Both Poles and Eberflus have made some big mistakes the first two years. Both. They are no longer considered rookies as they enter this 3rd season. I agree we need to see the results on the field this year. But I do understand that Poles and Eberflus - both - will make some mistakes moving forward. The expectation will be that they make fewer, and that they are smaller mistakes - and they don't repeat mistakes. I think that is the reasonable expectation moving forward.
A lot of fans wanted Poles fired and Eberflus fired one year ago. Both. Actually, less than one year ago because it was mid-season. That is looking more and more "meatball-ish" to me now. But time will tell how it pans out in the end.
I have more faith in Poles than Flus. I still think Poles will be at the helm when the Bears start winning playoff games regularly. I don't think Flus will be the HC. He's too conservative, plays not to lose, and I don't think he be able to stop himself when the Bears are up by 2 with 1:45 left, its 3rd-5 at the 40 yard line...he's going to push Waldron to run the ball (other team will call TO) and then punt it away. Thats not a win the game mentality.
Problem I see is that Flus, because the team is winning, is not going to get fired. The Bears will rotate through OCs never hiring the next bright OFF-minded coach because Flus keeps going 10-7 through 12-5 and then losing in the WC round or the division round of the playoffs. This team is set up right now for an OFF-mind to come in explode with these skill position players + Williams.
I'm not worried about Williams adjusting to multiple OCs, Herbert has had like 5 different OCs since he arrived in SD. Its an over blown problem. BUT, an OFF-minded HC would take this team higher than "Don't lose the game" Flus will.
Both Poles and Eberflus have made some big mistakes the first two years. Both. They are no longer considered rookies as they enter this 3rd season. I agree we need to see the results on the field this year. But I do understand that Poles and Eberflus - both - will make some mistakes moving forward. The expectation will be that they make fewer, and that they are smaller mistakes - and they don't repeat mistakes. I think that is the reasonable expectation moving forward.
A lot of fans wanted Poles fired and Eberflus fired one year ago. Both. Actually, less than one year ago because it was mid-season. That is looking more and more "meatball-ish" to me now. But time will tell how it pans out in the end.
I have more faith in Poles than Flus. I still think Poles will be at the helm when the Bears start winning playoff games regularly. I don't think Flus will be the HC. He's too conservative, plays not to lose, and I don't think he be able to stop himself when the Bears are up by 2 with 1:45 left, its 3rd-5 at the 40 yard line...he's going to push Waldron to run the ball (other team will call TO) and then punt it away. Thats not a win the game mentality.
Problem I see is that Flus, because the team is winning, is not going to get fired. The Bears will rotate through OCs never hiring the next bright OFF-minded coach because Flus keeps going 10-7 through 12-5 and then losing in the WC round or the division round of the playoffs. This team is set up right now for an OFF-mind to come in explode with these skill position players + Williams.
I'm not worried about Williams adjusting to multiple OCs, Herbert has had like 5 different OCs since he arrived in SD. Its an over blown problem. BUT, an OFF-minded HC would take this team higher than "Don't lose the game" Flus will.
I'm in that wait and see mode to see what transpires this season. I agree with you that Poles seems to have improved and I'm 100% comfortable with him, even though he has made his share of mistakes (I'm not a happy camper with the OL moves and miscues, but no GM is going to get everything perfect and mistake free. Claypool's and Nate Davis things happen. If Eberflus can turn the corner this year, I have zero problem with a defense guy as HC. The Hall of Fame is full of them, and some of the best in recent years have been (and continue to be) D-guys. Sure, more O guys are having success but that isn't a pre-requisite for being great - even Hall of Fame great. I think every person/situation/team is unique. Just writing off a HC due to his background seems nuts to me. It really does. I'm going to evaluate the individual. And actually, if we do have an elite QB1, then that matters more (infinitely more) than what kind of a background the HC has. Our O head coaches, Marc Trestman and Matt Nagy are poster boys for how O guys fail too. JMO.
