I can't. Unless I had a time machine and could try both. But it's still what I firmly believe.
People firmly believe that the earth is flat, doesn't make it true. Again, HC's, highly over rated, they win w/and b/c of the talent on the field. It's not like there is some great scheme out there that they are running that no other team knows about or runs.
How is that a fact and not your opinion? I can turn around and say that talent is over rated without a good coach leading them. And that would be my opinion --- just as that was yours.
Show my the teams that won b/c of the HC w/out talent behind them and you will have a point.
Again: Billy B in cleveland, loser and not HC material, Billy B w/NE, Brady and various other HoF players, HoF HC. Ditka w/an over abundance of HoF talent SB winner and beloved "dacoach" W/out that talent, laughing stock of NO's. Lovie w/BU Tillman and other pro bowl lvl talent, great coach, lost that talent, got fired, got fired again, and is terrible in college.
Lets do the reverse. SF tons of talent gets the the championship game 3 times, sb 1 time, fires HC, they cannot win.
If you need both why did Gruden and Switzer win SB rings? Neither are good HC's, as proof of what they did afterwards.
case made, your turn.
*obviously there is a floor for all this. You and I couldn't be HC's in the NFL and win in NE or Atl right now.
Show my the teams that won b/c of the HC w/out talent behind them and you will have a point.
Again: Billy B in cleveland, loser and not HC material, Billy B w/NE, Brady and various other HoF players, HoF HC. Ditka w/an over abundance of HoF talent SB winner and beloved "dacoach" W/out that talent, laughing stock of NO's. Lovie w/BU Tillman and other pro bowl lvl talent, great coach, lost that talent, got fired, got fired again, and is terrible in college.
Lets do the reverse. SF tons of talent gets the the championship game 3 times, sb 1 time, fires HC, they cannot win.
If you need both why did Gruden and Switzer win SB rings? Neither are good HC's, as proof of what they did afterwards.
case made, your turn.
*obviously there is a floor for all this. You and I couldn't be HC's in the NFL and win in NE or Atl right now.
Well, first.... that's not the point I want to make. I want to make the point that you need both.
and yeah... lol... Switzer is the poster boy for no HC but a win. I'd have to go back and see who his coordinators were though. Same as Fox -- that will be the only way he wins. With great coordinators (and players).
So take two of the best coaches in history. Lombardi and Belichick. You honestly going to tell me that you put a Switzer in for either and you have the same record over the long haul. Sorry.... that's laughable. Coaches DO make a difference. Talent DOES make a difference. I see you want it to be only about talent, but sorry, IMO it just isn't.
Show my the teams that won b/c of the HC w/out talent behind them and you will have a point.
Again: Billy B in cleveland, loser and not HC material, Billy B w/NE, Brady and various other HoF players, HoF HC. Ditka w/an over abundance of HoF talent SB winner and beloved "dacoach" W/out that talent, laughing stock of NO's. Lovie w/BU Tillman and other pro bowl lvl talent, great coach, lost that talent, got fired, got fired again, and is terrible in college.
Lets do the reverse. SF tons of talent gets the the championship game 3 times, sb 1 time, fires HC, they cannot win.
If you need both why did Gruden and Switzer win SB rings? Neither are good HC's, as proof of what they did afterwards.
case made, your turn.
*obviously there is a floor for all this. You and I couldn't be HC's in the NFL and win in NE or Atl right now.
Well, first.... that's not the point I want to make. I want to make the point that you need both.
and yeah... lol... Switzer is the poster boy for no HC but a win. I'd have to go back and see who his coordinators were though. Same as Fox -- that will be the only way he wins. With great coordinators (and players).
So take two of the best coaches in history. Lombardi and Belichick. You honestly going to tell me that you put a Switzer in for either and you have the same record over the long haul. Sorry.... that's laughable. Coaches DO make a difference. Talent DOES make a difference. I see you want it to be only about talent, but sorry, IMO it just isn't.
The difference comes in when acquiring talent, Billy B and Lombo were great at getting the talent needed to work w/in their system. That's what hurts guys like Gruden, Lovie, Switzer, Trestman. But Trestman was never given a chance to acquire the talent he would have wanted for his system. He was stuck w/a dip shit at qb, and petulant children on the def that didn't want him to succeed and a GM that was more interested in making a name for himself and expected the HC to just do what the GM wanted. Fox on the other hand has been working w/Pace to bring in the talent he wants, he's removed 99% of the roster over 2 years and it's only gotten worse, but he's a better HC then Trestman obviously right? Problem w/Trestman is he's better at coaching and teaching then he is at leading which is why he succeeded in the CFL, guys at this level need to be led.
and btw, thats the #1 reason I wanted Lovie fired, he couldn't find the very players he needed to run his system, it's not his playcalling, or his demeanor it was his inability to bring in talented players to make the bears a consistent playoff winner.
As much as I never wanted Fox, and wish he would get fired, no one was going to win here w/this roster. The talent level isn't there. People point to how great Shea has been for NE, bs, Shea has been Shea for NE they just don't expect anymore or less out of him then what he is, a guy that might make a play, maybe 2 a game. His #'s are basically the same there as they were in Chicago, and he's only started 4 games for them.
