+1 That's a good point too, David. I tend to be overly emotional as a fan. I'm up and then down too much. I was really ticked off with Brax because he did struggle in some other games early this season too. But he wasn't "bad" so much as I was disappointed he still was having problems with bull rushes at times... I really thought he'd be able to improve in the off season. I'm convinced that particular struggle is not just hitting the weight room. I think it's a combination of strength and also technique. Both. I'm still believing he will get that fixed.
I think its mostly technique. People grossly overrate strength.
Then I'll be he gets it sorted out. He seems like he has a lot of the LT traits and sure sounds like a sharp guy trying to learn. Likable guy to listen to in the interviews too.
+1 That's a good point too, David. I tend to be overly emotional as a fan. I'm up and then down too much. I was really ticked off with Brax because he did struggle in some other games early this season too. But he wasn't "bad" so much as I was disappointed he still was having problems with bull rushes at times... I really thought he'd be able to improve in the off season. I'm convinced that particular struggle is not just hitting the weight room. I think it's a combination of strength and also technique. Both. I'm still believing he will get that fixed.
I think it’s mostly technique. People grossly overrate strength.
Tom Thayer is one of them. He says he’s skeptical of any lineman who doesn’t know where to find the 50-lb. dumbells.
Since the Rams game, I have been watching Verse. I know some were high on him during the draft. He has that rare combination of quickness and strength. He can speed rush then bull rush on next snap. He is very strong for a guy listed at 260. He has about 80 pff grade, which is way better than any Bear DL. He’s going to be hard for any LT to handle.
+1 That's a good point too, David. I tend to be overly emotional as a fan. I'm up and then down too much. I was really ticked off with Brax because he did struggle in some other games early this season too. But he wasn't "bad" so much as I was disappointed he still was having problems with bull rushes at times... I really thought he'd be able to improve in the off season. I'm convinced that particular struggle is not just hitting the weight room. I think it's a combination of strength and also technique. Both. I'm still believing he will get that fixed.
Don't be too hard on yourself about getting emotionally involved in the games. Fan is short for fanatic right?
Your original opinion on Jones is well founded. He gets bull rushed back into the pocket. Go back to those earlier games, watch the QB analysis videos (I like All Things QB on YouTube.) but pay attention to Jones.
Then whatever it is we think of him, I have not seen a good argument to give him a big second contract.
+1 That's a good point too, David. I tend to be overly emotional as a fan. I'm up and then down too much. I was really ticked off with Brax because he did struggle in some other games early this season too. But he wasn't "bad" so much as I was disappointed he still was having problems with bull rushes at times... I really thought he'd be able to improve in the off season. I'm convinced that particular struggle is not just hitting the weight room. I think it's a combination of strength and also technique. Both. I'm still believing he will get that fixed.
Don't be too hard on yourself about getting emotionally involved in the games. Fan is short for fanatic right?
Your original opinion on Jones is well founded. He gets bull rushed back into the pocket. Go back to those earlier games, watch the QB analysis videos (I like All Things QB on YouTube.) but pay attention to Jones.
Then whatever it is we think of him, I have not seen a good argument to give him a big second contract.
I need to see how he finishes the season. We all agree that he still has some work to do against bull rush, but he’s good against speed rushers and a good run blocker. As butkus says, if you’re getting rid of him, you need to have confidence that the guy you’re bringing in will play better than Brax in 2025. He’s still on his rookie contract in 2025, so there’s still time for further development. You’re not likely to land a better LT drafting 20-something in first round. But you can for center or guard — JABF has made that point.
+1 That's a good point too, David. I tend to be overly emotional as a fan. I'm up and then down too much. I was really ticked off with Brax because he did struggle in some other games early this season too. But he wasn't "bad" so much as I was disappointed he still was having problems with bull rushes at times... I really thought he'd be able to improve in the off season. I'm convinced that particular struggle is not just hitting the weight room. I think it's a combination of strength and also technique. Both. I'm still believing he will get that fixed.
Don't be too hard on yourself about getting emotionally involved in the games. Fan is short for fanatic right?
Your original opinion on Jones is well founded. He gets bull rushed back into the pocket. Go back to those earlier games, watch the QB analysis videos (I like All Things QB on YouTube.) but pay attention to Jones.
Then whatever it is we think of him, I have not seen a good argument to give him a big second contract.