I have more faith in Poles than Flus. I still think Poles will be at the helm when the Bears start winning playoff games regularly. I don't think Flus will be the HC. He's too conservative, plays not to lose, and I don't think he be able to stop himself when the Bears are up by 2 with 1:45 left, its 3rd-5 at the 40 yard line...he's going to push Waldron to run the ball (other team will call TO) and then punt it away. Thats not a win the game mentality.
Problem I see is that Flus, because the team is winning, is not going to get fired. The Bears will rotate through OCs never hiring the next bright OFF-minded coach because Flus keeps going 10-7 through 12-5 and then losing in the WC round or the division round of the playoffs. This team is set up right now for an OFF-mind to come in explode with these skill position players + Williams.
I'm not worried about Williams adjusting to multiple OCs, Herbert has had like 5 different OCs since he arrived in SD. Its an over blown problem. BUT, an OFF-minded HC would take this team higher than "Don't lose the game" Flus will.
I'm in that wait and see mode to see what transpires this season. I agree with you that Poles seems to have improved and I'm 100% comfortable with him, even though he has made his share of mistakes (I'm not a happy camper with the OL moves and miscues, but no GM is going to get everything perfect and mistake free. Claypool's and Nate Davis things happen. If Eberflus can turn the corner this year, I have zero problem with a defense guy as HC. The Hall of Fame is full of them, and some of the best in recent years have been (and continue to be) D-guys. Sure, more O guys are having success but that isn't a pre-requisite for being great - even Hall of Fame great. I think every person/situation/team is unique. Just writing off a HC due to his background seems nuts to me. It really does. I'm going to evaluate the individual. And actually, if we do have an elite QB1, then that matters more (infinitely more) than what kind of a background the HC has. Our O head coaches, Marc Trestman and Matt Nagy are poster boys for how O guys fail too. JMO.
I'm not opposed to Flus because he's DEF-minded. HCs can have success no matter what their background is. I'm not high on Flus because he coaches poorly and not to lose when the game is tight. If he can break this habit, and trust his OC+OFF to win and close out games I'll be happy and admit I was wrong.
This is what I fear: Flus/Getsy blew the Denver game and then they both choked away the first Lions game. Then came the Browns game and Flus decided to get risky but still blew it with a terrible playcall in that situation. thats 3 losses, and the only one he's going to remember is the Browns game. He took a chance to close out a game and it backfired. I don't think he has it in him to take another chance.
I think ownership saw Flus as a safe hire after the disaster that was Nagy. (They actually have bounced back and forth with their recent hires. Lovie (DEF) to Trestman (OFF) then back to DEF with Fox, and then to Nagy (OFF). Nagy didn't work so lets go back to DEF-Flus.) From Trestman to Flus seems to me to be a knee-jerk reaction hire each time.
If Williams is the man, than it won't matter--IF Flus can let the OFF play. I just have my doubts based on his history (again, not that he is a former DC) that he can do that.
I think ownership saw Flus as a safe hire after the disaster that was Nagy. (They actually have bounced back and forth with their recent hires. Lovie (DEF) to Trestman (OFF) then back to DEF with Fox, and then to Nagy (OFF). Nagy didn't work so lets go back to DEF-Flus.) From Trestman to Flus seems to me to be a knee-jerk reaction hire each time.
I definitely see all of your points and they are valid. Part of the success equation is to have that elite QB1 on the roster. Then you need a GM who can manage the roster quality within cap constraints. That is huge, especially now that contracts for some key positions are outrageously escalated. We are going to see teams with 50% of their cap sunk into 3 players and the GM will need to complete the other fifty remaining players - with half the money to work with. I definitely agree that Eberflus needs to develop as an HC in this 3rd season. If he does then we have our GM/QB1/HC in place for the next several years of winning. I'm thinking of the great dynasties of the past... that is certainly possible if we have those three factors GM/QB1/HC set with quality guys. That is how sustained success can happen. I think we probably have 2 of the 3 set... and I am so hoping Eberflus proves to be the 3rd for us.
