Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course

JABF
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 7:09:19 GMT -6 blueshoes and butkus3595 like this

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2016 7:09:19 GMT -6

Dec 21, 2016 21:08:26 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 21, 2016 20:42:53 GMT -6 JABF said:

+1,000 to that one, Soul. We need a rock-solid OC, and have Fox just carry a clipboard on gameday keeping out of everyone's way.

I gotta be honest....I think this is pretty much what happens. You don't hire very good coaches, like Fox has a history of doing, and then micro-manage them.

There are different ways to win in the NFL. The best way is to have a brilliant head coach like a Belichick. The guy knows talent and how to get the right people to play best within the team's schemes - and is a great gameday coach. One other way (not as good, but you can still win a SB with it) is to have a guy like Ditka. Ditka was a guy with solid coordinators (Buddy Ryan and Ed Hughes), and he had a Hall of Fame GM, Jim Finks, the architect of the 1985 Bears team, who fed him so much talent it was almost impossible to lose a game. It was a travesty that Ditka could only win 1 super bowl with all that talent, but he had lost Buddy and Finks and Ditka was a poor gameday coach IMHO. Ditka was an incredible player though (Hall of Fame tight end). And you can prop up a coach like Ditka if everyone else is stellar. Same with Fox, if he has solid coordinators running the team on gameday - and - if Pace can feed him incredible talent.

I do believe Pace is upgrading the talent, and will continue to do so next draft and FA. We have the solid DC. But we need the solid OC. Then, let the "smart guys" run the team on gameday. Let Fox do a "Ditka" and spit, chew gum & scratch his balls on the sideline :-)

Talent + Solid Coordinators, can overcome a mediocre head coach, at least for awhile (until you lose the coordinators):

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Last Edit: Dec 22, 2016 7:12:40 GMT -6 by JABF

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germansbombedph
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 22, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 7:09:19 GMT -6 JABF said:

Dec 21, 2016 21:08:26 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

I gotta be honest....I think this is pretty much what happens. You don't hire very good coaches, like Fox has a history of doing, and then micro-manage them.

Ditka was a guy with solid coordinators (Buddy Ryan and Ed Hughes), and he had a Hall of Fame GM, Jim Finks, the architect of the 1985 Bears team, who fed him so much talent it was almost impossible to lose a game. It was a travesty that Ditka could only win 1 super bowl with all that talent, but he had lost Buddy and Finks and Ditka was a poor gameday coach IMHO. Ditka was an incredible player though (Hall of Fame tight end). And you can prop up a coach like Ditka if everyone else is stellar. Same with Fox, if he has solid coordinators running the team on gameday - and - if Pace can feed him incredible talent.

You are saying if everyone around him does the work, he's a solid HC? That's not why I want my HC to be...

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ptisme Team Captain Posts: 1,019 Likes: 990	Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 8:22:47 GMT -6 via mobile riczaj01 likes this Post by ptisme on Dec 22, 2016 8:22:47 GMT -6 I think you're on the right track. I would get rid of Cutler though. Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top

butkus3595
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 8:34:10 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 22, 2016 8:34:10 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

Dec 22, 2016 7:09:19 GMT -6 JABF said:

Ditka was a guy with solid coordinators (Buddy Ryan and Ed Hughes), and he had a Hall of Fame GM, Jim Finks, the architect of the 1985 Bears team, who fed him so much talent it was almost impossible to lose a game. It was a travesty that Ditka could only win 1 super bowl with all that talent, but he had lost Buddy and Finks and Ditka was a poor gameday coach IMHO. Ditka was an incredible player though (Hall of Fame tight end). And you can prop up a coach like Ditka if everyone else is stellar. Same with Fox, if he has solid coordinators running the team on gameday - and - if Pace can feed him incredible talent.

You are saying if everyone around him does the work, he's a solid HC? That's not why I want my HC to be...

So you want your coach to hire very good coordinators...and then micro manage them? You think thats a recipe for success?

