They are? If receivers are so easy to find...how come we haven't found any?
And no...Beasely doesn't do much else aside rush the passer. They tried last year to have him do some work in coverage...it didn't go well.
You got to look for them. Outside of Kevin White, he hasn't attempted to look for a #1 or #2 WR.
That's about 3 years of him not looking.
But it's so easy you say. And we shouldn't take them in the first round. So I ask again...how come we haven't found any? And don't tell me Pace hasn't looked...we've brought in plenty of receivers.
You got to look for them. Outside of Kevin White, he hasn't attempted to look for a #1 or #2 WR.
That's about 3 years of him not looking.
But it's so easy you say. And we shouldn't take them in the first round. So I ask again...how come we haven't found any? And don't tell me Pace hasn't looked...we've brought in plenty of receivers.
How many WRs have Pace attempted to draft after Kevin White #7 overall pick 2015?
How about with FAs? Well, going by his track record. He doesn't go after them prime players and rather go after those injury prone players or those guys who are at the end of their career.
Again these are Pace mistakes, you're not going to get a WR if you never attempt to find one.
The only WR pace got after Kevin White was Cameron Meredith ( Undrafted) and he was our best WR last year beating out Alshon Jeffery in yards while not even starting until week 5.
Many WRs coming off of their contract year and some will be in the market. We got the cap space to sign one. Its all on Pace if he's going to go the cheap route or be willing to get quality talent.
You got to look for them. Outside of Kevin White, he hasn't attempted to look for a #1 or #2 WR.
That's about 3 years of him not looking.
But it's so easy you say. And we shouldn't take them in the first round. So I ask again...how come we haven't found any? And don't tell me Pace hasn't looked...we've brought in plenty of receivers.te
It’s pretty damn hard to defend the White pick. Good luck with that one. He was a poor choice for multiple reasons we’ve been over here ad nauseum. Those precede his 3 season-ending injuries.
And MOTM’s overall point is correct. You don’t need to to use top-10 picks on WRs. Very very few are worth that. With rare exception, top-10 picks should be QBs, LTs, or pass-rushers and that’s especially true for teams just starting a multi-year rebuild.
But it's so easy you say. And we shouldn't take them in the first round. So I ask again...how come we haven't found any? And don't tell me Pace hasn't looked...we've brought in plenty of receivers.te
It’s pretty damn hard to defend the White pick. Good luck with that one. He was a poor choice for multiple reasons we’ve been over here ad nauseum. Those precede his 3 season-ending injuries.
And MOTM’s overall point is correct. You don’t need to to use top-10 picks on WRs. Very very few are worth that. With rare exception, top-10 picks should be QBs, LTs, or pass-rushers and that’s especially true for teams just starting a multi-year rebuild.
top 10 picks are regularly made w/players outside of QB's LT's and passrushers; there just arent enough of any of those to all be top 10 picks. CB's S's WR's and even RB's and regularly fall into the top 10, basically after the top 5.
You can find great players at any position outside of the top 10. The Bears, b/c they wanted to move on from Marshal, needed to replace a high level WR w/another potential high level WR. Top WR's normally are in the league a long time also, not sure why getting one in a multi year rebuild has anything to do w/it. Team needed O and D help, more O then D even at that time.
It’s pretty damn hard to defend the White pick. Good luck with that one. He was a poor choice for multiple reasons we’ve been over here ad nauseum. Those precede his 3 season-ending injuries.
And MOTM’s overall point is correct. You don’t need to to use top-10 picks on WRs. Very very few are worth that. With rare exception, top-10 picks should be QBs, LTs, or pass-rushers and that’s especially true for teams just starting a multi-year rebuild.
top 10 picks are regularly made w/players outside of QB's LT's and passrushers; there just arent enough of any of those to all be top 10 picks. CB's S's WR's and even RB's and regularly fall into the top 10, basically after the top 5.
You can find great players at any position outside of the top 10. The Bears, b/c they wanted to move on from Marshal, needed to replace a high level WR w/another potential high level WR. Top WR's normally are in the league a long time also, not sure why getting one in a multi year rebuild has anything to do w/it. Team needed O and D help, more O then D even at that time.
I remember you railing just last spring against the idea of us drafting a DB up high. You were totally oppposed even though we had needs at both CB and S. Yes, I know other positions get drafted up high but that doesn’t make it smart in many situations.
QBs, LTs, & Pass rushers affect games much more than DBs and WRs do. Those positions aren’t nearly as available down draft either. This isn’t rocket science or voodoo. A team just starting a total rebuild needs to use a #7 pick on a WR (a project WR to boot) about as much as a 18yo kid needs to spend his college fund on a sports car.
top 10 picks are regularly made w/players outside of QB's LT's and passrushers; there just arent enough of any of those to all be top 10 picks. CB's S's WR's and even RB's and regularly fall into the top 10, basically after the top 5.
You can find great players at any position outside of the top 10. The Bears, b/c they wanted to move on from Marshal, needed to replace a high level WR w/another potential high level WR. Top WR's normally are in the league a long time also, not sure why getting one in a multi year rebuild has anything to do w/it. Team needed O and D help, more O then D even at that time.