I think ownership saw Flus as a safe hire after the disaster that was Nagy. (They actually have bounced back and forth with their recent hires. Lovie (DEF) to Trestman (OFF) then back to DEF with Fox, and then to Nagy (OFF). Nagy didn't work so lets go back to DEF-Flus.) From Trestman to Flus seems to me to be a knee-jerk reaction hire each time.
I definitely see all of your points and they are valid. Part of the success equation is to have that elite QB1 on the roster. Then you need a GM who can manage the roster quality within cap constraints. That is huge, especially now that contracts for some key positions are outrageously escalated. We are going to see teams with 50% of their cap sunk into 3 players and the GM will need to complete the other fifty remaining players - with half the money to work with. I definitely agree that Eberflus needs to develop as an HC in this 3rd season. If he does then we have our GM/QB1/HC in place for the next several years of winning. I'm thinking of the great dynasties of the past... that is certainly possible if we have those three factors GM/QB1/HC set with quality guys. That is how sustained success can happen. I think we probably have 2 of the 3 set... and I am so hoping Eberflus proves to be the 3rd for us.
I hope so too. If Flus can provide that stability that BB did in NE and that John Harbough and Tomlin do, the Bears can overcome cycling through OCs. We'll see if he can take that next step and be a +HC instead of the -HC he's been (IMO).
Post by bearsinhouston on Aug 14, 2024 18:18:16 GMT -6
Happy with poles, but a little worried about his ingrained tendencies and think he will be a little more erratic after Cunningham leaves. I think more and more Cunningham is his voice of reason and a big part of the brains. Not to say poles is useless without him, but I think as a team, they are VERY successful. I think it will go down a notch but also hope Poles keeps growing in the meantime.
I'm curious to know where you heard (or think) that Cunningham pulls most of the weight in the FO. Only think I've heard is one antedote about Poles musing about a trade and Cunningham talking him down.
I'm curious to know where you heard (or think) that Cunningham pulls most of the weight in the FO. Only think I've heard is one antedote about Poles musing about a trade and Cunningham talking him down.
Not spelled out. But I read that Poles wanted to use a pick to trade up to get Rome, but Cunningham talked him down. And I can't remember what exactly (hell, I can't remember what I did 10 minutes ago), but I remember reading about another instance where Cunninham talked him into or out of a bad move. So no, nothing I heard says he makes most of the moves. Of course, he might, none of us really knows the internal workings, but Poles seems like a take charge confident dude. I imagine he calls the shots. No reason to think otherwise.
Now, that does not mean that Poles does not have good instincts on his own or that Cunninham is the real GM or anything like that at all. But it does tell me that they make a good team bouncing stuff off of each other and that Cunningham has great instincts that have helped Poles in the past. So it tells me that he probably won't be as good without him. That is no way means he will be bad.
I'm curious to know where you heard (or think) that Cunningham pulls most of the weight in the FO. Only think I've heard is one antedote about Poles musing about a trade and Cunningham talking him down.
Not spelled out. But I read that Poles wanted to use a pick to trade up to get Rome, but Cunningham talked him down. And I can't remember what exactly (hell, I can't remember what I did 10 minutes ago), but I remember reading about another instance where Cunninham talked him into or out of a bad move. So no, nothing I heard says he makes most of the moves. Of course, he might, none of us really knows the internal workings, but Poles seems like a take charge confident dude. I imagine he calls the shots. No reason to think otherwise.
Now, that does not mean that Poles does not have good instincts on his own or that Cunninham is the real GM or anything like that at all. But it does tell me that they make a good team bouncing stuff off of each other and that Cunningham has great instincts that have helped Poles in the past. So it tells me that he probably won't be as good without him. That is no way means he will be bad.
I do like that Poles listens to input like this. A lot of big-ego managers don't. You are right about Cunningham being a great asset. Everything I've read about him, for some time now, indicates he's going to have a bright career as a GM. Credit Poles for bringing him here by creating a new job position on the franchise that didn't exist under Pace and the rest. Hopefully they will back-fill the position with an ascending talent when Cunningham is hired away.