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JABF
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 8:34:57 GMT -6 butkus3595 likes this

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2016 8:34:57 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

Dec 22, 2016 7:09:19 GMT -6 JABF said:

Ditka was a guy with solid coordinators (Buddy Ryan and Ed Hughes), and he had a Hall of Fame GM, Jim Finks, the architect of the 1985 Bears team, who fed him so much talent it was almost impossible to lose a game. It was a travesty that Ditka could only win 1 super bowl with all that talent, but he had lost Buddy and Finks and Ditka was a poor gameday coach IMHO. Ditka was an incredible player though (Hall of Fame tight end). And you can prop up a coach like Ditka if everyone else is stellar. Same with Fox, if he has solid coordinators running the team on gameday - and - if Pace can feed him incredible talent.

You are saying if everyone around him does the work, he's a solid HC? That's not why I want my HC to be...

I agree with you. I would rather have a guy like Belichick or one of the other brilliant head coaches we've seen over the past many many years in the NFL. I guess my point is that we are not totally screwed with John Fox if we have a great GM and coordinators.

1. We may have a solid GM in Pace. It's too early to tell for certain though.
2. We already have the DC in Vic Fangio.
3. We don't have the OC.
4. And we need to have another solid draft and FA. No "reaches" please. Not even for QB.
5. We need to have a more typical injury year too. No more seasons like this with 19 IR players and a small army of other injured players - and 156 roster moves to plug holes.

But I am agreeing with you. We need to upgrade our HC. The key word there is the "upgrade" word. We could just as easily end up in worse shape than we are now. Ignorant fans don't want to believe that can happen. But it can. My hope is that we get a GREAT head coach. Easier said than done though. Not too many young Belichick's out there. Just like there are not too many young Tom Brady's coming out in the draft nowadays.

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Last Edit: Dec 22, 2016 9:11:21 GMT -6 by JABF

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germansbombedph
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 8:39:11 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 22, 2016 8:39:11 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 8:34:57 GMT -6 JABF said:

Dec 22, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

You are saying if everyone around him does the work, he's a solid HC? That's not why I want my HC to be...

I agree with you. I would rather have a guy like Belichick or one of the other brilliant head coaches we've seen over the past many many years in the NFL. I guess my point is that we are not totally screwed with John Fox if we have a great GM and coordinators. I

1. We may have a solid GM in Pace. It's too early to tell for certain though.
2. We already have the DC in Vic Fangio.
3. We don't have the OC.
4. And we need to have another solid draft and FA. No "reaches" please. Not even for QB.
5. We need to have a more typical injury year too. No more seasons like this with 19 IR players and a small army of other injured players - and 156 roster moves to plug holes.

But I am agreeing with you. We need to upgrade our HC. The key word there is the "upgrade" word. We could just as easily end up in worse shape than we are now. Ignorant fans don't want to believe that can happen. But it can. My hope is that we get a GREAT head coach. Easier said than done though. Not too many young Belichick's out there. Just like there are not too many young Tom Brady's coming out in the draft nowadays.

I want the HC our Team Needs and our GM wants, not the guy that was Kind of handed to him.

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germansbombedph
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 8:41:08 GMT -6 riczaj01 likes this

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 22, 2016 8:41:08 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 8:34:10 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 22, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

You are saying if everyone around him does the work, he's a solid HC? That's not why I want my HC to be...

So you want your coach to hire very good coordinators...and then micro manage them? You think thats a recipe for success?

That's not what I said.

I don't want my HC to be the weakest of them all. What if both Coordinators get a new Job and won't be replaced with equally great guys?

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JABF
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 8:47:27 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2016 8:47:27 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 8:39:11 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

Dec 22, 2016 8:34:57 GMT -6 JABF said:

I agree with you. I would rather have a guy like Belichick or one of the other brilliant head coaches we've seen over the past many many years in the NFL. I guess my point is that we are not totally screwed with John Fox if we have a great GM and coordinators. I

1. We may have a solid GM in Pace. It's too early to tell for certain though.
2. We already have the DC in Vic Fangio.
3. We don't have the OC.
4. And we need to have another solid draft and FA. No "reaches" please. Not even for QB.
5. We need to have a more typical injury year too. No more seasons like this with 19 IR players and a small army of other injured players - and 156 roster moves to plug holes.