I remember you railing just last spring against the idea of us drafting a DB up high. You were totally oppposed even though we had needs at both CB and S. Yes, I know other positions get drafted up high but that doesn’t make it smart in many situations.
QBs, LTs, & Pass rushers affect games much more than DBs and WRs do. Those positions aren’t nearly as available down draft either. This isn’t rocket science or voodoo. A team just starting a total rebuild needs to use a #7 pick on a WR (a project WR to boot) about as much as a 18yo kid needs to spend his college fund on a sports car.
A DB at 3, not up high; specifically a S. There is a difference in what happens in the first 3-4 picks and what happens from 5-10. First 1-4 picks are almost always a QB passrusher or LT; no doubt. From 5 on it's not uncommon for it to be other wr's.
No doubt the WR's don't effect the game like other positions, but when you don't have an elite(all pro/HoF) qb then you need at least one top teir WR. A Julio Jones, Brandon Marshal, Fitzpatrick, Andre Jones, Calvin Johnson, Boldin, Steve Smith SR, Antonio Brown. Ya you could luck into those in the later rounds, but like RB, you have to shift through all the garbage that is going to completely fail to find those diamonds. Trubs was a "project qb", Floyd was a "project OLB" If they have the raw talent then they will succeed. White didn't fail b/c he couldn't play, he failed b/c he suffered multiple injuries; this happens, and not just ot WR's, it can happen to any positional player.
I remember you railing just last spring against the idea of us drafting a DB up high. You were totally oppposed even though we had needs at both CB and S. Yes, I know other positions get drafted up high but that doesn’t make it smart in many situations.
QBs, LTs, & Pass rushers affect games much more than DBs and WRs do. Those positions aren’t nearly as available down draft either. This isn’t rocket science or voodoo. A team just starting a total rebuild needs to use a #7 pick on a WR (a project WR to boot) about as much as a 18yo kid needs to spend his college fund on a sports car.
A DB at 3, not up high; specifically a S. There is a difference in what happens in the first 3-4 picks and what happens from 5-10. First 1-4 picks are almost always a QB passrusher or LT; no doubt. From 5 on it's not uncommon for it to be other wr's.
No doubt the WR's don't effect the game like other positions, but when you don't have an elite(all pro/HoF) qb then you need at least one top teir WR. A Julio Jones, Brandon Marshal, Fitzpatrick, Andre Jones, Calvin Johnson, Boldin, Steve Smith SR, Antonio Brown. Ya you could luck into those in the later rounds, but like RB, you have to shift through all the garbage that is going to completely fail to find those diamonds. Trubs was a "project qb", Floyd was a "project OLB" If they have the raw talent then they will succeed. White didn't fail b/c he couldn't play, he failed b/c he suffered multiple injuries; this happens, and not just ot WR's, it can happen to any positional player.
Fitzgerald, Johnson, and Julio are about the only ones who were taken top-10 and worth it. In other words, players who were clearly rare talents at their position. None of them have ever won a SB in roughly 25 combined seasons in the league. It appears even having a generational elite WR doesn’t win championships.
Antonio Brown btw was a 7th round pick and Marshall was a 3rd. Which shows you can readily find talent, even pro bowl talent, at WR well past the top-10. It’s like Center. If you’re gonna draft a C in the 1st, he better be a cant miss, once a decade type prospect because starting Centers are often available in the late draft or even UDFA markets.
We are going to undoubtedly be in need of major help at both WR and OLB this April and will very likely be picking top-10 again. I really hope Ryan Pace has learned something about positional value and drafts OLB over WR in the 1st unless there’s a dramatic diffecerence in the available talent.
A DB at 3, not up high; specifically a S. There is a difference in what happens in the first 3-4 picks and what happens from 5-10. First 1-4 picks are almost always a QB passrusher or LT; no doubt. From 5 on it's not uncommon for it to be other wr's.
No doubt the WR's don't effect the game like other positions, but when you don't have an elite(all pro/HoF) qb then you need at least one top teir WR. A Julio Jones, Brandon Marshal, Fitzpatrick, Andre Jones, Calvin Johnson, Boldin, Steve Smith SR, Antonio Brown. Ya you could luck into those in the later rounds, but like RB, you have to shift through all the garbage that is going to completely fail to find those diamonds. Trubs was a "project qb", Floyd was a "project OLB" If they have the raw talent then they will succeed. White didn't fail b/c he couldn't play, he failed b/c he suffered multiple injuries; this happens, and not just ot WR's, it can happen to any positional player.
Fitzgerald, Johnson, and Julio are about the only ones who were taken top-10 and worth it. In other words, players who were clearly rare talents at their position. None of them have ever won a SB in roughly 25 combined seasons in the league. It appears even having a generational elite WR doesn’t win championships.
Antonio Brown btw was a 7th round pick and Marshall was a 3rd. Which shows you can readily find talent, even pro bowl talent, at WR well past the top-10. It’s like Center. If you’re gonna draft a C in the 1st, he better be a cant miss, once a decade type prospect because starting Centers are often available in the late draft or even UDFA markets.
