New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire?

brasilbear
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:01:07 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:01:07 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 10:36:40 GMT -6 The Marshall Plan said:

Nov 4, 2024 10:24:20 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

What experience does Dabe Toub have? Serious question. His name comes up every time the talk about Bears HCs. He has no experience on the OFF side, almost no experience on the DEF side. He's never called plays at any level.

Here is his coaching resume:

UTEP (1986) Graduate assistant
UTEP (1987–1988) Strength and conditioning coach
Missouri (1989–1997) Strength and conditioning coach
Missouri (1998–2000) Defensive line coach
Philadelphia Eagles (2001–2003) Special teams & quality control coach
Chicago Bears (2004–2012) Special teams coordinator
Kansas City Chiefs (2013–2017) Special teams coordinator
Kansas City Chiefs (2018–present) Assistant head coach & special teams coordinator

Whats the attraction to an organization here? I'm not trolling, what does he bring other than 3 SB rings as a special teams coord? Again, as a special teams coordinator, not a play caller, not a play designer, not a game planner....

Toub has been coaching for an eternity and is regarded as either the best or one of the best special teams coaches in the game. He has spent a considerable amount of time in KC with Andy Reid as well.

A Head Coach should spend his time head coaching. Not on calling offensive or defensive schemes. He needs to lead men.

There are OCs and DCs for a reason. Let them call the plays.

I understand all that. He was the greatest ST-coord Chicago ever had. But, that still doesn't say anything to me about why he should he hired.

You are however the first guy who ever defended including Toub and I appreciate that. Usually I get: "Duh!! Greatest ST-coord in Chicago!! Derp!! Go Bears!!"

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bearsinhouston
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:04:54 GMT -6 shark86 and The Marshall Plan like this

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:04:54 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 3:17:34 GMT -6 The Marshall Plan said:

I would go after these candidates:

1) Brian Flores - Would require a Whiz Kid at OC, but dang that defense would be amazing with the talent we have.
2) Dave Toub - The most complete candidate with the most experience and he's a winner. He might be my #1.
3) Ben Johnson - Would require a Whiz Kid at DC and would ensure Caleb gets developed.

I don't have an opinion about Belichick one way or another. I'm not against it and would be fine if we hired him.

You know.... I hadn't thought about Toub. I actually wanted him at one point (man, that just does not sound right). That might be a good idea there.

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bearsinhouston
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:07:01 GMT -6 shark86 likes this

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:07:01 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 10:24:20 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

What experience does Dabe Toub have? Serious question. His name comes up every time the talk about Bears HCs. He has no experience on the OFF side, almost no experience on the DEF side. He's never called plays at any level.

Here is his coaching resume:

UTEP (1986) Graduate assistant
UTEP (1987–1988) Strength and conditioning coach
Missouri (1989–1997) Strength and conditioning coach
Missouri (1998–2000) Defensive line coach
Philadelphia Eagles (2001–2003) Special teams & quality control coach
Chicago Bears (2004–2012) Special teams coordinator
Kansas City Chiefs (2013–2017) Special teams coordinator
Kansas City Chiefs (2018–present) Assistant head coach & special teams coordinator

Whats the attraction to an organization here? I'm not trolling, what does he bring other than 3 SB rings as a special teams coord? Again, as a special teams coordinator, not a play caller, not a play designer, not a game planner....

As a general statement, I like ST background because they have a fuller appreciation of the game (IMO). I do get that he has not called plays. But as a HC, he doesn't need to either.

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brasilbear
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:11:59 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:11:59 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 11:07:01 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 4, 2024 10:24:20 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

What experience does Dabe Toub have? Serious question. His name comes up every time the talk about Bears HCs. He has no experience on the OFF side, almost no experience on the DEF side. He's never called plays at any level.

Here is his coaching resume:

UTEP (1986) Graduate assistant
UTEP (1987–1988) Strength and conditioning coach
Missouri (1989–1997) Strength and conditioning coach
Missouri (1998–2000) Defensive line coach
Philadelphia Eagles (2001–2003) Special teams & quality control coach
Chicago Bears (2004–2012) Special teams coordinator
Kansas City Chiefs (2013–2017) Special teams coordinator
Kansas City Chiefs (2018–present) Assistant head coach & special teams coordinator

Whats the attraction to an organization here? I'm not trolling, what does he bring other than 3 SB rings as a special teams coord? Again, as a special teams coordinator, not a play caller, not a play designer, not a game planner....