+1 Hopefully we see him continue to improve these 11 games that are left. Even the best LT's have a percentage of bad plays. Brax has only allowed 1 sack for the season so far. He has improved the penalty problem he had, and is doing much better there. And I've watched a lot of the tackles this season from a lot of teams - they all are trying to have a hair-trigger when facing these crazy quick D edge rushers. I get it, this is a different world than what NFL tackles faced years ago.
I pulled up All Pro Trent Williams stats for this season so far for comparison with Brax. They've had about the same number of snaps so far. Both have allowed 1 sack so far this season. Brax has 1 more penalty than Williams (5 versus 4). Brax has allowed 1 less hit on the QB. Williams has allowed 12 pressures to Jones' 17.
We get frustrated seeing a play where the defender gets the best of our LT (understandably so). But right now in the NFL the defenders are off-the-charts quick and powerful - no LT is going to win much better than what we are seeing with Braxton Jones. The top T in the draft was Joe Alt. Brax's pass pro grade is higher than his. The next T drafted at 11th overall pick of the draft, Olumuyiwa Fashanu has a pass pro grade over 30 points lower than Brax. The top T drafted in Brax's draft class, Ikem Ekwonu, has more penalties than Brax and roughly the same pass pro grade and allowed one more hit on the QB than Brax.
I'm thinking I'll try really hard to wait until the end of this 3rd season before I make up my mind on the guy. I know we are critical of PFF, but I still check out their grades on players (and take them with a grain of salt). As of today, PFF has both Brax and Wright graded in the upper-half of NFL tackles. They grade LT's and RT's together... so 64 starting T's. Brax is at #24 and Wright at #26. That seems about right to me as far as the eye test too. Both are young tackles still learning their craft. Neither is a stud, but neither blows chunks either. That both would be graded in the upper-half of the NFL seems reasonable at this point.
To be 100% honest, I'm a LOT more concerned about the interior three offensive line positions than I am of either of our tackles. And it isn't even close. Would I pay Braxton Jones as our LT for the next 4 years? I don't know. But by the end of the season we'll know. I'm going to personally try to not over-react with him either way, good or bad. LOL, I came unglued when he struggled in that one game. I can't imagine how it will be when he allows his 2nd sack this season... we'll be jumping off the ledges
Don't be too hard on yourself about getting emotionally involved in the games. Fan is short for fanatic right?
Your original opinion on Jones is well founded. He gets bull rushed back into the pocket. Go back to those earlier games, watch the QB analysis videos (I like All Things QB on YouTube.) but pay attention to Jones.
Then whatever it is we think of him, I have not seen a good argument to give him a big second contract.
+1 Hopefully we see him continue to improve these 11 games that are left. Even the best LT's have a percentage of bad plays. Brax has only allowed 1 sack for the season so far. He has improved the penalty prone problem he had, and is doing much better there. I pulled up All Pro Trent Williams stats for this season so far for comparison with Brax. They've had about the same number of snaps so far. Both have allowed 1 sack so far this season. Brax has 1 more penalty than Williams (5 versus 4). Brax has allowed 1 less hit on the QB. Williams has allowed 12 pressures to Jones' 17.
We get frustrated seeing a play where the defender gets the best of our LT (understandably so). But right now in the NFL the defenders are off-the-charts quick and powerful - no LT is going to win much better than what we are seeing with Braxton Jones. The top T in the draft was Joe Alt. Brax's pass pro grade is higher than his. The next T drafted at 11th overall pick of the draft, Olumuyiwa Fashanu has a pass pro grade over 30 points lower than Brax. The top T drafted in Brax's draft class, Ikem Ekwonu, has more penalties than Brax and roughly the same pass pro grade and allowed one more hit on the QB than Brax.
I'm thinking I'll try really hard to wait until the end of this 3rd season before I make up my mind on the guy. I know we are critical of PFF, but I still check out their grades on players (and take them with a grain of salt). As of today, PFF has both Brax and Wright graded in the upper-half of NFL tackles. They grade LT's and RT's together... so 64 starting T's. Brax is at #24 and Wright at #26. That seems about right to me as far as the eye test too. Both are young tackles still learning their craft. Neither is a stud, but neither blows chunks either. That both would be graded in the upper-half of the NFL seems reasonable at this point.
