Fox and the offensive coaches need to be replaced. Defensive coaches need to stay. It's as simple as that.
That's actually not simple at all... Not sure why Fangio and the D staff who are connected to Fox and believe in his approach to football would want to stay around a city and a team whose fan base and GM have shown no support for that style of football. Fangio is as conservative a defensive coordinator as you get and the notion that he's going to bring in an attack dog OC that puts the defense in difficult situations is mind boggling to me.
I imagine the only way Pace keeps Fangio is if he fires Fox mid season, promotes Fangio to HC and then offers him a lucrative deal (which ain't happening). Fangio is going to be a hot HC candidate this year if the defense continues to be this productive.
One other thing people seem to forget or overlook or just flat out under appreciate about Fox is his institutional knowledge and network. Fox is very well connected in the league and one of the most under appreciated aspects of his position as HC is his ability to fill out the coaching staff with talented coaches. We overlook that but it's a big deal and a big consideration changing the HC . When the HC goes, typically the entire coaching structure goes and the players spend the off-season and the following year - typically - learning the new language of the playbook and the new focus points of the coaches.
Fox and the offensive coaches need to be replaced. Defensive coaches need to stay. It's as simple as that.
That's actually not simple at all... Not sure why Fangio and the D staff who are connected to Fox and believe in his approach to football would want to stay around a city and a team whose fan base and GM have shown no support for that style of football. Fangio is as conservative a defensive coordinator as you get and the notion that he's going to bring in an attack dog OC that puts the defense in difficult situations is mind boggling to me.
I imagine the only way Pace keeps Fangio is if he fires Fox mid season, promotes Fangio to HC and then offers him a lucrative deal (which ain't happening). Fangio is going to be a hot HC candidate this year if the defense continues to be this productive.
One other thing people seem to forget or overlook or just flat out under appreciate about Fox is his institutional knowledge and network. Fox is very well connected in the league and one of the most under appreciated aspects of his position as HC is his ability to fill out the coaching staff with talented coaches. We overlook that but it's a big deal and a big consideration changing the HC . When the HC goes, typically the entire coaching structure goes and the players spend the off-season and the following year - typically - learning the new language of the playbook and the new focus points of the coaches.
Not sure how you would know that. Just because Fox hired them? I remember there being a row between Fangio and Fox. Or at least a rumored row. We don't know that he believes in his approach. We know he works for Fox under contract.
I'll say this much. If Pace has any thoughts of keeping Fangio as HC now would probably be the best time to fire Fox and allow Fangio to use the next eight games as an audition.
This next HC hire has to be the right one. Fangio has done a terrific job with defense but can he manage an entire team? If Pace has any doubts and feels that if he passes Fangio over like Emery did with Toub that he'll lose him then he needs to know beyond a shadow of doubt whether Vic is his guy.
Fox and the offensive coaches need to be replaced. Defensive coaches need to stay. It's as simple as that.
That's actually not simple at all... Not sure why Fangio and the D staff who are connected to Fox and believe in his approach to football would want to stay around a city and a team whose fan base and GM have shown no support for that style of football. Fangio is as conservative a defensive coordinator as you get and the notion that he's going to bring in an attack dog OC that puts the defense in difficult situations is mind boggling to me.
I imagine the only way Pace keeps Fangio is if he fires Fox mid season, promotes Fangio to HC and then offers him a lucrative deal (which ain't happening). Fangio is going to be a hot HC candidate this year if the defense continues to be this productive.
One other thing people seem to forget or overlook or just flat out under appreciate about Fox is his institutional knowledge and network. Fox is very well connected in the league and one of the most under appreciated aspects of his position as HC is his ability to fill out the coaching staff with talented coaches. We overlook that but it's a big deal and a big consideration changing the HC . When the HC goes, typically the entire coaching structure goes and the players spend the off-season and the following year - typically - learning the new language of the playbook and the new focus points of the coaches.
I thought the same thing about it not being simple/easy. You make some good points there.
That's actually not simple at all... Not sure why Fangio and the D staff who are connected to Fox and believe in his approach to football would want to stay around a city and a team whose fan base and GM have shown no support for that style of football. Fangio is as conservative a defensive coordinator as you get and the notion that he's going to bring in an attack dog OC that puts the defense in difficult situations is mind boggling to me.
