. That's my mantra.
Going down the panic and dump everyone route is the surest way for the Bears to become the Cleveland Browns. I think we need to give the current regime at least three years before judging them.
I am not saying that I agree with everything that was (or will be) done or that I haven't scratched my head and had my share of WTF moments. Just that we have no idea what the whole picture is and will never know. The only basis for their success or failure will be the performance of the team over the long run.
Gonna see a lot of these posts this year. The two factions are forming it seems:
Those who think we need to get rid of Fox and co. after just 18 games (and counting). Those who think we need to steel ourselves and be patient.
Rash decisions and quick turnover, in my opinion, will leave as a bottom 5 franchise in the NFL for the next decade. Show some resolve, bear down, and give em some time. That's my mantra.
Going down the panic and dump everyone route is the surest way for the Bears to become the Cleveland Browns. I think we need to give the current regime at least three years before judging them.
I am not saying that I agree with everything that was (or will be) done or that I haven't scratched my head and had my share of WTF moments. Just that we have no idea what the whole picture is and will never know. The only basis for their success or failure will be the performance of the team over the long run.
That is exactly where I am at right now. If the team is still bad in 2017 then I'll be grabbing the torch and pitchfork too. And the people who called it before me can give me a hard time here :-)
For the first time ever I'm actually gonna agree with Ric and say that Cutler should be traded and the sooner the better but we would probably still disagree on the reason for it. Here's mine.
For many several years we've been told that this team has a much better chance of winning with Cutler as it's QB than QB X. I no longer believe that's true. I don't believe Fox will win with this team right now no matter who his QB is. If the chances of getting something more for Cutler now than we could get next spring are greater then do it and let Hoyer and Barkley have a shot at getting leveled for the next 14 games or winning if we can find a way to keep them upright.
I believe what Jon Gruden said is correct. Jay needs a change of scene and an honest chance to win for someone else somewhere else to either prove he is as good as most any other NFL QB or to fail and prove those who see him as little more than Jeff George v2.0 are correct. This team is going nowhere with or without Jay Cutler and whatever claims Fox and Pace have made to their plan to build around him and provide him with the tools he needs to win has once again failed.
If Fox couldn't avoid a total embarrassment in a Super Bowl with Payton Manning as his QB leading the #1 offense in the NFL how in the hell will he ever do it with Jay Cutler? In fact in four years of making the playoffs in Denver John Fox couldn't even manage a winning playoff record with Manning as his QB three or those four years and we're talking about a guy who may be the best QB to ever play in the NFL. So I give the chances of even making it to a SB with Jay Cutler as nil and that doesn't even consider his having to of the best young OCs running his offense while he coached in Denver. He has none of that to help him now and it shows.
So yes, let's move on from Jay ASAP. I'd rather go back to another decade of Grossmans and Ortons or a gamble on maybe drafting a younger more exciting QB than to keep reading more stories about how bad Jay Cutler is or debating his entire Bears career with Ric or anyone else any longer. It boring so let's move on and find out once and for all whose really been holding us back all this time. I'm dying to know myself.
Gonna see a lot of these posts this year. The two factions are forming it seems:
Those who think we need to get rid of Fox and co. after just 18 games (and counting). Those who think we need to steel ourselves and be patient.
Rash decisions and quick turnover, in my opinion, will leave as a bottom 5 franchise in the NFL for the next decade. Show some resolve, bear down, and give em some time. That's my mantra.
You want patience for Fox belli. Then show me progress. Quid pro quo. That's not a whole lot to ask for when it's what was promised is it or did I hear them incorrectly? They've had four shots now at improving this team with Cutler as the last holdover from the Lovie/JA era.......four.
Personnel wise they look much better on paper but somehow not on the playing field. So what does that tell us? If we've improved the caliber of the roster by that much why are we still getting our asses kicked not only on the road but at home as well. We're now 1-8 in our last nine home games.
It seems to me there are just three elements at play here. We have the front office which is essentially our GM and scouting department, our coaching staff, and our players. If the players are much better then it seems to leave them out of the equation and also casts a doubt that it's the GM and his staff so whose left?
Since the last Super Bowl many of us, me included, have spent months and even years ignoring the most obvious stuff that has always been parked right in front of our noses. I'm not willing to do that any longer. Optimistic opinions and blind hope and trust can't substitute for facts any longer. From now on I'm all about facts and the fact is we're 0-2, playing on the road with backup QB, and have a injury list and IR that looks like we just survived a terrorist attack.
It's not a fact that we can't win but since opinions often substitute for fact around forums like this lets just say my opinion of our chances is not a very good one. So that'll be an 0-3 start with a NFCN foe next week who have won the last 6 games. It's a little tough to be optimistic these days.
Gonna see a lot of these posts this year. The two factions are forming it seems:
Those who think we need to get rid of Fox and co. after just 18 games (and counting). Those who think we need to steel ourselves and be patient.
Rash decisions and quick turnover, in my opinion, will leave as a bottom 5 franchise in the NFL for the next decade. Show some resolve, bear down, and give em some time. That's my mantra.
It seems to me there are just three elements at play here. We have the front office which is essentially our GM and scouting department, our coaching staff, and our players. If the players are much better then it seems to leave them out of the equation and also casts a doubt that it's the GM and his staff so whose left?
OMG!!!! I almost have it! Wait..... it's one of the three elements, isn't it?
It seems to me there are just three elements at play here. We have the front office which is essentially our GM and scouting department, our coaching staff, and our players. If the players are much better then it seems to leave them out of the equation and also casts a doubt that it's the GM and his staff so whose left?
OMG!!!! I almost have it! Wait..... it's one of the three elements, isn't it?
Nah, I was just kidding it actually the Fourth and Fifth Element. Meet our new HC and OC.
I don't think that this season is a "punt". But I do think that this is the last down year this regime can have. The rest of the season must include not only ongoing vetting of players and coaches but those for a passion for the game as Ditka recently mentioned.
Someway,somehow they must restore the roar. We go through another GM/coach change we teeter on the brink of being like the Browns and Raiders of the league.
+1 That's pretty much how I feel about it too. I want to watch this 2nd season of the rebuilding effort, and see how it all unfolds over the course of the 16 games. I want to see who improves. I want to see who doesn't. I want to watch the coaches and how they respond to what looks like a brutal year (will the players quit on Fox like they quit on Trestman?).
Then I want to see the off-season moves, including the draft, free agency and coaching hires/fires. This will then be the 3rd year of the rebuilding effort. If the 2017 team looks substantially improved - especially over the 2014 Emery/Trestman team - then that's going to be good. But, if we don't see substantial improvement after 3 drafts, and 3 free agencies, and Fox having had 3 seasons to show what he can do with the talent acquired over the 3 years - then we have a problem.
I try to not be some nut case who expects a major rebuilding project to be completed in 1 year. I don't advocate firing the coaches after 2 games (how crazy is that?). But on the other hand, I don't expect Pace and Fox to have forever to show marked improvement either.
Three years is plenty of time to show substantial improvement. I am willing to be patient and give them that much time before I make a final judgement.
I am not going to struggle to dislike what I have seen so far and like JABF says, I guess we have to give it one more year. But if this year shows anything it is that Fox seems to concentrate more on D than O IMHO. I really want to see them focus on drafting a good QB next year. Hell it may not even be a true franchise QB. Look at the early success that Phili and Dallas had against us with non franchise QB's. But then again lately we make any QB look like all world.