As a general statement, I like ST background because they have a fuller appreciation of the game (IMO). I do get that he has not called plays. But as a HC, he doesn't need to either.

I get that HC don't have to call plays (even though in todays NFL most do). But he's never had experience creating an OFF or DEF game plan or as far as we know an OFF or DEF philosophy. All HCs (with the exception of John Harbaugh who ironically was a ST-coord--ha ha ha) have at some point been either an OC or DC, called plays or at least signed plays.

I'm not comfortable turning Williams over to a HC that has never been in a position where he (or she) has called plays for either side of the ball. Others disagree.

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bearsinhouston
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:16:26 GMT -6 brasilbear likes this

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:16:26 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 11:11:59 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Nov 4, 2024 11:07:01 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

As a general statement, I like ST background because they have a fuller appreciation of the game (IMO). I do get that he has not called plays. But as a HC, he doesn't need to either.

I get that HC don't have to call plays (even though in todays NFL most do). But he's never had experience creating an OFF or DEF game plan or as far as we know an OFF or DEF philosophy. All HCs (with the exception of John Harbaugh who ironically was a ST-coord--ha ha ha) have at some point been either an OC or DC, called plays or at least signed plays.

I'm not comfortable turning Williams over to a HC that has never been in a position where he (or she) has called plays for either side of the ball. Others disagree.

I'm going to see if I can find the article that sticks in my head. It made the case for an ST coach for HC. I remember it talked about ST needing to really understand all phases of the game, and mentioned a few successful ST coaches becoming good HCs and they justified it pretty well. I can't remember all the points but it did make me want Toub as a HC. I mean at this point, Toubs dog looks good to me as a replacement for Flus. He can probably do a better press conference explaining his moves too

EDIT: This was not the article but it does speak to the same point

www.the33rdteam.com/darren-rizzi-special-teams-coordinators/

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Last Edit: Nov 4, 2024 11:18:04 GMT -6 by bearsinhouston

brasilbear
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:25:49 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:25:49 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 11:16:26 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 4, 2024 11:11:59 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

I get that HC don't have to call plays (even though in todays NFL most do). But he's never had experience creating an OFF or DEF game plan or as far as we know an OFF or DEF philosophy. All HCs (with the exception of John Harbaugh who ironically was a ST-coord--ha ha ha) have at some point been either an OC or DC, called plays or at least signed plays.

I'm not comfortable turning Williams over to a HC that has never been in a position where he (or she) has called plays for either side of the ball. Others disagree.

I'm going to see if I can find the article that sticks in my head. It made the case for an ST coach for HC. I remember it talked about ST needing to really understand all phases of the game, and mentioned a few successful ST coaches becoming good HCs and they justified it pretty well. I can't remember all the points but it did make me want Toub as a HC. I mean at this point, Toubs dog looks good to me as a replacement for Flus. He can probably do a better press conference explaining his moves too

EDIT: This was not the article but it does speak to the same point

www.the33rdteam.com/darren-rizzi-special-teams-coordinators/

Thats a good article and I can accept his points in favor of Toub.

But, and its just me, I value game planning experience on either the OFF side or DEF side as critical. Toub doesn't have it.

Thanks for the article.

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bearsinhouston
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:29:55 GMT -6

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:29:55 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 11:25:49 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Nov 4, 2024 11:16:26 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

I'm going to see if I can find the article that sticks in my head. It made the case for an ST coach for HC. I remember it talked about ST needing to really understand all phases of the game, and mentioned a few successful ST coaches becoming good HCs and they justified it pretty well. I can't remember all the points but it did make me want Toub as a HC. I mean at this point, Toubs dog looks good to me as a replacement for Flus. He can probably do a better press conference explaining his moves too

EDIT: This was not the article but it does speak to the same point

www.the33rdteam.com/darren-rizzi-special-teams-coordinators/

Thats a good article and I can accept his points in favor of Toub.

