So then between 2006 and now this team has been so devoid of talent we couldn't possibly compete no matter who coached and all of our HCs who went elsewhere went to Super Bowls with all of that talent we never had here. Is that right?
DEVOID of talent ? No . We all know Lach + Peanut + Briggsy and a few others were pretty good . We just didn't have enough OVERALL talent , and we had some mistake prone people in important positions also . So basically you have to be pretty good and pretty solid everywhere , no coaching staff is good enough to make you overcome that .
Blue if and when this situation changes then maybe you and I will agree but I think anyone who thinks it's primarily a lack of talent that caused a 3-13 season is only kidding themselves. It's far more than that.
DEVOID of talent ? No . We all know Lach + Peanut + Briggsy and a few others were pretty good . We just didn't have enough OVERALL talent , and we had some mistake prone people in important positions also . So basically you have to be pretty good and pretty solid everywhere , no coaching staff is good enough to make you overcome that .
Blue if and when this situation changes then maybe you and I will agree but I think anyone who thinks it's primarily a lack of talent that caused a 3-13 season is only kidding themselves. It's far more than that.
I never said I thought this staff was 'great' - matter of fact I'm not sold on them at all - but I can't really make a determination until I see what they do when they have enough talent to genuinely compete - if they flub up then , then they won't have anyone to blame but themselves - and we'll see that they have deficencies that can't be tolerated . I dgas who is a part of this team : players or coaches . I don't care where they come from , what rd they were drafted , what their name is , or what's on their resume' - I want the people wearing my uniform to win fkn fb games .
Blue if and when this situation changes then maybe you and I will agree but I think anyone who thinks it's primarily a lack of talent that caused a 3-13 season is only kidding themselves. It's far more than that.
I never said I thought this staff was 'great' - matter of fact I'm not sold on them at all - but I can't really make a determination until I see what they do when they have enough talent to genuinely compete - if they flub up then , then they won't have anyone to blame but themselves - and we'll see that they have deficencies that can't be tolerated . I dgas who is a part of this team : players or coaches . I don't care where they come from , what rd they were drafted , what their name is , or what's on their resume' - I want the people wearing my uniform to win fkn fb games .
Here is where I disagree with you Blue. If you have a talent laden team and you don't compete, then you have an obvious problem. Not really a hard issue to put your finger on. Someone actually picked up your finger and laid it on the problem in that case. It is the very subjective case of determining whether or not you are performing to the talent that you have that is the issue for me. I happen to think we have more talent than a three win season so I see a problem with the coaches. Some others believe that we are so low on talent that 3 wins is all we have in us and that no coach would make a difference. Therefore they do not see a problem with the coaches.
In essence, you just have people believing different things which then leads you to whether you see a problem or not. Comes down to a subjective determination of where we should be given the talent that one believes we have and we have people believing different things. The same thing was the case with Lovie and it was also with Tucker if you remember. It was always.... we should be doing better with the guys we have. No... we can't because our guys are no better than this.... and so back and forth.
Granted the bar is lower at 3 wins, but still the determination is..... with the lower bar and all, are we hitting what we should be or not.
Yeah...I guess we just have a bunch of guys who just forgot how to coach football. Must be my eyes, I'm gonna have to go back and look at all the all pro's who are on this roster....all the first round picks who played for us this season...clearly you're all right....coaching is the issue here.
I believe quite a few think so both here and elsewhere. Just because you don't doesn't make it so does it? You have an opinion and some of us have a different one. The only difference is we have a 6-10 season and a more recent 3-13 season to back us up.
Whatta you got?
I've got the same record to back me up and the players performances to boot. I've got Matt Barkley who was out of the league throwing 10 interceptions in the last 3 games. I've got two guys starting at corner who were cut by multiple teams, THIS YEAR. I've got undrafted free agents starting at receiver, and 4th round rookies starting at linebacker. I've got the second highest player combinations in the league. So yeah, I've got an opinion...and it's a pretty valid and well backed up one, not just here, but by people around the league.
I believe quite a few think so both here and elsewhere. Just because you don't doesn't make it so does it? You have an opinion and some of us have a different one. The only difference is we have a 6-10 season and a more recent 3-13 season to back us up.
Whatta you got?
I've got the same record to back me up and the players performances to boot. I've got Matt Barkley who was out of the league throwing 10 interceptions in the last 3 games. I've got two guys starting at corner who were cut by multiple teams, THIS YEAR. I've got undrafted free agents starting at receiver, and 4th round rookies starting at linebacker. I've got the second highest player combinations in the league. So yeah, I've got an opinion...and it's a pretty valid and well backed up one, not just here, but by people around the league.
and the coaches have no responsibility for trying to make them better? Or for getting them to begin with? When Barth misses a long FG, isn't some of that for Fox having chosen a person that does not have the range to make that goal? Everyone has limitations. Some can not be extended very much. But it is the coaches job to try to either minimize those limitations or game plan so that those players can still be effective. In other words put those players in positions where they can still be effective. That can ALWAYS be done to some extent. Whether or not they can still win is going to be the issue. It still all comes back to whether or not you think the talent is more than a 3 win team and I think it is. It may be not be great or even good, but it is better than that, but that is jmo.
True. If you look at our roster in the unspecific grand scheme of things, I think we are more than a 3 win team (I had us projected as an 8-8 or better team this year) but there are a lot of assumptions that go into that statement.