I imagine the only way Pace keeps Fangio is if he fires Fox mid season, promotes Fangio to HC and then offers him a lucrative deal (which ain't happening). Fangio is going to be a hot HC candidate this year if the defense continues to be this productive.
One other thing people seem to forget or overlook or just flat out under appreciate about Fox is his institutional knowledge and network. Fox is very well connected in the league and one of the most under appreciated aspects of his position as HC is his ability to fill out the coaching staff with talented coaches. We overlook that but it's a big deal and a big consideration changing the HC . When the HC goes, typically the entire coaching structure goes and the players spend the off-season and the following year - typically - learning the new language of the playbook and the new focus points of the coaches.
Not sure how you would know that. Just because Fox hired them? I remember there being a row between Fangio and Fox. Or at least a rumored row. We don't know that he believes in his approach. We know he works for Fox under contract.
Go back and look at Fangio's coaching history with Carolina, Houston, Indianapolis, Stanford, San Fran, and now the Bears. Fangio's always run an extremely conservative defense. Additionally, just in thinking logically about the situation, Fangio could have gone to any number of teams as a DC. He'd just finished his work in San Fran with a top tier defense. He was an HC candidate. You think he was going to have a hard time finding a DC job? No. So what would make coming to the putrid rebuilding Bear's desirable? I'd wager a lot of it has to deal with the HC and a matching philosophy. Especially when you look at Fangio's history - the coaches he's been with and the offenses they've run. With the exception of Indy in the late 90s under Jim Mora when Peyton Manning was starting to thrive - he's been with ground and pound offenses - offenses that stress running the ball and managing the clock (which is exactly what Jim Harbaugh is known for).
I'll say this much. If Pace has any thoughts of keeping Fangio as HC now would probably be the best time to fire Fox and allow Fangio to use the next eight games as an audition.
This next HC hire has to be the right one. Fangio has done a terrific job with defense but can he manage an entire team? If Pace has any doubts and feels that if he passes Fangio over like Emery did with Toub that he'll lose him then he needs to know beyond a shadow of doubt whether Vic is his guy.
There won't be any better time to do it than now.
I was thinking the exact same thing Soul brother.
IIRC not long ago we were all discussing an article indicating that if Fox is fired the Bears may choose to promote from within suggesting that either Fangio or Loggains are prospects. It would be nearly impossible to believe Loggains has the experience to get that nod so that would leave Fangio.
If there are any serious thoughts about that at all then I would think they'd want to evaluate how the team responds under Fangio before committing to him for three or four years. I know I would. This is a coaching hire they can't afford to blow and I'm not 100% convinced Fangio is the right guy.
I can't see what damage a move like this would cause provided they are committed to moving on from Fox after this season. It's not gonna negatively impact Trubisky and I don't believe it would necessarily result in more wins either but it would give them a shot at seeing how well Fangio can handle scheming the entire team and not just the defense.
They certainly wouldn't be the first NFL team in history to fire a HC mid season and ask one of the other coaches to assume an interim role. But, the fact that it didn't happen today tells me that it's probably not going to period.
IIRC not long ago we were all discussing an article indicating that if Fox is fired the Bears may choose to promote from within suggesting that either Fangio or Loggains are prospects. It would be nearly impossible to believe Loggains has the experience to get that nod so that would leave Fangio.
If there are any serious thoughts about that at all then I would think they'd want to evaluate how the team responds under Fangio before committing to him for three or four years. I know I would. This is a coaching hire they can't afford to blow and I'm not 100% convinced Fangio is the right guy.
I can't see what damage a move like this would cause provided they are committed to moving on from Fox after this season. It's not gonna negatively impact Trubisky and I don't believe it would necessarily result in more wins either but it would give them a shot at seeing how well Fangio can handle scheming the entire team and not just the defense.
They certainly wouldn't be the first NFL team in history to fire a HC mid season and ask one of the other coaches to assume an interim role. But, the fact that it didn't happen today tells me that it's probably not going to period.
I have said the same thing. If the intent is Fangio at HC, that is not a sure thing. If they know they are going to ditch Fox regardless, make the change and see how Fangio does. That way you can go for someone else if it doesn't work out well, but you would almost lose him for sure at that point.
IIRC not long ago we were all discussing an article indicating that if Fox is fired the Bears may choose to promote from within suggesting that either Fangio or Loggains are prospects. It would be nearly impossible to believe Loggains has the experience to get that nod so that would leave Fangio.