Look at the turnovers over the last several years, bottom of the league. Coaches cannot teach turn overs, you have to have guys that are talented enough to make them happen. Peanut/BU/Briggs/Brown/Harris etc etc, talent gets turnovers. There is next to none on this team so no turn overs.
Fix the QB position 1st, fix the DB's 2nd and you'll start winning regardless of the HC.
btw, this was the problem w/bringing in Fox, what does an old coach want to do w/a rebuild, he wants to in, or so says all the people that say we cannot draft and start a young qb. If that was the case then Fox was the wrong hire.
I was listening to Chris Simms on the radio this morning. Chris did some scouting work and some front office work for the Patriots when he was done playing. He said the thing that makes the Patriots and Belichick so good is that he finds players that do something well...whatever it is, and thats all he asks them to do. He won't ask them to do anything they aren't capable of. So a guy like Shea has something he is good at, and Belichick puts him in a position to use that skill and asks nothing else of him.
By the way, the opponents average drive started on the 29 yard line. Thats only 5 yards worse than the best average drive against of 24 yards. Tell me more about all this awful field position the defense was put in.
AVERAGE.... but what about the AVERAGE after a Turnover. That's when we got scored on.
We only got scored on after turnovers? Really? Well if that were the case we only would have given up 12 points a game. That can't be true because we only gave up less than 14 points twice...hmmmmmmm
As much as I never wanted Fox, and wish he would get fired, no one was going to win here w/this roster. The talent level isn't there. People point to how great Shea has been for NE, bs, Shea has been Shea for NE they just don't expect anymore or less out of him then what he is, a guy that might make a play, maybe 2 a game. His #'s are basically the same there as they were in Chicago, and he's only started 4 games for them.
Look at the turnovers over the last several years, bottom of the league. Coaches cannot teach turn overs, you have to have guys that are talented enough to make them happen. Peanut/BU/Briggs/Brown/Harris etc etc, talent gets turnovers. There is next to none on this team so no turn overs.
Fix the QB position 1st, fix the DB's 2nd and you'll start winning regardless of the HC.
btw, this was the problem w/bringing in Fox, what does an old coach want to do w/a rebuild, he wants to in, or so says all the people that say we cannot draft and start a young qb. If that was the case then Fox was the wrong hire.
I was listening to Chris Simms on the radio this morning. Chris did some scouting work and some front office work for the Patriots when he was done playing. He said the thing that makes the Patriots and Belichick so good is that he finds players that do something well...whatever it is, and thats all he asks them to do. He won't ask them to do anything they aren't capable of. So a guy like Shea has something he is good at, and Belichick puts him in a position to use that skill and asks nothing else of him.
Shea is good at sticking around the line and hitting the rb, that's all he's really done. He cannot cover, he struggles rushing the qb. But let him ghost the RB and he can make a stop.
That isn't making Shea great, or in a position to be great. It makes Shea usable.
I was listening to Chris Simms on the radio this morning. Chris did some scouting work and some front office work for the Patriots when he was done playing. He said the thing that makes the Patriots and Belichick so good is that he finds players that do something well...whatever it is, and thats all he asks them to do. He won't ask them to do anything they aren't capable of. So a guy like Shea has something he is good at, and Belichick puts him in a position to use that skill and asks nothing else of him.
Shea is good at sticking around the line and hitting the rb, that's all he's really done. He cannot cover, he struggles rushing the qb. But let him ghost the RB and he can make a stop.
That isn't making Shea great, or in a position to be great. It makes Shea usable.
Whearas a coach that does not do that can not even make Shea usable. Not sure why the push back on coaches making a difference. It is very apparent that a good coach in fact does get more out of a team. There seems to be a resistance from some to admit that.
Shea is good at sticking around the line and hitting the rb, that's all he's really done. He cannot cover, he struggles rushing the qb. But let him ghost the RB and he can make a stop.
That isn't making Shea great, or in a position to be great. It makes Shea usable.
Whearas a coach that does not do that can not even make Shea usable. Not sure why the push back on coaches making a difference. It is very apparent that a good coach in fact does get more out of a team. There seems to be a resistance from some to admit that.
Not sure why though
There isn't. There is push back to over how much impact compared to the impact of talent. Nobody here is claiming Fox is Belichick.
Shea is good at sticking around the line and hitting the rb, that's all he's really done. He cannot cover, he struggles rushing the qb. But let him ghost the RB and he can make a stop.
That isn't making Shea great, or in a position to be great. It makes Shea usable.
Whearas a coach that does not do that can not even make Shea usable. Not sure why the push back on coaches making a difference. It is very apparent that a good coach in fact does get more out of a team. There seems to be a resistance from some to admit that.
Not sure why though
But Shea was usable here, he is DOING EXACTLY WHAT HE DID HERE; difference is he's only asked to do that in NE. If Bellechick had drafted him in the top 20, it would not be the same, he would have been skewered for drafting a guy and only getting that production out of him.