We are going to undoubtedly be in need of major help at both WR and OLB this April and will very likely be picking top-10 again. I really hope Ryan Pace has learned something about positional value and drafts OLB over WR in the 1st unless there’s a dramatic diffecerence in the available talent.
And since you mention it, possibly C also. I thought that was taken care of but not sure any more.
A DB at 3, not up high; specifically a S. There is a difference in what happens in the first 3-4 picks and what happens from 5-10. First 1-4 picks are almost always a QB passrusher or LT; no doubt. From 5 on it's not uncommon for it to be other wr's.
No doubt the WR's don't effect the game like other positions, but when you don't have an elite(all pro/HoF) qb then you need at least one top teir WR. A Julio Jones, Brandon Marshal, Fitzpatrick, Andre Jones, Calvin Johnson, Boldin, Steve Smith SR, Antonio Brown. Ya you could luck into those in the later rounds, but like RB, you have to shift through all the garbage that is going to completely fail to find those diamonds. Trubs was a "project qb", Floyd was a "project OLB" If they have the raw talent then they will succeed. White didn't fail b/c he couldn't play, he failed b/c he suffered multiple injuries; this happens, and not just ot WR's, it can happen to any positional player.
Fitzgerald, Johnson, and Julio are about the only ones who were taken top-10 and worth it. In other words, players who were clearly rare talents at their position. None of them have ever won a SB in roughly 25 combined seasons in the league. It appears even having a generational elite WR doesn’t win championships.
Antonio Brown btw was a 7th round pick and Marshall was a 3rd. Which shows you can readily find talent, even pro bowl talent, at WR well past the top-10. It’s like Center. If you’re gonna draft a C in the 1st, he better be a cant miss, once a decade type prospect because starting Centers are often available in the late draft or even UDFA markets.
We are going to undoubtedly be in need of major help at both WR and OLB this April and will very likely be picking top-10 again. I really hope Ryan Pace has learned something about positional value and drafts OLB over WR in the 1st unless there’s a dramatic diffecerence in the available talent.
Again, you CAN find that talent in any round, for any position, but you have to shift through a lot more stuff that will not make the nfl then you do in the first round or 2, especially in the top 10. Just like you CAN find a guy like Howard at RB, but you have to shift through a lot of Carey's and Langfords and the sorts to find them.
Again, not every OLB/pass rusher in the top 10 is a hit, and not every top 10 WR is a bust. It's just not how any of this works. You take the guy w/the most upside that will have the greatest impact for your team. White barring injury should have had great impact for the Bears; but shit happens.
Fitzgerald, Johnson, and Julio are about the only ones who were taken top-10 and worth it. In other words, players who were clearly rare talents at their position. None of them have ever won a SB in roughly 25 combined seasons in the league. It appears even having a generational elite WR doesn’t win championships.
Antonio Brown btw was a 7th round pick and Marshall was a 3rd. Which shows you can readily find talent, even pro bowl talent, at WR well past the top-10. It’s like Center. If you’re gonna draft a C in the 1st, he better be a cant miss, once a decade type prospect because starting Centers are often available in the late draft or even UDFA markets.
We are going to undoubtedly be in need of major help at both WR and OLB this April and will very likely be picking top-10 again. I really hope Ryan Pace has learned something about positional value and drafts OLB over WR in the 1st unless there’s a dramatic diffecerence in the available talent.
Again, you CAN find that talent in any round, for any position, but you have to shift through a lot more stuff that will not make the nfl then you do in the first round or 2, especially in the top 10. Just like you CAN find a guy like Howard at RB, but you have to shift through a lot of Carey's and Langfords and the sorts to find them.
Again, not every OLB/pass rusher in the top 10 is a hit, and not every top 10 WR is a bust. It's just not how any of this works. You take the guy w/the most upside that will have the greatest impact for your team. White barring injury should have had great impact for the Bears; but shit happens.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. If there’s a clear talent difference, obviously you go with the better talent over everything else. But.....if the talent level is similar (as it often is past the first 2-3 picks), take the position that’s gonna have the greater impact if the pick pans out. No one is saying that all picks of one position “hit” or all picks of another “bust”. It’s about greater positional value IF they work out. A WR just doesn’t affect games that way a pass rusher (or LT) does at equivalent levels of ability.
As for Kevin White specifically, yeah he was a “Home run or whiff” type selection which seems especially odd for a team just starting a major rebuild and years away from being a serious contender. Might have made sense for a team that already had a good core and just needed one explosive playmaking piece on offense to put them over the top, but was stupid in a situation where basic, foundational pieces were lacking. Let’s not forget that KW was a 1 year college producer with a track-star limited repertoire and only shot up the draft boards after he blew up the Combine. He was the classic “better athlete than actual football player” type and therefore a high risk/reward type of pick. That’s really seems like a silly choice for a brand new GM to make on his first ever draft pick for a team desperately in need of getting just the basics in place.
I know this is going to create inevitable comparisons to Trub (a pick I fully supported and still do) but sorry QBs are different. There are very very few truly “NFL ready” QBs any more so virtually all of them are drafted as projects. And they are so valuable and coveted that you almost always have to spend a top-10/15 pick to get one that has franchise starting talent and potential.