Let's Talk Garopplolo, Schefter "Claims" Price Has Been Set.

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Let's Talk Garopplolo, Schefter "Claims" Price Has Been Set. Dec 30, 2016 4:44:30 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 4:44:30 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 5:34:47 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

Don't care what the point value is. FACTs, not emotion there big man.

FACT Browns are in desperate need for a QB and have 2 1sts in the top 10. THEY will set the floor of a #1.

And if they do they do but that isn't fact Ric it's your interpretation of the market and that's all it is. The FACT is we don't know for sure do we?

Look, the entire basis of my posts about this came from another somewhat dubious Adam Schefter blog or whatever saying the price tag begins with what Minny paid for Bradford. Knowing Schefter I'd call that casual unconfirmed info anyway. Something on the order of "what would it take, maybe a Bradford type deal"? And NE responds "At least".

That's about as much substance as anything Schefter starts a report on has.

So I calculated the value of that trade as 812 draft points and made it very clear that it was the substance of beginning a discussion about a trade based on that value or something close to it. It's pretty clear that few took the time to read or understand the parameters I've set since the responses wouldn't be what they are if everyone did. No matter how typical that is in forums thank you all very little anyway. Nice to know it was a huge waste of time trying to deal in true trade value not picks.

I'm taking an approach that most NFL GMs will make market type offers at least as a starting point and push stuff around until they get a deal whereas you are claiming Cleveland will set a whole new market 500 points above the current market value for the most recent trade of a vet QB with more experience than Garoppolo has. IMHO that's a huge reach on your part.

Now, since it's Cleveland who the **** knows what they might do but MY point was never to acquire Jimmy G at any cost only to acquire him at what has been the previously established market value not 60% more than market value. I'm an investment advisor remember.....buy low, sell high?

NE would love to do that and get a top ten pick for him and if they can more power to them because I would not pay that price and never advocated we should. My price is more in the 820-870 range possibly using a current and a future pick or conditional picks to do it. That's it....finite. This is about possibly spending our 2nd round pick and others of some nature for a starter in lieu of drafting a rookie who won't start. If you want Cutler gone this is one avenue to do it.

Anyone who doesn't want to discuss it based on those parameters is welcome start their own thread and stop trying to hijack mine Ric because the price I've set is all I'm debating with not what Cleveland MIGHT pay if they use that #10 pick.

Does that make the premise of THIS thread more clear?

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Last Edit: Dec 30, 2016 4:53:39 GMT -6 by Deleted

riczaj01 Administrator Posts: 11,460 Likes: 10,242	Let's Talk Garopplolo, Schefter "Claims" Price Has Been Set. Dec 30, 2016 5:04:23 GMT -6 Post by riczaj01 on Dec 30, 2016 5:04:23 GMT -6 You know the Jimmy Johnson chart isn't used anymore right? They've updated it b/c it's not accurate anymore. and the chart only matters for pick/s for pick/s trades, not player for picks trades. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

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Let's Talk Garopplolo, Schefter "Claims" Price Has Been Set. Dec 30, 2016 5:19:29 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 5:19:29 GMT -6

Dec 29, 2016 7:28:24 GMT -6 jamaisvu said:

One little thought I would like to add to the Jimmy G discussion.

With only one year left on his rookie deal, Jimmy's agent should be insisting that a trade should come a new contract. Hell, I would think no GM in the leauge would give up a first round pick for a one year test drive anyhow. If you believe in Jimmy enough to give up the picks, you have to believe in him enough to lock him up with a long term contract.

That is where I get cold feet about making a move for Jimmy G. It is not just the picks, but then we are locked into another quarterback and if he fails...he is going to be the Jay Cutler for the next coaching staff.

At least a rookie will not cost us at least ten million a year.

Plus making that trade already throws out Pace's plan of building through the draft out of fear and panic. If those are the only two reasons to make this trade, might as well fire them now and save Bear Nation a lot of grief.

Agreed but he will not come in the door with that new contract in place so that matter and his $$$ value is yet to be determined right? So let me play agent here and go through this and you can fire back as you like.

Why as his agent should I insist on a price based on almost no NFL starts when if my client proves himself to be a more than adequate NFL starter in the fall my bargaining power is much greater. We didn't extend Cutler before he arrived either. That extension came later.

So while I agree that any trade would be done with the contemplation of signing him long term it's simply the next step not part of the initial one other than to know what the parameters are. That much isn't tough to know anymore than it was with Cutler when we traded for him.

And once again if it's ridiculous well then you don't do the trade but all this negative speculation about the cost of the trade and the price of a contract is all stuff any good GM will have data on to work from. I sure as hell would. This about putting an approach on the table and nothing more.

"At least a rookie will not cost us at least ten million a year."

True but in all likelihood you won't have a competent starter in 2017 and maybe not in 2018 either and by then we may have invested that much in a rookie depending on where we draft him and still not have an NFL caliber starter. Garopplo takes some of the risk out of that. IMHO quite a bit actually.

That last paragraph I'm gonna discard because no current NFL team is ever built entirely through the draft and neither are we. Pace has signed quite a few UFAs so it's not really applicable especially when certain positions are tougher to draft and you over pay there too when you reach for a player based on raw need who isn't worth the pick you used to get him. As far as QBs go I'm all about mitigating risk because so many fail including most of our previous picks.

Now I'll close by saying that IMHO if we were drafting in the 20s and there were no 2017 QB prospects likely to fall to us or be worth the pick and Garoppolo's name came up as being on the market 80% of you would be saying we'd be better off trading that pick (worth 800 points or less) for Garoppolo rather than the 3rd or 4th best whatever. I fact I'm 99% sure of it and I wouldn't be the one starting a thread about it either. LOL

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Let's Talk Garopplolo, Schefter "Claims" Price Has Been Set. Dec 30, 2016 5:37:29 GMT -6

Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 5:37:29 GMT -6

Dec 30, 2016 5:04:23 GMT -6 riczaj01 said:

You know the Jimmy Johnson chart isn't used anymore right? They've updated it b/c it's not accurate anymore.

and the chart only matters for pick/s for pick/s trades, not player for picks trades.

I'm not using JJ's chart Ric and the one I do use is updated every year. And it doesn't just apply to pick for picks when it establishes the value of those picks in terms of their draft capital. How else would you do it? They aren't trading dollars or stocks and bonds or even players for players in this case.

If a player is traded for picks then those picks become the current market value for a similar trade until the next one which may increase or decrease the current market value. Player contracts work in a similar manner. The draft is a market place like the stock market and I do agree that it is an auction market as well where prices are set between buyers and sellers but it is also a fairly orderly marketplace because the buyers and sellers are all knowledgeable and sophisticated professionals.

I'm not disputing the increase or decrease in market value only the amount but even that is beyond the scope of my thread. It's based on the price as stated by Schefter or something in that range and whether or not a trade for JG would bring more value, less risk, and get us a starter to replace Cutler that a rookie draftee would not since we'd be using the same draft capital for him that we would be for a draftee.

Those are the only parameters I established Ric and the method I used to establish trade value in points is quite valid and in use as the Bradford trade would confirm. Personally I think Minny woefully overpaid but I intentionally chose not to reduce it because I feel Garoppolo is a far better QB than Bradford.

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Last Edit: Dec 30, 2016 5:40:23 GMT -6 by Deleted

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Let's Talk Garopplolo, Schefter "Claims" Price Has Been Set.

Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 4:44:30 GMT -6

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