To be 100% honest, I'm a LOT more concerned about the interior three offensive line positions than I am of either of our tackles. And it isn't even close. Would I pay Braxton Jones as our LT for the next 4 years? I don't know. But by the end of the season we'll know. I'm going to personally try to not over-react with him either way, good or bad. LOL, I came unglued when he struggled in that one game. I can't imagine how it will be when he allows his 2nd sack this season... we'll be jumping off the ledges
Stats are meaningful, but only meaningful in context. Who has Brax faced? Who has Williams faced? Over time the stats even that out since players go against a larger and larger group over time. But even though it has been said many times, it's still worth repeating. For the most part, we have played easy teams. The real tests are still to come. It is obvious there has been improvement. In some cases, significant improvement. It remains to be seen as to how we stack up to good teams. We will find that out the second half of the schedule
+1 Hopefully we see him continue to improve these 11 games that are left. Even the best LT's have a percentage of bad plays. Brax has only allowed 1 sack for the season so far. He has improved the penalty prone problem he had, and is doing much better there. I pulled up All Pro Trent Williams stats for this season so far for comparison with Brax. They've had about the same number of snaps so far. Both have allowed 1 sack so far this season. Brax has 1 more penalty than Williams (5 versus 4). Brax has allowed 1 less hit on the QB. Williams has allowed 12 pressures to Jones' 17.
We get frustrated seeing a play where the defender gets the best of our LT (understandably so). But right now in the NFL the defenders are off-the-charts quick and powerful - no LT is going to win much better than what we are seeing with Braxton Jones. The top T in the draft was Joe Alt. Brax's pass pro grade is higher than his. The next T drafted at 11th overall pick of the draft, Olumuyiwa Fashanu has a pass pro grade over 30 points lower than Brax. The top T drafted in Brax's draft class, Ikem Ekwonu, has more penalties than Brax and roughly the same pass pro grade and allowed one more hit on the QB than Brax.
I'm thinking I'll try really hard to wait until the end of this 3rd season before I make up my mind on the guy. I know we are critical of PFF, but I still check out their grades on players (and take them with a grain of salt). As of today, PFF has both Brax and Wright graded in the upper-half of NFL tackles. They grade LT's and RT's together... so 64 starting T's. Brax is at #24 and Wright at #26. That seems about right to me as far as the eye test too. Both are young tackles still learning their craft. Neither is a stud, but neither blows chunks either. That both would be graded in the upper-half of the NFL seems reasonable at this point.
To be 100% honest, I'm a LOT more concerned about the interior three offensive line positions than I am of either of our tackles. And it isn't even close. Would I pay Braxton Jones as our LT for the next 4 years? I don't know. But by the end of the season we'll know. I'm going to personally try to not over-react with him either way, good or bad. LOL, I came unglued when he struggled in that one game. I can't imagine how it will be when he allows his 2nd sack this season... we'll be jumping off the ledges
Stats are meaningful, but only meaningful in context. Who has Brax faced? Who has Williams faced? Over time the stats even that out since players go against a larger and larger group over time. But even though it has been said many times, it's still worth repeating. For the most part, we have played easy teams. The real tests are still to come. It is obvious there has been improvement. In some cases, significant improvement. It remains to be seen as to how we stack up to good teams. We will find that out the second half of the schedule
+1 And that is why I'm personally trying to wait until the season is in the books before making up my mind regarding Caleb, Brax, Odunze etc - and really the coaches and players on both sides of the ball. LOL, but I am not very successful doing that. I go ballistic (both up and down) on every play and every game on these guys. I shouldn't even be allowed to post here for a few days after a Bears loss. Mrs JABF tells me I'm unlivable to be with after a Bears loss... she's right.
Stats are meaningful, but only meaningful in context. Who has Brax faced? Who has Williams faced? Over time the stats even that out since players go against a larger and larger group over time. But even though it has been said many times, it's still worth repeating. For the most part, we have played easy teams. The real tests are still to come. It is obvious there has been improvement. In some cases, significant improvement. It remains to be seen as to how we stack up to good teams. We will find that out the second half of the schedule
+1 And that is why I'm personally trying to wait until the season is in the books before making up my mind regarding Caleb, Brax, Odunze etc - and really the coaches and players on both sides of the ball. LOL, but I am not very successful doing that. I go ballistic (both up and down) on every play and every game on these guys. I shouldn't even be allowed to post here for a few days after a Bears loss. Mrs JABF tells me I'm unlivable to be with after a Bears loss... she's right.
YIKES!!! You might need to look into an extended stay hotel for the second half of the season