If there are any serious thoughts about that at all then I would think they'd want to evaluate how the team responds under Fangio before committing to him for three or four years. I know I would. This is a coaching hire they can't afford to blow and I'm not 100% convinced Fangio is the right guy.
I can't see what damage a move like this would cause provided they are committed to moving on from Fox after this season. It's not gonna negatively impact Trubisky and I don't believe it would necessarily result in more wins either but it would give them a shot at seeing how well Fangio can handle scheming the entire team and not just the defense.
They certainly wouldn't be the first NFL team in history to fire a HC mid season and ask one of the other coaches to assume an interim role. But, the fact that it didn't happen today tells me that it's probably not going to period.
I have said the same thing. If the intent is Fangio at HC, that is not a sure thing. If they know they are going to ditch Fox regardless, make the change and see how Fangio does. That way you can go for someone else if it doesn't work out well, but you would almost lose him for sure at that point.
What always steams me is the ****ed up way Phillips and McCaskey go at this. If they're all worried that firing Fox would cause embarrassment by now that should be the least of their worries. Fox has given them every excuse to do it.
If this forum is a microcosm of Bears fans in general I don't think I'd be far off saying at least 2/3 or more favor firing Fox anytime now and that this bye week is as good a time as any. Had the NOLA game resulted in a third straight win that may have backed a few off but most of us who've followed this team for ages don't see all that much improvement across the board. If anything this is no more than the the type of play we expected last season. So once again Fox is a day late and a dollar short.
It's like it's either paralysis by analysis or they simply won't make any aggressive moves period. Yeah, firing a HC in mid season is aggressive but when he's the second worst HC in your teams history maybe some aggression is called for and it certainly wouldn't be an unpopular move. In fact I think the Chicago media might even praise them for a change. It's all of this aw shucks and kicking the can down the road that is turning me off on even watching them play these days. The outcomes are so predictable I can just follow it with an online play by play and at least a dozen times a game laugh and say that figures just as I did after Barth missed that FG. Even those have become predictable if they're over 40 yards.
For the life of me I can't figure out how they will ever re-establish this team as that kind of hard hitting take no prisoners style team the '80s Bears became because GSH saw to it they did. Shit, he's probably spinning in his grave over what this team has become. When there's no aggressiveness in the front office and no aggressiveness on the part of the HC the team is not gonna magically turn into the '80s Bears again and THAT is what Bears fans would like to see. That's the kind of ass kicking football the Bears reputation was always built on not this bullshit.
So I'm just gonna keep on saying John Fox is not the right HC for this team and he never has been but the two guys at the very top are so inept I question whether they will ever get this right until THEY stop trying to and hire someone who can.
IIRC not long ago we were all discussing an article indicating that if Fox is fired the Bears may choose to promote from within suggesting that either Fangio or Loggains are prospects. It would be nearly impossible to believe Loggains has the experience to get that nod so that would leave Fangio.
If there are any serious thoughts about that at all then I would think they'd want to evaluate how the team responds under Fangio before committing to him for three or four years. I know I would. This is a coaching hire they can't afford to blow and I'm not 100% convinced Fangio is the right guy.
I can't see what damage a move like this would cause provided they are committed to moving on from Fox after this season. It's not gonna negatively impact Trubisky and I don't believe it would necessarily result in more wins either but it would give them a shot at seeing how well Fangio can handle scheming the entire team and not just the defense.
They certainly wouldn't be the first NFL team in history to fire a HC mid season and ask one of the other coaches to assume an interim role. But, the fact that it didn't happen today tells me that it's probably not going to period.
As long as we stay competitive I don't see it happening either. I do think Fangio is a damn good DC but we don't know if he would be a good HC & unfortunately probably won't find out this year. My guess is he won't stick around next year on a one year contract but ya never know. I think he will have better opportunities.
My guess is if the Bears continue to improve & somehow finish at 500 or better Fox will be back next year. Less than 7 wins & I think he's gone. The tough part for me is I can't root for the Bears to lose but I've had enough of Fox. What I'd like to see is we hire a good offensive minded coach & keep Fangio & the rest of the defensive staff. Probably won't happen. Time will tell.
If they were going to make a change to elevate Fangio to try him, they would have done it. At this point, the train is going to follow the usual path. No change until the end of the season. Assuming they make a change, of course.