I think a more accurate way to phrase it is: is the talent, the chemistry, the consistency THIS WEEK better than the team we are playing THIS WEEK AND during the course of the game is that dramatically changed (IE The starting quarterback is injured, we lose two offensive linemen earlier on, etc).
I've got the same record to back me up and the players performances to boot. I've got Matt Barkley who was out of the league throwing 10 interceptions in the last 3 games. I've got two guys starting at corner who were cut by multiple teams, THIS YEAR. I've got undrafted free agents starting at receiver, and 4th round rookies starting at linebacker. I've got the second highest player combinations in the league. So yeah, I've got an opinion...and it's a pretty valid and well backed up one, not just here, but by people around the league.
and the coaches have no responsibility for trying to make them better? Or for getting them to begin with? When Barth misses a long FG, isn't some of that for Fox having chosen a person that does not have the range to make that goal? Everyone has limitations. Some can not be extended very much. But it is the coaches job to try to either minimize those limitations or game plan so that those players can still be effective. In other words put those players in positions where they can still be effective. That can ALWAYS be done to some extent. Whether or not they can still win is going to be the issue. It still all comes back to whether or not you think the talent is more than a 3 win team and I think it is. It may be not be great or even good, but it is better than that, but that is jmo.
You don't think the fact that we were in games wasn't the coaches making them better? You don't think the fact that had our receivers just CAUGHT a ball we would have won games? There were times these players were put into positions to make plays and they just flat didn't make them. Then throw in our QB and his penchant for turning the ball over and you have what you have. I'm sorry...you may think this was more than a 3 win team, but I don't know a coach in the league who is winning more than 3 games with Matt Barkley at QB and a group of receivers who drop balls at big times, and guys who have been cut by multiple teams in one year starting at corner...I just don't.
Yes, at the beginning of the season, with a fully healthy roster, this team is better than 3 wins. This roster by mid season...no shot.
and the coaches have no responsibility for trying to make them better? Or for getting them to begin with? When Barth misses a long FG, isn't some of that for Fox having chosen a person that does not have the range to make that goal? Everyone has limitations. Some can not be extended very much. But it is the coaches job to try to either minimize those limitations or game plan so that those players can still be effective. In other words put those players in positions where they can still be effective. That can ALWAYS be done to some extent. Whether or not they can still win is going to be the issue. It still all comes back to whether or not you think the talent is more than a 3 win team and I think it is. It may be not be great or even good, but it is better than that, but that is jmo.
You don't think the fact that we were in games wasn't the coaches making them better? You don't think the fact that had our receivers just CAUGHT a ball we would have won games? There were times these players were put into positions to make plays and they just flat didn't make them. Then throw in our QB and his penchant for turning the ball over and you have what you have. I'm sorry...you may think this was more than a 3 win team, but I don't know a coach in the league who is winning more than 3 games with Matt Barkley at QB and a group of receivers who drop balls at big times, and guys who have been cut by multiple teams in one year starting at corner...I just don't.
Yes, at the beginning of the season, with a fully healthy roster, this team is better than 3 wins. This roster by mid season...no shot.
and the coaches have no responsibility for trying to make them better? Or for getting them to begin with? When Barth misses a long FG, isn't some of that for Fox having chosen a person that does not have the range to make that goal? Everyone has limitations. Some can not be extended very much. But it is the coaches job to try to either minimize those limitations or game plan so that those players can still be effective. In other words put those players in positions where they can still be effective. That can ALWAYS be done to some extent. Whether or not they can still win is going to be the issue. It still all comes back to whether or not you think the talent is more than a 3 win team and I think it is. It may be not be great or even good, but it is better than that, but that is jmo.
You don't think the fact that we were in games wasn't the coaches making them better? You don't think the fact that had our receivers just CAUGHT a ball we would have won games? There were times these players were put into positions to make plays and they just flat didn't make them. Then throw in our QB and his penchant for turning the ball over and you have what you have. I'm sorry...you may think this was more than a 3 win team, but I don't know a coach in the league who is winning more than 3 games with Matt Barkley at QB and a group of receivers who drop balls at big times, and guys who have been cut by multiple teams in one year starting at corner...I just don't.
Yes, at the beginning of the season, with a fully healthy roster, this team is better than 3 wins. This roster by mid season...no shot.
that's a valid question. I dunno. You can look at it one way. The guys sucked so bad that they had no chance of winning any games at all until the coaches coached them up to three games or we had a team with talent better than 3 wins and the coaches did not do a good job of getting them to play to their potential.
If I knew for sure, I would tell you. Obviously I don't know. I just know what I believe.
You don't think the fact that we were in games wasn't the coaches making them better? You don't think the fact that had our receivers just CAUGHT a ball we would have won games? There were times these players were put into positions to make plays and they just flat didn't make them. Then throw in our QB and his penchant for turning the ball over and you have what you have. I'm sorry...you may think this was more than a 3 win team, but I don't know a coach in the league who is winning more than 3 games with Matt Barkley at QB and a group of receivers who drop balls at big times, and guys who have been cut by multiple teams in one year starting at corner...I just don't.
Yes, at the beginning of the season, with a fully healthy roster, this team is better than 3 wins. This roster by mid season...no shot.
Post of the off-season so far ^^^^^
Thanks JABF....every now and again I run into a good one. LOL