But, and its just me, I value game planning experience on either the OFF side or DEF side as critical. Toub doesn't have it.

Thanks for the article.

Can't argue against that point at all. In the end, it's a crapshoot. Speaking of crap, whoodathunkit that Waldron would be this bad. And he had everything I was looking for. You just can't tell. I'd be ok with Toub. But he is not the only one. I would not be against it though

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brasilbear
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 11:43:05 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:43:05 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 11:29:55 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 4, 2024 11:25:49 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Thats a good article and I can accept his points in favor of Toub.

But, and its just me, I value game planning experience on either the OFF side or DEF side as critical. Toub doesn't have it.

Thanks for the article.

Can't argue against that point at all. In the end, it's a crapshoot. Speaking of crap, whoodathunkit that Waldron would be this bad. And he had everything I was looking for. You just can't tell. I'd be ok with Toub. But he is not the only one. I would not be against it though

Its funny, I expect most OC can at least run a basic professional NFL-level OFF. Thats what I expected from Getsy and Waldron. Just basic NFL level concepts. But, man was I wrong.

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The Marshall Plan
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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 12:06:47 GMT -6 via mobile shark86 and bearsinhouston like this

Post by The Marshall Plan on Nov 4, 2024 12:06:47 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 11:04:54 GMT -6 bearsinhouston said:

Nov 4, 2024 3:17:34 GMT -6 The Marshall Plan said:

I would go after these candidates:

1) Brian Flores - Would require a Whiz Kid at OC, but dang that defense would be amazing with the talent we have.
2) Dave Toub - The most complete candidate with the most experience and he's a winner. He might be my #1.
3) Ben Johnson - Would require a Whiz Kid at DC and would ensure Caleb gets developed.

I don't have an opinion about Belichick one way or another. I'm not against it and would be fine if we hired him.

You know.... I hadn't thought about Toub. I actually wanted him at one point (man, that just does not sound right). That might be a good idea there.

Hiring a coordinator for their first HC job is like playing Whack-A-Mole. The OC will need a strong DC. The DC HC will need the opposite. Then either one needs to learn how to be a leader.

Toub won’t have that problem. He will hire an OC and a DC to handle their areas. His time will be spent on leadership and overall strategy. Couple that with his decades of coaching experience and long tenure with Andy Reid and I really like the idea.

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www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/the_long_legacy_of_lost_leads_by_matt_eberflus_teams/s1_16634_41142115

The Marshall Plan
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Posts: 261
Likes: 220

New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire? Nov 4, 2024 12:08:33 GMT -6 via mobile

Post by The Marshall Plan on Nov 4, 2024 12:08:33 GMT -6

Nov 4, 2024 11:01:07 GMT -6 brasilbear said:

Nov 4, 2024 10:36:40 GMT -6 The Marshall Plan said:

Toub has been coaching for an eternity and is regarded as either the best or one of the best special teams coaches in the game. He has spent a considerable amount of time in KC with Andy Reid as well.

A Head Coach should spend his time head coaching. Not on calling offensive or defensive schemes. He needs to lead men.

There are OCs and DCs for a reason. Let them call the plays.

I understand all that. He was the greatest ST-coord Chicago ever had. But, that still doesn't say anything to me about why he should he hired.

You are however the first guy who ever defended including Toub and I appreciate that. Usually I get: "Duh!! Greatest ST-coord in Chicago!! Derp!! Go Bears!!"

If you really understood it then you wouldn’t have needed to ask in the first place.

Quote

Matt Eberflus' History Of Losing

www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/the_long_legacy_of_lost_leads_by_matt_eberflus_teams/s1_16634_41142115

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New head coach for 2025 - who should they hire?

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:01:07 GMT -6

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:04:54 GMT -6

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:07:01 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:11:59 GMT -6

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:16:26 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:25:49 GMT -6

Post by bearsinhouston on Nov 4, 2024 11:29:55 GMT -6

Post by brasilbear on Nov 4, 2024 11:43:05 GMT -6

Post by The Marshall Plan on Nov 4, 2024 12:06:47 GMT -6

Post by The Marshall Plan on Nov 4, 2024 12:08:33 GMT -6