But I am agreeing with you. We need to upgrade our HC. The key word there is the "upgrade" word. We could just as easily end up in worse shape than we are now. Ignorant fans don't want to believe that can happen. But it can. My hope is that we get a GREAT head coach. Easier said than done though. Not too many young Belichick's out there. Just like there are not too many young Tom Brady's coming out in the draft nowadays.

I want the HC our Team Needs and our GM wants, not the guy that was Kind of handed to him.

We all "want" stuff in life. I "want" the Bears to win this year's Super Bowl. That's not gonna happen. I "want" a great head coach. We all do. I have said it countless times in a number of threads. I would like to see the HC upgraded. But it needs to be an "upgrade" and not just firing John Fox. It's similar to the Bears getting rid of our best players these past two years so we could get younger. I was okay with that. But just shit canning players doesn't mean you get BETTER players to replace them.

I'm hoping Pace truly does end up being a solid GM for us. I think he whiffed on Fox (yes, until I see EVIDENCE to the contrary, I believe Fox was HIS hire). But he's young/new as a GM. Let's see how he does in this coming draft, free-agency & how he upgrades the coaches - not just Fox but the OC position, and hopefully we don't lose Vic Fangio in this process.

This team could get better. But don't kid yourselves things can always get worse. Yes, worse than what we are seeing this season. Just ask the 0-16 Detroit Lions how this can work. It can go from bad to worse pretty easily.

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butkus3595
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 22, 2016 9:09:04 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 22, 2016 9:09:04 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 8:41:08 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

Dec 22, 2016 8:34:10 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

So you want your coach to hire very good coordinators...and then micro manage them? You think thats a recipe for success?

That's not what I said.

I don't want my HC to be the weakest of them all. What if both Coordinators get a new Job and won't be replaced with equally great guys?

What if I walk out of my house and get hit by a bus? We could play the what if game all day long. The bottom line is this, Fox has had success in this league as a DC, that is not debatable. He knows defense as well as the best of them. He has a history of being able to hire very good assistants. That is not debatable. The HC's job is to be an oversee'er of his staff and be the final voice. If you hire qualified people, you let those qualified people do their job and you don't worry whether that makes you look like "the weakest of them all".

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germansbombedph
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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course Dec 23, 2016 0:31:30 GMT -6

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 23, 2016 0:31:30 GMT -6

Dec 22, 2016 9:09:04 GMT -6 butkus3595 said:

Dec 22, 2016 8:41:08 GMT -6 germansbombedph said:

That's not what I said.

I don't want my HC to be the weakest of them all. What if both Coordinators get a new Job and won't be replaced with equally great guys?

What if I walk out of my house and get hit by a bus? We could play the what if game all day long. The bottom line is this, Fox has had success in this league as a DC, that is not debatable. He knows defense as well as the best of them. He has a history of being able to hire very good assistants. That is not debatable. The HC's job is to be an oversee'er of his staff and be the final voice. If you hire qualified people, you let those qualified people do their job and you don't worry whether that makes you look like "the weakest of them all".

Basically, you are saying Loggains is a great OC?

We changed Gase to Loggains and have a much worse Offense on the field. We can't put up Points. You can see a real difference in how the OC handled his Job.

You are saying that all Fox has to do is find the perfect Coordinators and everything is fine with him.

Fox has had success that many years ago that it's not the same as you say a Wade Philips has had success. Fox success was years ago in a much different time 15+ years ago. I don't see why we should be happy with mediocre and average results. That's what happens when you hire a mediocre and average 0.5 Coach.

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Here's a radical idea: Maybe Bears should stay the course

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2016 7:09:19 GMT -6

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 22, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6

Post by ptisme on Dec 22, 2016 8:22:47 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 22, 2016 8:34:10 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2016 8:34:57 GMT -6

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 22, 2016 8:39:11 GMT -6

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 22, 2016 8:41:08 GMT -6

Post by JABF on Dec 22, 2016 8:47:27 GMT -6

Post by butkus3595 on Dec 22, 2016 9:09:04 GMT -6

Post by germansbombedph on Dec 23, 2016 0:31:30 GMT -6